Avengers: Endgame UHD disc release comes under media attack

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Avengers: Endgame disc release comes under media attack
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  1. It's worth noting that the lack of support for IMAX ratio footage is nothing new. Several of the Marvel films have featured shifting aspect ratios in IMAX and none have been duplicated on their disc counterparts in 2D. (I don't have 3D so can't speak to whether or not any of the 3D discs have contained this feature.) Infinity War was also shot entirely with IMAX cameras and only received a 2.39:1 Blu-ray disc. So while this may be disappointing for some people, it's certainly not without precedent or inconsistent with how Disney has treated these films on disc in the past. What they announced this week is exactly what I was expecting from them to announce.

    It's also important to note that all traditional theaters throughout the world screened the movie in 2.39:1, and the Russo brothers knew this was the plan when they were making the film So while 2.39:1 is not the only correct aspect ratio for the film, it is not an inappropriately compromised one either and is a valid way of releasing the film which represents the way that the vast majority of people who saw the movie in theaters experienced the film.

    This is not to say that there shouldn't also be a release with the IMAX ratio footage — I agree that there is value in releasing that — but releasing it in 2.39:1 is also correct. In effect, the film has two separate and equally valid original theatrical aspect ratios because of the differing presentations in IMAX versus conventional auditoriums.

  2. Jake Lipson

    It's worth noting that the lack of support for IMAX ratio footage is nothing new. Several of the Marvel films have featured shifting aspect ratios in IMAX and none have been duplicated on their disc counterparts in 2D. (I don't have 3D so can't speak to whether or not any of the 3D discs have contained this feature.) Infinity War was also shot entirely with IMAX cameras and only received a 2.39:1 Blu-ray disc. So while this may be disappointing for some people, it's certainly not without precedent or inconsistent with how Disney has treated these films on disc in the past. What they announced this week is exactly what I was expecting from them to announce.

    It's also important to note that all traditional theaters throughout the world screened the movie in 2.39:1, and the Russo brothers knew this was the plan when they were making the film So while 2.39:1 is not the only correct aspect ratio for the film, it is not an inappropriately compromised one either and is a valid way of releasing the film which represents the way that the vast majority of people who saw the movie in theaters experienced the film.

    This is not to say that there shouldn't also be a release with the IMAX ratio footage — I agree that there is value in releasing that — but releasing it in 2.39:1 is also correct. In effect, the film has two separate and equally valid original theatrical aspect ratios because of the differing presentations in IMAX versus conventional auditoriums.

    It really would be nice if these IMAX-shot movies came out with both versions, and it's not just Disney/Marvel that drops the ball – movies like "Sully" were almost entirely shot IMAX digital but not released that way.

    It doesn't seem like it would cost them much to put a second disc in the package with the IMAX version as well – or the non-IMAX in cases like "Aquaman" that do use the alternate ratio…

  3. I just think Disney isn't giving full service to the 4k community. We all know the release could be a little bit better. I kinda think they'll revisit this title in a year or two with the alternate cut. Anybody's guess whether they'll address the Dolby situation. Might have been a licensing or cost effectiveness problem with Dolby.

  4. Cost effectiveness? This is on it's way to being the highest grossing film of all-time.You'd think that Di$ney would put a little more effort and treasure into making it stand out from the rest of their Marvel releases.

  5. Ethan Riley

    I kinda think they'll revisit this title in a year or two with the alternate cut.

    That would be highly unusual for Disney at this point. Double dips on high-profile titles like this have not been Disney's pattern for a while. The last time they double dipped later on a big title was when The Force Awakens and The Jungle Book got released in 3D later than their flat Blu-rays. I really don't think it's very likely that they are holding back the IMAX ratio for a different release. I just think they're going to release it in 2.39:1 and have that be it, which is what they normally do.

    We already know that Endgame is going to appear on Disney+ in December. The audience for a double dip releasing after it is already on there included with the cost of people's subscriptions would be very small indeed. I really think they're just going to put it out in August and sell what they will sell and that's it.

    Is anyone here who wants the IMAX ratio actually NOT going to buy the 2.39:1 version?

    We mentioned in the other thread that digital only bonus features should not exist…but even though they do exist, we still buy the discs. Disney is going to release what they want to release and won't be motivated to change it until they lose a significant chunk of sales — which they won't. It's going to be what Disney wants to release, and the vast majority of interested fans will take that. I know I will.

  6. Paul Hillenbrand

    Isn't there a pattern?
    Disney uses high-end technological bells and whistles on media they want consumers to buy.
    Blu-ray 3D titles lack ATMOS, and now the latest UHD physical media title lacks DV.

    The cynical part of me definitely thinks this is the latest strategy to try and swing consumers away from physical media. I think it's a strategic mistake.

    Much like Laserdisc during the VHS era, UHD provides studios a niche market where they can get away with charging premium prices for cinephiles willing to pay more for the best possible presentation. Yes, there are production expenses with a UHD physical release that you don't have with a 4K digital copy. But if you can set the MSRP for the UHD disc at $40, while the 4K digital copy sells for $20, the UHD physical release is still going to generate more profits.

    But that only works if the UHD physical release has the best possible presentation. When you take steps like not including Dolby Vision, you're killing that premium pricing market.

    Colin Jacobson

    It really would be nice if these IMAX-shot movies came out with both versions, and it's not just Disney/Marvel that drops the ball – movies like "Sully" were almost entirely shot IMAX digital but not released that way.

    It doesn't seem like it would cost them much to put a second disc in the package with the IMAX version as well – or the non-IMAX in cases like "Aquaman" that do use the alternate ratio…

    Warner Bros. and Lionsgate are generally really good about including the IMAX version on their home releases — Sully being an exception for whatever reason. Disney is consistently awful on this point.

    And I do think it's a legitimate gripe.

  7. Adam Lenhardt

    Warner Bros. and Lionsgate are generally really good about including the IMAX version on their home releases — Sully being an exception for whatever reason. Disney is consistently awful on this point.

    "Blade Runner 2049" also was an IMAX-shot film from WB that only came out 2.40:1 on BD/4K…

  8. The 3D of Guardians of the Galaxy included the different aspect ratios. Captain America: Civil War and Doctor Strange may have, as well (based on info at DVD Compare). I know I have a handful of discs that include this, but I often don't notice it while watching. For some reason, it was quite apparent in GOTG.

  9. All of the Marvel 3D discs retain the IMAX presentations (for titles that had IMAX enhanced footage) with the notable exception of Infinity War, and, presumably, Endgame.

    For many of those titles, the IMAX release was exclusively in 3D, so in those instances, I believe it is proper that the 2D version does not include the enhancements.

  10. why cant studios stick to consistant aspect ratio?
    eversince Transformer 5 with mixed widescreen presentation ratio mix,I had oredi been watching cropped visuals from other movies. M.I.Fallout and Dunkirk are 2 to mention…

  11. Adam Lenhardt

    But that only works if the UHD physical release has the best possible presentation. When you take steps like not including Dolby Vision, you're killing that premium pricing market.

    Are they really? How many people are not buying those discs for that reasoning? Most people won't even noticed about the lack of Dolby Vision. Furthermore, those that do buy the disc also get their digital with Dolby Vision.

    I hate what the industry is doing with their physical disc releases as well as how they released their titles digitally. Neither home video format is being utilized to its fullest by the industry.

  12. Maybe it’s all a thing of the past, but my impression of Dolby Vision from reading many discussions on various displays over the last year or so is that it can be somewhat problematic.

    As HDR displays continue to get brighter and, more importantly, HDR tone mapping gets better and better the “improvement” of Dolby Vision over regular HDR-10 becomes meaningless anyway.

    Dolby Vision seems most relevant when looking at displays that do a poor job of tone mapping HDR-10. But tone mapping has improved significantly compared to when UHD TVs first launched.

  13. YANG

    why cant studios stick to consistant aspect ratio?
    eversince Transformer 5 with mixed widescreen presentation ratio mix,I had oredi been watching cropped visuals from other movies. M.I.Fallout and Dunkirk are 2 to mention…

    In this case it would be a consistent aspect ratio. The entire IMAX version of Endgame (as well as Infinity War) was 1.9:1.

  14. Sean Bryan

    Maybe it’s all a thing of the past, but my impression of Dolby Vision from reading many discussions on various displays over the last year or so is that it can be somewhat problematic.

    As HDR displays continue to get brighter and, more importantly, HDR tone mapping gets better and better the “improvement” of Dolby Vision over regular HDR-10 becomes meaningless anyway.

    Dolby Vision seems most relevant when looking at displays that do a poor job of tone mapping HDR-10. But tone mapping has improved significantly compared to when UHD TVs first launched.

    Similarly: Projectors don't support Dolby Vision, so I don't care about it being on a disc.

  15. DaveF

    Similarly: Projectors don't support Dolby Vision, so I don't care about it being on a disc.

    Right. I currently use the Panasonic UB820 to handle the HDR tone mapping for my projector.

    I’m waiting to see the price range of the madVR Envy when that becomes available and then I’ll decide if I’m going to shell out for that or build a HTPC with madVR. The benefit of either solution (as well as for those who have the Lumagen Radiance Pro) is dynamic frame by frame tone mapping. So that’ll pretty much be doing what Dolby Vision does, but any display and HDR10 software can take advantage.

    As you said, projectors don’t have Dolby Vision and the chances of it coming to them any time soon seem very small. So DV is irrelevant to projector owners. And most new UHD TVs have good tone mapping now.

  16. Sean Bryan

    I’m waiting to see the price range of the madVR Envy when that becomes available and then I’ll decide if I’m going to shell out for that or build a HTPC with madVR. The benefit of either solution (as well as for those who have the Lumagen Radiance Pro) is dynamic frame by frame tone mapping. So that’ll pretty much be doing what Dolby Vision does, but any display and HDR10 software can take advantage.

    The MadVR solution sounds interesting [some day, right] but why the decided preference for Dolby Vision over HDR10+ or HLG? The former will never be an acceptable solution for projector owners and the latter offers similar specs.

  17. John Dirk

    The MadVR solution sounds interesting [some day, right] but why the decided preference for Dolby Vision over HDR10+ or HLG? The former will never be an acceptable solution for projector owners and the latter offers similar specs.

    Sorry, not sure I follow your question. I have no preference for Dobly Vision. Frame by frame dynamic tone mapping, however, should provide the best results on low luminance displays like projectors.

  18. Todd Erwin

    I've pretty much stopped reading the Forbes author's articles on home video. This article that Martin refers to says the same thing about just about every 4k release from Disney.

    Rephrasing: The author of the Forbes article has said the same thing about just about every 4k release from Disney released after Star Wars: The Last Jedi.

  19. Sean Bryan

    Frame by frame dynamic tone mapping, however, should provide the best results on low luminance displays like projectors.

    Agreed. I was only pointing out the fact that HDR 10+ and DV should offer similar performance, only HDR10+ promises to do it without licencing fees.

  20. This will not be a deal killer on this title for me as long as the transfer is top notch and includes Dolby Atmos. I know the disc will look and sound great even with plain HDR with my Marantz SR-8012, Panasonic UB-9000 and Sony XBR55A9F combo! I agree that Disney should have used the most cutting edge tech but will it really be effected that much quality wise?

  21. I just looked, and my most recent E-Mail with questions about a home video release was Mary Poppins Returns 4K.

    That release is HDR10 only, no dynamic formats.

    So is Captain Marvel. And Dumbo. And every other home video release I checked going back about a year.

    Is there some history that I'm not seeing that would indicate that Disney would implement dynamic HDR on their new releases?

  22. I think "attack" is a little hyperbolic. The release is facing some criticism, with good reason.

    Studios have had the ability to use seamless branching on Blu-ray for years, but few use it. Studios had the ability to use BD-Live, but couldn't figure out how to do something that was truly useful (they seemed stuck in the idea that they needed to create a "portal" which was just a confusing jumble of corporate worthlessness). Even Atmos seems a challenge for them.

    The one thing they really got right was implementing lossless soundtracks. (Although Disney has had an issue with their levels, so there's that)

    The media *should* be encouraging, coercing, and pressuring the studios to do the best possible at every turn. That's their role. They are the voice of the customer; because individuals have no voice that will be heeded. We should always be looking for the best possible outcome, or all we'll get is mediocrity.

    The marketing trailer for the home video release does give away most of the plot of the movie. While that's regrettable, it's certainly not surprising or shocking in any way. The studio is probably making the pretty safe assumption that everyone remotely interested in the movie has seen it at least once, and if they haven't, they've heard about what happens. It would be downright impossible not to know what happens unless one is *very* diligent about avoiding spoilers.

    It's odd that the release should be HDR10 only, and not one of the dynamic formats. That might be an error in the specs that will flesh itself out once the actual release gets in people's hands. I've seen this happen with some of Disney's other releases, where the initial press release didn't even mention HDR (the same applies here, there is no mention of HDR at all), but a quick E-Mail to some people got that straightened out. Maybe they're trying out just using HDR to see if anyone cares? I could see them wanting to step away from Dolby Vision to save money, but who knows??

    The lack of aspect ratio switching is actually good news to me, as I dislike them. My projector doesn't have the ability to mask off the top and bottom, so when I zoom to fill my 2.35:1 screen, the IMAX stuff just looks goofy being projected onto the wall and masking. That's a problem I can fix and I don't expect all the flat-screeners to have any pity on me, but feel free to contribute to my projector upgrade account… 🙂

    If seamless branching isn't an option for some reason, then they could do an extra disc. That is an extra cost, so they have to deal with that, but the studios seem willing to toss in DVD's in many of these releases for some unknown reason so I don't know that that's a big issue. Usability might be an issue, because confused consumers are rampant, and anything that adds to that confusion just isn't worth the hassle. The extra disc weighs more as well, so there are likely shipping issues.

    On top of all this is a definite tendency toward streaming. I hate the thought of a world where I cannot buy movies on physical media any longer, so the further out that future is, the happier I'm going to be.

  23. Sean Bryan

    Maybe it’s all a thing of the past, but my impression of Dolby Vision from reading many discussions on various displays over the last year or so is that it can be somewhat problematic.

    As HDR displays continue to get brighter and, more importantly, HDR tone mapping gets better and better the “improvement” of Dolby Vision over regular HDR-10 becomes meaningless anyway.

    Dolby Vision seems most relevant when looking at displays that do a poor job of tone mapping HDR-10. But tone mapping has improved significantly compared to when UHD TVs first launched.

    Thats one perspective to have, if you want to narrow down the capabilities of Dolby Vision to just being dynamic tone mapping. Dolby is more than its dynamic tone mapping, 10 bit panels benefit from the 12 bit masters, primarily if the disc has the full enhancement layer, that also carries data from the original master. Some displays are not properly set out of the box, with a contrast setting improperly set crushing white above 1000 nits or the display peak of 2000 nits. The ZD9/Z9D clips white in the 4000 nit range. The Z9F clips white above 7000 nits although its peak brightness 1500 nits. The Z9F has a properly set contrast setting.

    Dolby Vision streamed content doesn't use YCbCr color space, high brightness colors exhibit cross talk and posterization, it has Dolby IPT(ICtCp color space), a constant luminance color space specifically designed for HDR.

    Disc content go through a conversion process to take advantage of IPT(Dolby ICtCp color space, not as good as a pure DV stream.

  24. I will be picking up the Avengers: Endgame on 4K UHD Blu-ray but I do wish that Disney had used Dolby Vision instead of standard HDR! My plan is to have Avengers, Iron Man, Captain America, Black Panther, Hulk and Captain Marvel all on 4K UHD Blu-ray. As far as Avengers: Endgame goes I will get the digital DV version via digital code when I buy the disc. Since I own a Sony 4K OLED I would have preferred to have Dolby Vision and would hope someone at Disney is seeing this thread.

    View attachment 60453

    And since there would not be the expense of duplication I wonder if it would be impossible for Disney and other studios to make films available in Auro 3D on digital platforms? Heck this would be a nice option for those with higher end home theaters and there would not be a cost of cranking out physical discs.

  25. My plan is to have every Marvel movie that was available in 3D on 3D Blu ray. Thanks to A.uk, so far, I am successful. Today I got the notice that Captain Marvel 3D is dispatched. Endgame 3D is on pre-order and Spider-Man FFH is pre-ordered from Amazon Germany. Remember only 5 or so years ago when you just strolled over to Best Buy?

  26. Dave Moritz

    I do wish that Disney had used Dolby Vision instead of standard HDR!

    You can see the DV version via streaming. I recommend you compare it with the disk when you get it. I suspect you will not notice any appreciable difference.

  27. I just read a review of Avengers: Endgame on 4K Blu-ray, and was extremely disappointed to discover that the film, while it was shot entirely with IMAX cameras, was finished at only 2K. I understand all the computer CGI that takes time, but this is the biggest-selling movie of all time, and they knew going in that it was going to be among the top, and yet they cheaped out on both money and quality by going 2K.

    I know there will be those who say 4K is just a gimmick and not really noticeable, but that simply isn't true. I know there are those who will say 2K upscaled to 4K is fine and the 4K really isn't necessary, and that not only isn't true, but it's that attitude that allows the studios to continue with this terrible practice, even with their very biggest films.

    I'm sick of the studios continually giving us 2K upscales to 4K, and I'm tired of the reviewers and so-called film buffs continuing to give them a pass.

  28. AcesHighStudios

    I just read a review of Avengers: Endgame on 4K Blu-ray, and was extremely disappointed to discover that the film, while it was shot entirely with IMAX cameras, was finished at only 2K. I understand all the computer CGI that takes time, but this is the biggest-selling movie of all time, and they knew going in that it was going to be among the top, and yet they cheaped out on both money and quality by going 2K.

    I know there will be those who say 4K is just a gimmick and not really noticeable, but that simply isn't true. I know there are those who will say 2K upscaled to 4K is fine and the 4K really isn't necessary, and that not only isn't true, but it's that attitude that allows the studios to continue with this terrible practice, even with their very biggest films.

    I'm sick of the studios continually giving us 2K upscales to 4K, and I'm tired of the reviewers and so-called film buffs continuing to give them a pass.

    If a project is finished in 2k, it doesn’t need a 4k release. Nice, mit HDR / Atmos, but not essential.

    The Blu has 7.1, I believe, while Atmos is only on the 4k.

    No rationale for this, except to push 4k.

    Which leaves non-adopters, who have invested in Atmos out in the cold.

  29. AcesHighStudios

    I'm sick of the studios continually giving us 2K upscales to 4K, and I'm tired of the reviewers and so-called film buffs continuing to give them a pass.

    I agree for the initial master. Once the film is finished in 2K the 4K upscale is the only way to see the 2K at home in "+-full" quality (beyong BD quality). So UHD is the way to go with 2K or 4K originals if best quality at home is one's goal.

  30. I did as I do with all Marvel/Disney products since Thor Ragnarok, pre-order the 3D from Amazon.uk, even before I saw it theatrically.

    I intend to pursue 3D versions as long as they are being put out somewhere, thought I see fewer of these. (The latest Men in Black, and X men discs are only flat.)

    Those of you PO’d by not having the right 4K, or Dolby atmos can feel my pain. Not only was Endgame in IMAX, but it was in 3D as well.

    I hope 4K is as long lasting as people investing in it want it to be, and you are not having to order discs from Britain, Germany, or even Hong Kong as I have had to do, but beware! The home theatre industry is “a very fickle mistress”, always tossing adopters of new formats aside on a whim, and rushing to whatever else is new.

    It is even probably impossible for us to see the difference, but I can see 8K looming over the horizon, at least as a marketing gimmick.

  31. TJPC

    Those of you PO’d by not having the right 4K, or Dolby atmos can feel my pain. Not only was Endgame in IMAX, but it was in 3D as well.

    I can feel your pain, but as far as Endgame is concerned, at least you can BUY the 3D version. Those of us wanting IMAX ratio on the 4K release or Atmos on the Blu-ray are simply out of luck, as neither of them exist in any way, shape, or form.

  32. TonyD

    Still can’t buy it on Amazon.

    I guess they want us to buy it at BB or Target or everywhere else

    Very strange. I'm going to buy this release, but in no hurry so will wait on Black Friday deals. I lost count how many times I watched it in a movie theater.;)

  33. Robert Harris

    If a project is finished in 2k, it doesn’t need a 4k release. Nice, mit HDR / Atmos, but not essential.

    The Blu has 7.1, I believe, while Atmos is only on the 4k.

    No rationale for this, except to push 4k.

    Which leaves non-adopters, who have invested in Atmos out in the cold.

    This is just one of the reasons I loathe to see a studio get so big and swallow up every other studio. What justification do they owe anyone when they don't have any real competition out there? To me this just seems like a passing thought for them to release hoping more people will subscribe to their streaming service in the fall. I had intended on buying the 4k eventually but right now I'm not feeling extremely motivated.

  34. I’ve been on that plan this year too Scott.
    I’ve rented a few from Redbox not Amazon.
    Though I think I do have a few bucks there same as you.

    But these Disney movies just don’t go down.
    Still haven’t picked up Captain Marvel. The 4K disc still hasn’t dipped more then a few pennies lower the $25.

    I ended up getting Black Panther 4k digital from someone in HTF for less then $10 a long time after the disc was released.
    CM still hasn’t been lower then $25 on Vudu.

  35. TonyD

    I’ve been on that plan this year too Scott.
    I’ve rented a few from Redbox not Amazon.
    Though I think I do have a few bucks there same as you.

    But these Disney movies just don’t go down.
    Still haven’t picked up Captain Marvel. The 4K disc still hasn’t dipped more then a few pennies lower the $25.

    I ended up getting Black Panther 4k digital from someone in HTF for less then $10 a long time after the disc was released.
    CM still hasn’t been lower then $25 on Vudu.

    FWIW, I just took a peek at the Disney Movie Club. I added all the catalogue Marvel films coming next week in 4k (Iron Man 1-3 and Thor 1-2) to my cart and applied my VIP offer. The total was $90 plus tax; Endgame will be eligible for the % off before the end of the year (IIRC) and that will reduce the price pretty substantially.

    I know not everyone is a member of the DMC and not everyone wants to be. Just saying that is an option in the long run.

  36. TonyD

    I’ve been on that plan this year too Scott.
    I’ve rented a few from Redbox not Amazon.
    Though I think I do have a few bucks there same as you.

    But these Disney movies just don’t go down.
    Still haven’t picked up Captain Marvel. The 4K disc still hasn’t dipped more then a few pennies lower the $25.

    I ended up getting Black Panther 4k digital from someone in HTF for less then $10 a long time after the disc was released.
    CM still hasn’t been lower then $25 on Vudu.

    Tony,

    I picked up the UHD discs of Black Panther and the 2nd Ant-Man film during the holiday sales last year for about $15 each, so sometimes the Disney / Marvel stuff does drop in price at some point. You are correct, though, that it doesn't happen often or quickly.

    I have not seen Captain Marvel yet, so I may use some Amazon credits on that one, too. However, Endgame is my first priority. I know I have enough credits for one free rental, but not sure about two.

  37. Jason_V

    FWIW, I just took a peek at the Disney Movie Club. I added all the catalogue Marvel films coming next week in 4k (Iron Man 1-3 and Thor 1-2) to my cart and applied my VIP offer. The total was $90 plus tax; Endgame will be eligible for the % off before the end of the year (IIRC) and that will reduce the price pretty substantially.

    I know not everyone is a member of the DMC and not everyone wants to be. Just saying that is an option in the long run.

    Yes, the DMC can be a good deal if you buy enough Disney films. I am not planning on upgrading my BD versions of the Marvel films to UHD, though, and probably will not upgrade very many (if any) of the Pixar films either. I am just buying the new releases of the films I'm interested in on UHD.

  38. Scott Merryfield

    Yes, the DMC can be a good deal if you buy enough Disney films. I am not planning on upgrading my BD versions of the Marvel films to UHD, though, and probably will not upgrade very many (if any) of the Pixar films either. I am just buying the new releases of the films I'm interested in on UHD.

    All fair. It's not for everyone. I long ago fulfilled all my requirements.

  39. They could have also used a BD-100 for this. If the specs on blu-ray.com are correct, the video averages at 36.5 Mbps, which seems like with a 4 – 8 Mbps lossless Atmos track and other language tracks would max out a BD-66. Still, most UHD blu-ray releases are usually at least 50 Mbps on the video, and a BD-100 could have allowed over 60 Mbps.

    Fortunately, the reviews are not mentioning any noticeable compression artifacts. Still, for a release this big from a company with the resources of Disney, there should not have been such compromises.

  40. TonyD

    I am. I still have one more movie to buy so might not have the same discount.

    Here's my advice if you are planning on making a larger group purchase of the 4K items.
    Fulfill your membership with a lower priced item alone first — a 24.95 exclusive (The Black Hole) or even 19.95/21.95 item if one of those is needed ignoring the temptation to add items for 40-50% off at this step

    In about a week after you're upgraded to VIP you'll receive a one-time use bonus offer of B1 G60%off then buy as many of the 4K items in one burst as you can take — this can take you average 4K price down to $14-16each — not as good as a potential $10 Black Friday that some people seem to be counting on, but I just don't remember more than 2 or 3 of those being deep discounted last year. You could fulfill and wait for the next full month B1G60, but I suspect that will be November. If the 50% off TV set deal comes around in Sept again there is possibly a nice little bonus workaround if you need any of their $40+ Tv set that even helps with the B1 at Regular Price part

    Best reports indicate the August offer is B1G50% and non-VIP is 40% off. Black Hole and George of the Jungle are in the mailers, but no mention of the Pixar 4K sets.

  41. I received a review copy in HD Blu-ray, as opposed to 4k.

    While I’m grateful to have received – they’re apparently short of product – I don’t generally review 4k product in standard Blu.

    I was going to make an exception, as this is not a true 4k production, when I noted that they’ve crippled the Blu-rays audio-wise, as Dolby Atmos has been removed from the mix. This is a Blu-ray fail for me.

    Why should those who have made the rather expensive upgrade to Atmos, be forced to view in a non-height format, because they’ve not made the additional expenditure toward 4k player/panel/projector?

    I’m aware that a similar argument can be made for the inclusion of 3D, but that’s a far smaller, albeit, not less passionate audience.

  42. Robert Harris

    I received a review copy in HD Blu-ray, as opposed to 4k.

    While I’m grateful to have received – they’re apparently short of product – I don’t generally review 4k product in standard Blu.

    I was going to make an exception, as this is not a true 4k production, when I noted that they’ve crippled the Blu-rays audio-wise, as Dolby Atmos has been removed from the mix. This is a Blu-ray fail for me.

    Why should those who have made the rather expensive upgrade to Atmos, be forced to view in a non-height format, because they’ve not made the additional expenditure toward 4k player/panel/projector?

    I’m aware that a similar argument can be made for the inclusion of 3D, but that’s a far smaller, albeit, not less passionate audience.

    Right, it's really a shame how the industry has treated its consumer base from different video formats to improved audio codecs.

  43. View attachment 61646 View attachment 61647

    David Norman

    Here's my advice if you are planning on making a larger group purchase of the 4K items.
    Fulfill your membership with a lower priced item alone first — a 24.95 exclusive (The Black Hole) or even 19.95/21.95 item if one of those is needed ignoring the temptation to add items for 40-50% off at this step

    In about a week after you're upgraded to VIP you'll receive a one-time use bonus offer of B1 G60%off then buy as many of the 4K items in one burst as you can take — this can take you average 4K price down to $14-16each — not as good as a potential $10 Black Friday that some people seem to be counting on, but I just don't remember more than 2 or 3 of those being deep discounted last year. You could fulfill and wait for the next full month B1G60, but I suspect that will be November. If the 50% off TV set deal comes around in Sept again there is possibly a nice little bonus workaround if you need any of their $40+ Tv set that even helps with the B1 at Regular Price part

    Best reports indicate the August offer is B1G50% and non-VIP is 40% off. Black Hole and George of the Jungle are in the mailers, but no mention of the Pixar 4K sets.

    These are the options that I have in Offers.
    I put a randomish handful of discs in my cart.
    2 are $14
    1 is full price
    1 is a little cheaper. .

    The 60% offer is the cheapest on these movies.
    I still have one more to buy to complete my membership.

  44. TonyD

    2 are $14
    1 is full price
    1 is a little cheaper. .

    The 60% offer is the cheapest on these movies.
    I still have one more to buy to complete my membership.

    Endgame doesn't qualify for the Discount b/c it's got the temp New Item $5 discount applied and then CATWS since it's more expensive than the discounted Endgame and has to act as your Most Expensive Item so you end up with 2 nondiscounted titles

    I'm a little confused though — if you haven't fulfilled your commitment yet, you shouldn't have a 60% off offer at all plus the Blue banner at the top of the page mentions JUST FOR VIPs ONE TIME OFFER which is the NEW VIP BONUS OFFER and you are eligible for the VIP pin. The site seems to think you are fully vested. What does your commitment status show under MY ACCOUNT PROFILE

    What I'd suggest doing with that specific order would be to do the FT Double Feature with "Endgame 4K +Infinity War 4K for $42," then Winter Soldier would be $14. You'd pay $84+tax and get 5 items instead of $93+tax for 4. Even if you already have Infinity War, you still save $10 AND have a spare item to sell off. If you've already declined the FT you might have to call and have them manually place the order.

  45. Robert Harris

    I received a review copy in HD Blu-ray, as opposed to 4k.

    While I’m grateful to have received – they’re apparently short of product – I don’t generally review 4k product in standard Blu.

    I was going to make an exception, as this is not a true 4k production, when I noted that they’ve crippled the Blu-rays audio-wise, as Dolby Atmos has been removed from the mix. This is a Blu-ray fail for me.

    Why should those who have made the rather expensive upgrade to Atmos, be forced to view in a non-height format, because they’ve not made the additional expenditure toward 4k player/panel/projector?

    I’m aware that a similar argument can be made for the inclusion of 3D, but that’s a far smaller, albeit, not less passionate audience.

    FWIW, I received my BR + Digital today from the Disney Movie Club. As you indicated, it is only DTS-MA, but I was pleasantly surprised to see that the Movies Anywhere code gave me HD video with Atmos Audio. I thought it was an error, but when I played a sample from my Amazon Fire Stick, my AVR (Anthem 720) does indicate Atmos.

    From what I read, Endgame is one of the first MA titles with Atmos.

  46. Going back to the original topic at hand, mostly the idiot at Forbes who wrote the article that prompted this thread:

    He sure likes to pick on Disney for not using DV or HDR10+. But why isn't he picking on Sony or Warner? Both are not consistent with using DV (although Warner uses DV more often lately than not) on their 4K UHD Blu-ray releases.

  47. I purchased the UHD mainly to "future-proof" my ownership of this particular title but I would've been totally content with the Blu-ray edition as I am with UHDs of most movies not shot on actual film. Many of the UHDs I own tend to freeze in spots (Warner titles are especially problematic for me) and I've read that this occurs on this title – something which is obviously highly frustrating. Why is this issue so common on this format?

  48. I just picked up my “limited edition” Best Buy exclusive Steelbook from among an overflowing throng (gaggle? swarm? murder?) of in-store copies that could probably be used to shingle a small house. And the staff was at post-Snap levels, just one dude. All other staff either dusted or outright hiding. Good thing I’m so patient.

  49. My new irritation is that Target didn't allow order online for in-store pickup of this title. Fortunately, the East Greenbush store had plenty of copies of the retailer exclusive UHD release.

    Here's what the Target exclusive looks like, for anybody that's interested:
    View attachment 61786
    View attachment 61785 View attachment 61784
    View attachment 61783
    View attachment 61782

    The Movies Anywhere site appears to be down, so I can't redeem my digital copy. Frustrating, given that there are digital exclusive extras.

  50. John Sparks

    Just received a note from Amazon UK, unknown when the 3D version will be available.

    Update

    Hello,

    Please be advised that we have a revised delivery date for the items you ordered on June 27 2019 (Order #203-8255209-1769168).

    "Avengers: Endgame 3D Includes Bonus Disk [Blu-ray] [2019] [Region Free]"
    Estimated arrival date: September 13 2019 – September 18 2019

  51. Tino

    Update

    Hello,

    Please be advised that we have a revised delivery date for the items you ordered on June 27 2019 (Order #203-8255209-1769168).

    "Avengers: Endgame 3D Includes Bonus Disk [Blu-ray] [2019] [Region Free]"
    Estimated arrival date: September 13 2019 – September 18 2019

    Tino, where did you order from?

    I just recently looked at ordering the 3D from amazon UK but I saw a statement that they could not ship to the US.

  52. I had a number of items on pre-order from Amazon.uk, when the “can’t ship to the US” thingy came up last time. I went to the customer service chat area and was assured that the item would ship to Buffalo, (and it was). The next day I noticed that the “can’t ship …”s were taken off my orders. I have no explanation for this. I do notice that anything I order has been shipped. Sometimes it takes weeks, sometimes right away.

  53. Does anyone notice a playback glitch around the 2m30s mark of the UHD disc? I am running it in the Panasonic DMP-UB900 player. The scene is at the transition of the introduction after the Hawkeye family scene to the Tony Stark tabletop football scene. I am looking for another player to try this but I thought I check here first.

  54. Sean Bryan

    Tino, where did you order from?

    I just recently looked at ordering the 3D from amazon UK but I saw a statement that they could not ship to the US.

    There was a time earlier in the year that AmazonUk had a glitch and all preorders were labelled that way, but it went through the order process without a problem and all those delivered without a problem.

    If you had a 3rd party selected that message sometimes comes up at the address screen and it will not let you past until you delete. Very rarely I've had that pop up with an older title with Amazon the selected seller and it blocks at the address screen. usually a week or two later it goes back to normal.

    For now I cna add Endgame 3D and go through to the last checkout screen without an issue so you may want to try again

  55. Sean Bryan

    Tino, where did you order from?

    I just recently looked at ordering the 3D from amazon UK but I saw a statement that they could not ship to the US.

    Amazon UK as always. Never had an issue.

  56. Watched it last night and really enjoyed it. Infinity War, which is heavy on spectacle, seems to play better on the big screen. Endgame, which is more focused on character work until the final battle, seems to play better at home. Certainly the pacing quirks didn't stand out as much to me.

    As is normal practice for Disney, all of the extras are on the Blu-rays. Only made it through the Stan Lee featurette so far, which has a lot of behind the scenes footage from his various MCU cameos going to back when he played Hugh Hefner in the first Iron Man.

    Ashly Yeo

    Does anyone notice a playback glitch around the 2m30s mark of the UHD disc? I am running it in the Panasonic DMP-UB900 player. The scene is at the transition of the introduction after the Hawkeye family scene to the Tony Stark tabletop football scene. I am looking for another player to try this but I thought I check here first.

    I didn't notice anything.

  57. Ashly Yeo

    Does anyone notice a playback glitch around the 2m30s mark of the UHD disc? I am running it in the Panasonic DMP-UB900 player. The scene is at the transition of the introduction after the Hawkeye family scene to the Tony Stark tabletop football scene. I am looking for another player to try this but I thought I check here first.

    No hiccups here at that point. Panasonic UB9000.

  58. I just watched all the bonus features with exception of the commentary (which, due to the length of the film, will be its own separate sitting.) I really hope the commentary is good because I was underwhelmed otherwise.

    The introduction to the movie on the first disc, which you can select to play at the beginning, includes shots from the end of the film, both finished footage and behind-the-scenes stuff. This seems weird for a movie where avoiding spoilers was a centerpiece of its marketing campaign. I realize of course that so many people saw this in theaters that this isn't much of an issue but it's still weird.

    The Stan Lee tribute with clips of his cameos was very nice. It was a slightly longer version of what I remember from the re-expansion of the film in June.

    But the other featurettes — one each for Iron Man, Captain America, Black Widow, the Russos and the women of the MCU — didn't really add up to a substantial look at the making of the film at all. They basically amounted to the interviewees singing the praises of the actor (or directors, in the case of the Russos) in question, including various clips from other films leading up to Endgame talking about their arc and what great work they've done to bring it to life. It's not that any of this is bad, but it's just fluffy and promotional and doesn't really do anything to expand your appreciation for the movie. In many cases, when they talk about what caused the person to get that job in the first place, they're not even talking about Endgame. For example, talking about Chris Evans being cast and how he was initially hesitant to take the role is about making The First Avenger. It has nothing to do with Endgame specifically.

    The gag reel is cute. The deleted scenes are good inclusions, but they don't have commentary explaining why they were removed, even though the film does have that. They are also incomplete; the deleted scene involving the Hulk saving people from a fire is not included, even though it was made publicly available on the big screen during the re-expansion. Neither is the Katherine Langford deleted scene which has been discussed at length.

    Of course, everything that is here is very consistent with the style of bonus features that Disney has been putting out for a good while so none of this is surprising. It also doesn't feel like all that much more than Infinity War got, so I'm not sure why they made this one a two-disc set without doing more. However, it's still disappointing that the #1 film of all time couldn't get a more comprehensive set of extras. If ever there was a MCU title to go all out for, this one is it. Oh well.

  59. Adam Lenhardt

    I didn't notice anything.

    dpippel

    No hiccups here at that point. Panasonic UB9000.

    Todd Erwin

    No hiccups or stalls for me, either. Sony UBP-X800M2. Review forthcoming….

    Thanks guys. I took it back to Best Buy and they exchanged it without even checking as they have been getting quite a few incidents of discs with playback glitches. The new disc played perfectly.

  60. Jake Lipson

    I just watched all the bonus features with exception of the commentary (which, due to the length of the film, will be its own separate sitting.) I really hope the commentary is good because I was underwhelmed otherwise.

    I agree. There is little to know behind the scenes info on the bonus disc, because most of the featurettes are retrospective looks at the characters who met their ends in this movie, looking back across all of the MCU movies they were featured in. The remaining few are, as you say, "fluffy and promotional" that don't "really do anything to expand your appreciation for the movie."

    The deleted scenes are good inclusions, but they don't have commentary explaining why they were removed, even though the film does have that.

    All of the included deleted scenes felt like they deserved to be deleted.

    However, it's still disappointing that the #1 film of all time couldn't get a more comprehensive set of extras. If ever there was a MCU title to go all out for, this one is it. Oh well.

    Agreed.

  61. Adam Lenhardt

    All of the included deleted scenes felt like they deserved to be deleted.

    Oh, I agree, but it still would have been nice to have commentary on them. The only one that I thought might have been valuable is

    Spoiler

    which was left ambiguous in the film. There was no doubt in my mind about this, but during the theatrical release, one of the writers or directors (I don't remember which one) was being cagey about this, so it's interesting to see that they did in fact film a more definitive version of it. However, the scene itself was not needed.

  62. Can someone explain why Disney only puts the Atmos track on the UHD disc? The UHD disc looks great but being that it was completed in 2K I would have been happy with just the standard blu ray, but it’s only DTS Master Audio. And Disney isn’t the only one who does this.

  63. Brian Husar

    Can someone explain why Disney only puts the Atmos track on the UHD disc? The UHD disc looks great but being that it was completed in 2K I would have been happy with just the standard blu ray, but it’s only DTS Master Audio. And Disney isn’t the only one who does this.

    I could not agree more. I am not 4K yet, nor do I expect to be in the near term, but I do have a 5.1.4 Atmos setup, and it chaps my ass to have to buy a 4K disc to get Atmos. I won't do it with every purchase, but I have on occasion.

    Having said that, if you partake in Movies Anywhere, the code that comes with the standard BluRay of Endgame does redeem with Atmos. Weak sauce, but I am happy to have it.

  64. Brian Husar

    Can someone explain why Disney only puts the Atmos track on the UHD disc?

    Brian Husar

    And Disney isn’t the only one who does this.

    I think you've sort of answered your own question. The studios want you to buy the more expensive disc to get all the features.

  65. The kids and I watched this today. What a treat. It was only my third time seeing it, their second. As for the disc itself, I thought perhaps in the beginning it was a tad dark, but that feeling went away pretty quickly and never occurred to me again. However, refresh my memory for the sequence at the end where the actors' names pop up over their characters – were the images always so stretched? Often it seemed the heads were offscreen. Otherwise, the presentation is flawless.

  66. I was going to order this from Amazon but they are in another dispute with Disney so didn't get it. Instead my friend rented it, and I watched it with him yesterday.

    I'm glad I didn't purchase it. One viewing was plenty. I will never watch it again.

  67. Bryan^H

    I was going to order this from Amazon but they are in another dispute with Disney so didn't get it. Instead my friend rented it, and I watched it with him yesterday.

    I'm glad I didn't purchase it. One viewing was plenty. I will never watch it again.

    To each his own as I simply love this film.

  68. Jake Lipson

    Oh, I agree, but it still would have been nice to have commentary on them. The only one that I thought might have been valuable is

    Spoiler

    which was left ambiguous in the film.

    I definitely wouldn't have minded a quick shot of 2014 Gamora slipping away in the movie, but I'm glad this scene was left out because it was too overwrought.

  69. Adam Lenhardt

    I'm glad this scene was left out because it was too overwrought.

    We're not in the spoilers thread here, but I have a hard time believing anyone who has not seen the film would read five pages into a Blu-ray discussion thread. Still…just in case…

    Spoiler

    That being said, this was a fully complete and scored deleted scene. Seeing it, I'm surprised that Disney didn't opt to screen it during the June re-expansion of the film instead of the unfinished Hulk one. The Hulk one (which incidentally does not appear on the Blu-ray at all and should) was a fun little moment, but since they had a deleted scene that was this polished, you would think they would want to display the most professional-looking footage in a theatrical release setting.

  70. I made it through the Blu-Ray movie disc tonight.

    The intro with the directors was a very odd and potentially catastrophic choice by Disney. While the Russos are talking, the video intercuts with finished shots from the movie and behind the scenes footage. This footage spoils most of the major reveals in the movie, including the climactic moment of the picture and the biggest death in the picture. To do that in a video designed to be watched before the movie really left me scratching my head. Obviously I'd seen the movie in theaters and watched the UHD disc a couple nights ago. But if this were my first time watching the movie, I'd have been really pissed.

    The audio commentary with the directors and screenwriters is easily the most valuable extra in the entire set. It's another masterclass on screenwriting and story construction. I hope whoever picks up the baton for the next Avengers movie, however many years down the road, puts as much thought into every moment as these guys did.

    It also finally answered a major mystery from Infinity War: All of the trailers for that movie included footage of the Hulk in the final battle in Wakanda, but in the movie itself Bruce still couldn't get "the green guy" to come out and fought using Tony's Hulkbuster armor.

    It turns out that until very late in the game, Bruce and the Hulk merged to become Smart Hulk early in the final battle of Infinity War. That was the case well into test screenings. But Smart Hulk didn't play with audiences. There were issues with the test audiences not understanding where Smart Hulk came from, and there were tonal issues with giving Bruce a victory when the rest of the ending is one of abject defeat. So they came up with the idea of Bruce in the Hulkbuster armor, and used Smart Hulk as Bruce's big change during the five year time jump.

    On the other hand, it didn't resolve the controversy of whether Steve Rogers was folded back into the main MCU timeline after he returned the Infinity Stones — so that he was Peggy's secret husband this entire time — or whether he had his life with her in an alternate timeline and only jumped back into the primary timeline at the end to pass on the shield.

  71. UHD stuck in chapters 2 & 19 and then skipped about 30 seconds each time. I hate that they spindled it on top of the bonus features disc and wonder if that caused the problem; I tried it on 2 UHD players, it stuck in the same places in both.
    The blu-ray is fine.

  72. Mark Mayes

    UHD stuck in chapters 2 & 19 and then skipped about 30 seconds each time. I hate that they spindled it on top of the bonus features disc and wonder if that caused the problem; I tried it on 2 UHD players, it stuck in the same places in both.
    The blu-ray is fine.

    I would definitely try exchanging it; I had no issues with my copy.

  73. Mark Mayes

    UHD stuck in chapters 2 & 19 and then skipped about 30 seconds each time. I hate that they spindled it on top of the bonus features disc and wonder if that caused the problem; I tried it on 2 UHD players, it stuck in the same places in both.
    The blu-ray is fine.

    I had a disc with same problem (see post earlier on) and I took it back to Best Buy where I bought it and they exchanged it without even checking it. They claimed there are quite a few discs with the same problem.

  74. This is an interview Marvel recently uploaded to YouTube with Dan DeLeeuw, the visual effects supervisor of the film. He talks about a lot, including the Captain America versus himself scene.

    It is more interesting and substantial than any of the featurettes that made it onto the Blu-ray bonus disc. Why didn't they put more of this on the actual home release?

  75. Bryan^H

    I'm not saying it was a bad movie, it just wasn't for me.

    Fair enough. We disagree on pretty much every point you brought up except for the nice touch you mentioned. But it makes sense why you feel the way you do. Thanks.

    Adam Lenhardt

    The intro with the directors was a very odd and potentially catastrophic choice by Disney.

    Catastrophic how? I completely understand and agree that it was a bizarre and ill-thought-out move, especially for a movie where so much of the advance publicity was about avoiding spoilers. I also think it's strange that the Russos would approve such an intro for this reason. However, I don't see anything catastrophic. If a few people get the movie ruined for them by watching the intro first, they'd be pissed, but I don't think Disney considers that to be a huge problem. You also have to select to play the intro first instead of just playing the movie. It would seem to me the likelihood of a person waiting until disc to check out the movie and also choosing that they want to hear from the directors first is pretty minuscule.

    Even though I saw the movie four times in theaters and know exactly what is coming, when I sit down to watch the movie, I don't want to see scenes from the end of it before I get to the end. So I will never watch the intro again.

    Adam Lenhardt

    The audio commentary with the directors and screenwriters is easily the most valuable extra in the entire set. It's another masterclass on screenwriting and story construction.

    Agreed. I listened to the commentary tonight and it was great. If there was only going to be one substantial making-of supplement on the discs, I'm glad it was this one.

    Honestly, the most shocking thing to me that they said in the entire commentary is that Alan Silvestri has never won an Oscar. Given the significance and breadth of his career, that is just stunning to me. I guess I just assumed he already had one because he should already have one. I do hope he gets nominated for this. I have a feeling the music branch might not be able to resist giving it to John Williams as a sort of capstone award for finishing off his work with the Star Wars saga, and I'm sure that Williams is going to give us a great grand finale there. But Silvestri's work here is extremely deserving for sure.

    Adam Lenhardt

    I hope whoever picks up the baton for the next Avengers movie, however many years down the road, puts as much thought into every moment as these guys did.

    I agree with this, too, but I also hope we don't see another Avengers movie for a long time. I would be absolutely shocked if Marvel permanently retires that name, and I'm not expecting them to do so, but they need to respect that they called this "Endgame." I think that means going back to the patience and restraint that they showed in the Phase 1 films. They took the time to introduce each member of the team individually in other movies so that we already knew them and built up to a point where it was a major event to see them come together for the first time. Because Endgame takes so many major characters off the board, Marvel is going to need to spend the time again to rebuild a new team. I think this can work, but I also think that if they rush back to The Avengers name before they've done the legwork to make us care about the new team, then it would cheapen the significance of The Avengers name and of Marvel's brand. They did it right once. Hopefully they will do it right again.

    Adam Lenhardt

    Smart Hulk as Bruce's big change during the five year time jump.

    This works way better. In addition to being tonally wrong for Infinity War, if Smart Hulk had appeared in that film, then Banner/Hulk would not really have made any significant change in the five-year gap. He would have been essentially the same when we pick up with him in 2023 as when we left him in 2018. Part of the fun of the reintroduction to each character in 2023 is seeing how they are different, and Smart Hulk's reappearance wouldn't have been as effective as him making his first appearance in the 2023 section of the movie.

    Adam Lenhardt

    On the other hand, it didn't resolve the controversy of whether Steve Rogers was folded back into the main MCU timeline after he returned the Infinity Stones — so that he was Peggy's secret husband this entire time — or whether he had his life with her in an alternate timeline and only jumped back into the primary timeline at the end to pass on the shield.

    I suspect it was deliberate not to address that. First of all, we've seen different answers from the Russos and Markus and McFeely in interviews they've done separately, and it would have been awkward for them to work that difference of opinion out while recording a commentary that everyone will hear. But also, and perhaps even more significantly, if they answer this question, it boxes Marvel into what they can and can't do in terms of future storytelling. I don't think it will happen for a while, because the ending was clearly designed to allow Chris Evans to move on, but what if Kevin Feige was able to convince him to come back for one more movie some years down the line?

    There are a lot of interesting possibilities for what you could do with a movie where Steve is once again in the '40s. He is returning to his original time period, but (in a sense) he will still be the man out of time, because he is in the unique position of having been a part of the future. Not only will he know things about future events, and he'd have to decide whether to act on that information or not, but also the cultural norms of today are completely different than they were in the '40s, and he may have a difficult time adjusting backwards. As just one example, Sam Wilson, one of his best friends in the modern day, is a black dude. Steve chose to go back to a time where race relations were very different than they are in the modern era. How does that affect how he behaves in the '40s?

    Any movie about Steve in the '40s at this point would almost certainly have to go into more detail about what the timeline is, so the less they say about the specifics of Steve's situation now, the more wiggle room they have to invent later if such a project were to materialize. I personally think he went to an alternate reality, but I think leaving it non-definitive was the right choice to make. Being 100% clear now means they would be boxed into that answer later. Whether it seems realistic or not, I quite like the idea of maybe seeing Evans reprising this role in the '40s at some point down the line, and I feel like this keeps all their options open to do whatever they think is best for that story, if everyone eventually wants to come back and tell it. I feel like for that to happen, you'd need Evans as well as Markus and McFeely and the Russos (given their extensive histories with this character) to all be on board, and I don't see that happening for a while. But maybe eventually, after having had time away, it could.

  76. At this point, it looks like we're discussing spoilers in the clear. If you haven't seen the movie yet, stop reading now!

    Jake Lipson

    Catastrophic how?

    Given that it's presented as an "intro" to be watched before the movie, I think a certain percentage of the people who skipped it in theaters and are seeing the movie for the first time on home video will watch the intro and get spoiled.

    I've seen probably a couple dozen of these option intros on discs before, and none of them have ever spoiled the movie until this one.

    Honestly, the most shocking thing to me that they said in the entire commentary is that Alan Silvestri has never won an Oscar. Given the significance and breadth of his career, that is just stunning to me. I guess I just assumed he already had one because he should already have one. I do hope he gets nominated for this.

    Rewatching the movie Tuesday night on the UHD disc, Silvestri's score was one of the things that really stood out to me. It's magnificent. And because the movie isn't really an action movie until the third act, he gets to do a lot of things musically that you don't usually get to see in a superhero score.

    One of my few disappointments with the Infinity War score was he didn't incorporate any of the individual superhero themes into the score, aside from a brief bit of Ludwig Göransson's Black Panther theme.

    In Endgame, we got bits of Christophe Beck's Ant-Man theme, Michael Giacchino's Doctor Strange theme, and Pinar Toprak's Captain Marvel theme, as well as Silvestri's own Captain America theme from The First Avenger. And he further develops the themes he introduced in the first Avengers in interesting and often exciting ways.

    This will be hard to top as the musical scoring hightlight of 2019 for me:

    I have a feeling the music branch might not be able to resist giving it to John Williams as a sort of capstone award for finishing off his work with the Star Wars saga, and I'm sure that Williams is going to give us a great grand finale there. But Silvestri's work here is extremely deserving for sure.

    I think in both cases it's going to come down to what percentage of each score is considered original, to determine whether they're even eligible to get nominated.

    Because Endgame takes so many major characters off the board, Marvel is going to need to spend the time again to rebuild a new team. I think this can work, but I also think that if they rush back to The Avengers name before they've done the legwork to make us care about the new team, then it would cheapen the significance of The Avengers name and of Marvel's brand.

    Yes, Warner Bros.'s rush to Justice League should definitely serve as a cautionary tale about the not earning your big event movies.

    Part of the fun of the reintroduction to each character in 2023 is seeing how they are different, and Smart Hulk's reappearance wouldn't have been as effective as him making his first appearance in the 2023 section of the movie.

    Agreed. Five years is a long time in story time — the entire Infinity Saga with the exceptions of Captain America: The First Avenger and Captain Marvel takes place over only nine years. Black Widow is presumably going to take place primarily pre-Snap, and the other movies are presumably going to take place post-Blip. Without audiences living those five years with the characters, the writing really needs to work harder to sell the weight of that time jump.

    I don't think it will happen for a while, because the ending was clearly designed to allow Chris Evans to move on, but what if Kevin Feige was able to convince him to come back for one more movie some years down the line?

    If that happens, I think the timeline where Steve was reunited with Peggy will definitely be an alternate reality, for the same reason that J.J. Abrams introduced the Kelvin reality for his Star Trek reboot: It allows you to play with beloved characters without having to worry about bumping up against the continuity of other films.

    A world where Captain America comes home from the war with knowledge of the main timeline from 2023 is a very different world. Hydra never gets its tentacles into S.H.I.E.L.D. because Cap knows the threat and is there to stop it. Kennedy never gets assassinated, because Cap knows about Lee Harvey Oswald. Maybe the U.S. never enters Vietnam, because Captain America is a beloved national figure, and he warns the politicians that it will end badly and he won't support it. Maybe Steve is in the South, protecting the Freedom Riders in 1961. They could have a lot of fun with alternate history, sort of like Watchmen only in a more utopian direction.

    It also frees him and Peggy up to have children and grandchildren, who might inherit Steve's superhuman physical conditioning. If one of them clicks with audiences, they can have the character jump to the main MCU reality and further the development of the MCU as a multi-generational story.

    Speaking of: I kind of hope Kevin Feige is looking to MC2 as a model for what the MCU can turn into in the coming decades. That imprint envisioned a Marvel universe where time moved in real time from the early eighties, rather than the ever shifting present of the main Earth-616 continuity. You've got Mayday Parker, Peter's daughter, as Spider-Girl; Cassie Lang, Scott's daughter, as Stinger; Shannon Carter, relative of Peggy and Sharon, as American Dream; and so on.

    I'm not saying that they should literally adapt those comics. But the idea of some of the current heroes dying and retiring and a new generation stepping up, living with the legacy (good and bad) of what the earlier heroes have done is something that should be pursued. It's inevitable we'll get more Iron Man and Captain America movies eventually; but I don't want Tony Stark and Steve Rogers recast in twenty years. Instead, have new characters pick up those mantles.

  77. I understand this was shot with a IMAX camera but would like to know if they shot on large format 70mm film or was this shot in a digital format. If it was shot at 4K or 6.5K then why would they use a 2K master to upconvert to 4K blu-ray. If it was shot on large format 70mm film why would they not just scan the movie at 4K and make a master as the 2K special effects are already part of the film image. I already purchased the 4K Blu-ray and it does look good dispite using a 2K upconvert but was this the best way to do it? Isn't there a 4K master of this film and why wouldn't they use that as the master for home video? Since I already own this title on 4K UHD Blu-ray and there are so many other titles to add to my collection. Disney IMHO screwed up not releasing this title with a 4K native transfer and not sure if I will repurchase this down the road or not. Granted Marvel/Disney got there money from me as not only did I get End Game but 10 other Marvel titles on the same day as End Game and all on 4K and 10 out of 11 titles where steelbook editions.

    But the idea of some of the current heroes dying and retiring and a new generation stepping up, living with the legacy (good and bad) of what the earlier heroes have done is something that should be pursued. It's inevitable we'll get more Iron Man and Captain America movies eventually; but I don't want Tony Stark and Steve Rogers recast in twenty years. Instead, have new characters pick up those mantles.

    They definitely set it up with Captain America's character to move forward at the end of End Game with his mantle and shield being passed on to another character. And based on who he passed the shield to I am actually looking forward to the next Captain America! The question is how long will Marvel make us wait to see the next Captain America and do they intend to actually continue? And as far as Iron Man goes I do not see any way to make a legitimate come back for Tony Stark. And that being said who would you use to take up the Iron Man mantle and will fans buy into it?

  78. Dave Moritz

    The question is how long will Marvel make us wait to see the next Captain America and do they intend to actually continue?

    The Falcon and the Winter Soldier will be on Disney+ in 2020 or 2021 (I forget the exact target they announced.) But it's soon.

    Adam Lenhardt

    I think in both cases it's going to come down to what percentage of each score is considered original, to determine whether they're even eligible to get nominated.

    The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi were both ruled eligible and both nominated. I can't imagine that The Rise of Skywalker would be deemed ineligible if those two were allowed in. Endgame is another question because, as you noted, it contains many themes from other films and other composers, but we'll see. I think possibly the even bigger question mark is how willing the Academy will be to embrace Endgame, which is a movie that requires you to see and appreciate 21 other films in order to care about it. Out of those 21 previous films, only Black Panther (which is a relatively standalone entry compared to some of the others) received recognition from the Academy, which means they did not connect to the vast mjaority of the MCU films to date. So, even though I think it's great, I also think the awards prospects for Endgame could very well be nominal, because they won't necessarily be able to appreciate this film on the level that the fans do.

    Adam Lenhardt

    I don't want Tony Stark and Steve Rogers recast in twenty years. Instead, have new characters pick up those mantles.

    There would be no way to recast these characters in a credible way the current MCU timeline. As long as the MCU is still following the canonical line started with the first Iron Man, Tony Stark is going to have to be dead, and Steve Rodgers is going to have to be retired in the "present day" post-Endgame timeline. It would completely undermine the validity of what has happened in this film. If Marvel did a recast of either of those roles at this point, that would essentially have to be a reboot of the entire MCU. I don't think fans would take kindly to that, and I don't think Marvel wants to wipe away what they've done here, either. So I don't see that happening.

    We know that Thor: Love and Thunder will show us Jane Foster acquiring the power of Thor, but presumably she's not going to "replace" Thor, because Thor is who he is and has been throughout the MCU. I think Marvel will be able to see what the response to this is and can use that moving forward to decide if, when and how they want to bring an "Iron Man" back. In the meantime, they've got a deep bench of newer characters; Black Panther and Captain Marvel have both clicked with audiences in a major way and will be around for a long time to come, and they're about to introduce The Eternals and Shang-Chi to the mix, not to mention whatever they do with the inherited Fox properties. So they don't need to do Iron Man again right away necessarily.

  79. Another thing that they talked about on the commentary is that the opening scene of Endgame, featuring Hawkeye and his family, was originally supposed to be in the end of Infinity War after Thanos' snap.

    Of course, we know that Hawkeye was not in Infinity War otherwise at all, so when they decided to hold this scene for Endgame, it removed Jeremy Renner from that film entirely.

    This makes me wonder: was he paid for one film or two films? And even if he was paid for two films, how would his pay for one scene in Infinity War (which ended up getting moved) compare to his pay for Endgame, in which he had a much larger presence?

    Because we don't have access to Disney's accounting, I don't know that there is a way to answer this question, but it's interesting to think about.

  80. I might be in the minority but I don’t care even a little bit if Renner was paid differently, one movie or two movies. Don’t care.

    Adam Lenhardt

    Speaking of: I kind of hope Kevin Feige is looking to MC2 as a model

    What is MC2?

    We watched the 4K disc last night.
    It doesn’t skip and it wasn’t to dark.
    I saw a couple of reviewers say it was dark on their twitter feeds.

    The sound was much better.
    It was louder and “felt” better then the previous batch of 4K Marvel Movies.

    I get that a lot of people pay attention to the score on movies but I’m the opposite for these action based movies.
    I’m just glad if the I don’t even notice the score.

    Anyway I think this movie might break into my top 5 all time favorite movies.

    I love the end with Steve Rogers.
    Seeing him going toe to toe with Thanos and then a few minutes later seeing him as a man who lived a long and apparently fulfilling life is incredible.

    5 stars.

  81. TonyD

    What is MC2?

    Adam Lenhardt

    That imprint envisioned a Marvel universe where time moved in real time from the early eighties, rather than the ever shifting present of the main Earth-616 continuity. You've got Mayday Parker, Peter's daughter, as Spider-Girl; Cassie Lang, Scott's daughter, as Stinger; Shannon Carter, relative of Peggy and Sharon, as American Dream; and so on.

  82. Ok but maybe I’m being a stickler but you posted MC2 like it’s common knowledge.
    I still don’t know what it means and what it’s connection to the movies is.

    Is it a comic book?

    Guesss I’ll google it.

  83. It's a comic book imprint; like Vertigo is to DC Comics. Marvel had an entirely different continuity to tell stories roughly 15 years in the future, by setting the events of the main continuity roughly 15 years in the past.

  84. Not sure exactly where to ask this, and this is probably a question for @David Norman — any idea why it is that for any in stock Blu-ray from Amazon.co.uk, priority shipping to the U.S. is something like 8 pounds, but for the pre-order of Endgame 3D, it's a whopping 14 pounds? I'd actually be willing to pay more to get it sooner but that's ridiculous.

  85. Adam Lenhardt

    It's a comic book imprint; like Vertigo is to DC Comics. Marvel had an entirely different continuity to tell stories roughly 15 years in the future, by setting the events of the main continuity roughly 15 years in the past.

    Ha. I have absolutely no idea what you just said!;)

  86. TonyD

    Josh there’s been something going on at Amazon UK recently With prices bring lower then usual but shipping went through the roof.

    I just tried a mock order and the shipping were the normal rates.

  87. It doesn't make sense to me.

    If I put Avengers Endgame 3D in my cart and go to check out, the regular shipping price is the same as it is for other comparable discs, but the priority shipping is 14 GBP. But when I put in a comparable disc, like Captain Marvel 3D, priority shipping for that title is only 8 GBP. So why does priority shipping for Endgame cost six pounds more than any other disc?

  88. I mean, ultimately, it's not a major issue – I'll simply keep my existing order with the slower shipping at the normal rate. It's just obnoxious because the one time I would have paid extra to get something faster, the amount extra would double the cost of the order and that's not worth it.

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