Over the past couple of days the disc release announcement of Avengers: Endgame has suffered media criticism by two reputable online publications, namely The Verge and Forbes.

As correctly pointed out by HTF members on the official Avengers: Endgame BD release thread this week, The Verge has weighed in on its own entertainment pages by telling fans who have yet to see the film to avoid watching Marvel’s promotional video, which includes spoilers revealing “quite literally, the entire film.”

To add insult to injury, John Archer at Forbes mag has pointed out on Wednesday that the 4K Blu-ray disc release will be missing a couple of “key AV features” which are sure to frustrate fans. The first of these is the glaring omission of a dynamic HDR format, such as Dolby Vision or HDR10+, with Disney settling instead for vanilla HDR10. Disney has already included Dolby Vision on previous 4K releases, including Black Panther, so it seems extraordinary that what will almost certainly turn out to be one of the biggest-selling discs of all time will not include the feature. More confusingly, the streaming release of the title will include Dolby Vision support.

Forbes also criticizes Disney’s failure to capitalize on the film’s IMAX source material, or at least providing an option for AV fans to do so. A:E was shot entirely using IMAX cameras, and a petition was even set up last year to ask Disney to make IMAX shots available as an option on disc releases that were captured on the large cinema format. The jump from 2.39:1 to a screen-filling and highly-detailed 16:9 image can be impressive, as proven to be the case exemplified by releases such as Dunkirk. With Avengers having been through-shot with IMAX cameras, surely it would have made sense to put out a separate disc?

 

 

 

 

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Jake Lipson

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It's worth noting that the lack of support for IMAX ratio footage is nothing new. Several of the Marvel films have featured shifting aspect ratios in IMAX and none have been duplicated on their disc counterparts in 2D. (I don't have 3D so can't speak to whether or not any of the 3D discs have contained this feature.) Infinity War was also shot entirely with IMAX cameras and only received a 2.39:1 Blu-ray disc. So while this may be disappointing for some people, it's certainly not without precedent or inconsistent with how Disney has treated these films on disc in the past. What they announced this week is exactly what I was expecting from them to announce.

It's also important to note that all traditional theaters throughout the world screened the movie in 2.39:1, and the Russo brothers knew this was the plan when they were making the film So while 2.39:1 is not the only correct aspect ratio for the film, it is not an inappropriately compromised one either and is a valid way of releasing the film which represents the way that the vast majority of people who saw the movie in theaters experienced the film.

This is not to say that there shouldn't also be a release with the IMAX ratio footage -- I agree that there is value in releasing that -- but releasing it in 2.39:1 is also correct. In effect, the film has two separate and equally valid original theatrical aspect ratios because of the differing presentations in IMAX versus conventional auditoriums.
 
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Paul Hillenbrand

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Isn't there a pattern?
Disney uses high-end technological bells and whistles on media they want consumers to buy.
Blu-ray 3D titles lack ATMOS, and now the latest UHD physical media title lacks DV.
 

Colin Jacobson

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It's worth noting that the lack of support for IMAX ratio footage is nothing new. Several of the Marvel films have featured shifting aspect ratios in IMAX and none have been duplicated on their disc counterparts in 2D. (I don't have 3D so can't speak to whether or not any of the 3D discs have contained this feature.) Infinity War was also shot entirely with IMAX cameras and only received a 2.39:1 Blu-ray disc. So while this may be disappointing for some people, it's certainly not without precedent or inconsistent with how Disney has treated these films on disc in the past. What they announced this week is exactly what I was expecting from them to announce.

It's also important to note that all traditional theaters throughout the world screened the movie in 2.39:1, and the Russo brothers knew this was the plan when they were making the film So while 2.39:1 is not the only correct aspect ratio for the film, it is not an inappropriately compromised one either and is a valid way of releasing the film which represents the way that the vast majority of people who saw the movie in theaters experienced the film.

This is not to say that there shouldn't also be a release with the IMAX ratio footage -- I agree that there is value in releasing that -- but releasing it in 2.39:1 is also correct. In effect, the film has two separate and equally valid original theatrical aspect ratios because of the differing presentations in IMAX versus conventional auditoriums.
It really would be nice if these IMAX-shot movies came out with both versions, and it's not just Disney/Marvel that drops the ball - movies like "Sully" were almost entirely shot IMAX digital but not released that way.

It doesn't seem like it would cost them much to put a second disc in the package with the IMAX version as well - or the non-IMAX in cases like "Aquaman" that do use the alternate ratio...
 

Ethan Riley

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I just think Disney isn't giving full service to the 4k community. We all know the release could be a little bit better. I kinda think they'll revisit this title in a year or two with the alternate cut. Anybody's guess whether they'll address the Dolby situation. Might have been a licensing or cost effectiveness problem with Dolby.
 

dpippel

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Cost effectiveness? This is on it's way to being the highest grossing film of all-time.You'd think that Di$ney would put a little more effort and treasure into making it stand out from the rest of their Marvel releases.
 
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Jake Lipson

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I kinda think they'll revisit this title in a year or two with the alternate cut.
That would be highly unusual for Disney at this point. Double dips on high-profile titles like this have not been Disney's pattern for a while. The last time they double dipped later on a big title was when The Force Awakens and The Jungle Book got released in 3D later than their flat Blu-rays. I really don't think it's very likely that they are holding back the IMAX ratio for a different release. I just think they're going to release it in 2.39:1 and have that be it, which is what they normally do.

We already know that Endgame is going to appear on Disney+ in December. The audience for a double dip releasing after it is already on there included with the cost of people's subscriptions would be very small indeed. I really think they're just going to put it out in August and sell what they will sell and that's it.

Is anyone here who wants the IMAX ratio actually NOT going to buy the 2.39:1 version?

We mentioned in the other thread that digital only bonus features should not exist...but even though they do exist, we still buy the discs. Disney is going to release what they want to release and won't be motivated to change it until they lose a significant chunk of sales -- which they won't. It's going to be what Disney wants to release, and the vast majority of interested fans will take that. I know I will.
 

Adam Lenhardt

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Isn't there a pattern?
Disney uses high-end technological bells and whistles on media they want consumers to buy.
Blu-ray 3D titles lack ATMOS, and now the latest UHD physical media title lacks DV.
The cynical part of me definitely thinks this is the latest strategy to try and swing consumers away from physical media. I think it's a strategic mistake.

Much like Laserdisc during the VHS era, UHD provides studios a niche market where they can get away with charging premium prices for cinephiles willing to pay more for the best possible presentation. Yes, there are production expenses with a UHD physical release that you don't have with a 4K digital copy. But if you can set the MSRP for the UHD disc at $40, while the 4K digital copy sells for $20, the UHD physical release is still going to generate more profits.

But that only works if the UHD physical release has the best possible presentation. When you take steps like not including Dolby Vision, you're killing that premium pricing market.

It really would be nice if these IMAX-shot movies came out with both versions, and it's not just Disney/Marvel that drops the ball - movies like "Sully" were almost entirely shot IMAX digital but not released that way.

It doesn't seem like it would cost them much to put a second disc in the package with the IMAX version as well - or the non-IMAX in cases like "Aquaman" that do use the alternate ratio...
Warner Bros. and Lionsgate are generally really good about including the IMAX version on their home releases -- Sully being an exception for whatever reason. Disney is consistently awful on this point.

And I do think it's a legitimate gripe.
 
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Malcolm R

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The 3D of Guardians of the Galaxy included the different aspect ratios. Captain America: Civil War and Doctor Strange may have, as well (based on info at DVD Compare). I know I have a handful of discs that include this, but I often don't notice it while watching. For some reason, it was quite apparent in GOTG.
 
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Josh Steinberg

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All of the Marvel 3D discs retain the IMAX presentations (for titles that had IMAX enhanced footage) with the notable exception of Infinity War, and, presumably, Endgame.

For many of those titles, the IMAX release was exclusively in 3D, so in those instances, I believe it is proper that the 2D version does not include the enhancements.
 

YANG

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why cant studios stick to consistant aspect ratio?
eversince Transformer 5 with mixed widescreen presentation ratio mix,I had oredi been watching cropped visuals from other movies. M.I.Fallout and Dunkirk are 2 to mention...
 

Robert Crawford

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But that only works if the UHD physical release has the best possible presentation. When you take steps like not including Dolby Vision, you're killing that premium pricing market.
Are they really? How many people are not buying those discs for that reasoning? Most people won't even noticed about the lack of Dolby Vision. Furthermore, those that do buy the disc also get their digital with Dolby Vision.

I hate what the industry is doing with their physical disc releases as well as how they released their titles digitally. Neither home video format is being utilized to its fullest by the industry.
 
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Sean Bryan

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Maybe it’s all a thing of the past, but my impression of Dolby Vision from reading many discussions on various displays over the last year or so is that it can be somewhat problematic.

As HDR displays continue to get brighter and, more importantly, HDR tone mapping gets better and better the “improvement” of Dolby Vision over regular HDR-10 becomes meaningless anyway.

Dolby Vision seems most relevant when looking at displays that do a poor job of tone mapping HDR-10. But tone mapping has improved significantly compared to when UHD TVs first launched.
 

Wayne_j

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why cant studios stick to consistant aspect ratio?
eversince Transformer 5 with mixed widescreen presentation ratio mix,I had oredi been watching cropped visuals from other movies. M.I.Fallout and Dunkirk are 2 to mention...
In this case it would be a consistent aspect ratio. The entire IMAX version of Endgame (as well as Infinity War) was 1.9:1.
 
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