Any info on STAR! and RYANS DAUGHTER ?

3 Stars

I’m getting a bit worried if these two films are going to make it to bluray this year. I asked Twilight Time about Star! and they had nothing to report. The 50th anniversary is in October. It seems we have be waiting quite a while for RYANS DAUGHTER. Anyone have any positive news?

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62 Comments

  1. Ryan turns 50 in November of 2020.

    Not much public interest in purchasing old films in non-anniversary years.

    Enormous confusion re the recent Sternberg release from Criterion, as many collectors have refused to view those productions with a release date not ending in an 8.

  2. I believe STAR! was not a contender for TT as I too made an inquiry and received feedback a little over a year ago attesting to as much. Not sure who, if any of the third-party distributors, will acquire this deep catalog title any time in the near future. RE: Ryan's Daughter – waaaay back when HD DVD was in competition with Blu-ray in the then 'new' format war, Ryan's Daughter was announced for a release along with Grand Prix and Mutiny on the Bounty. Although these latter two titles did eventually find their way to that now defunct format, and, with the advent of Blu-ray, made the leap to Blu – Ryan's Daughter never materialized on any format other than a deluxe 2-disc DVD.

    It's definitely second-tier David Lean, which means its about 1st tier everybody else. Personally, I have always loved the movie. Great visuals, superb storm sequence and a truly harrowing emasculation of our heroine. Ryan's Daughter's absence on Blu leaves it the only Lean epic MIA from his North American tenure. We are also still waiting for Blu's of Lean's Summertime – the last of his intercontinental 'little gem' period, with Kate the great Hepburn in a truly memorable role. For those interested, Amazon Japan has a bootleg of Summertime currently available with above average (though hardly perfect) image quality.

    There is also a legitimately authored region free release of Lean's Great Expectations from the U.K. What I wouldn't give for Criterion to do another Lean box set from his British period, to include Oliver Twist, Hobson's Choice, Madeleine, The Sound Barrier, and, The Passionate Friends. Lean only made 13 movies in his entire career. Isn't it about time they were all made available to us on home video. PS – for those wondering, the Lean directs Noel Coward box set from Criterion is an absolute 'must have'.

    Bottom line: I adore both STAR! (which I consider a grotesquely underrated musical) and Ryan's Daughter (that most certainly did NOT deserve all the vitriol heaped upon it by the New York critics back in 1970). Will we see either of these on Blu any time soon? Hmmmm.

  3. Nick*Z

    I believe STAR! was not a contender for TT as I too made an inquiry and received feedback a little over a year ago attesting to as much. Not sure who, if any of the third-party distributors, will acquire this deep catalog title any time in the near future. RE: Ryan's Daughter – waaaay back when HD DVD was in competition with Blu-ray in the then 'new' format war, Ryan's Daughter was announced for a release along with Grand Prix and Mutiny on the Bounty. Although these latter two titles did eventually find their way to that now defunct format, and, with the advent of Blu-ray, made the leap to Blu – Ryan's Daughter never materialized on any format other than a deluxe 2-disc DVD.

    It's definitely second-tier David Lean, which means its about 1st tier everybody else. Personally, I have always loved the movie. Great visuals, superb storm sequence and a truly harrowing emasculation of our heroine. Ryan's Daughter's absence on Blu leaves it the only Lean epic MIA from his North American tenure. We are also still waiting for Blu's of Lean's Summertime – the last of his intercontinental 'little gem' period, with Kate the great Hepburn in a truly memorable role. For those interested, Amazon Japan has a bootleg of Summertime currently available with above average (though hardly perfect) image quality.

    There is also a legitimately authored region free release of Lean's Great Expectations from the U.K. What I wouldn't give for Criterion to do another Lean box set from his British period, to include Oliver Twist, Hobson's Choice, Madeleine, The Sound Barrier, and, The Passionate Friends. Lean only made 13 movies in his entire career. Isn't it about time they were all made available to us on home video. PS – for those wondering, the Lean directs Noel Coward box set from Criterion is an absolute 'must have'.

    Bottom line: I adore both STAR! (which I consider a grotesquely underrated musical) and Ryan's Daughter (that most certainly did NOT deserve all the vitriol heaped upon it by the New York critics back in 1970). Will we see either of these on Blu any time soon? Hmmmm.

    We have said repeatedly that TT has this title under license, but that we won't release it until a new transfer is done – and as of this moment, that hasn't happened. That is why we have nothing to report.

  4. Yes, after Criterion's smashing box set of Dietrich/Von Sternberg films, a David Lean set would be most welcome. I recently got the UK version of Great Expectations on Blu, and I am thrilled to have it, but a box with all of the British Lean films that Criterion has issued on DVD over the years would be so welcome.

  5. Nick*Z

    Great visuals, superb storm sequence and a truly harrowing emasculation of our heroine. Ryan's Daughter's…

    This mostly happens off-screen with the camera focused on the reactions of Ryan himself. Nevertheless, I’d assumed the savage public humiliation of his “Daughter” involved the rending of garments and cropping of hair. You seem to suggest that perhaps other valuables were also rent asunder… unless “emasculation” has a different meaning in your part of the world.

  6. RMajidi

    This mostly happens off-screen with the camera focused on the reactions of Ryan himself. Nevertheless, I’d assumed the savage public humiliation of his “Daughter” involved the rending of garments and cropping of hair. You seem to suggest that perhaps other valuables were also rent asunder… unless “emasculation” has a different meaning in your part of the world.

    Websters Dictionary Definition

    e·mas·cu·late
    ēˈmaskyəˌlāt/
    verb

    1. make (a person, idea, or piece of legislation) weaker or less effective.
      "our winner-take-all elections emasculate fringe parties
  7. Nick*Z

    For those interested, Amazon Japan has a bootleg of Summertime

    Tongue-in-cheek ribbing aside, and without wishing to emasculate your point, I would like to query your claim about the Japanese BD of Summertime being a bootleg.

    I own a copy of the Japanese BD of Summertime. It’s been sitting shrink-wrapped in my David Lean collection for some time. Your post prompted me to open it today as I had bought it in good faith that it’s the genuine article.

    It’s a polished package and sports the official Paramount logo on back-cover, disc-imprint and shrink-wrap sticker. It also carries a copyright notice.

    What makes you suppose it’s a bootleg?

  8. RMajidi

    Tongue-in-cheek ribbing aside, and without wishing to emasculate your point, I would like to query your claim about the Japanese BD of Summertime being a bootleg.

    I own a copy of the Japanese BD of Summertime. It’s been sitting shrink-wrapped in my David Lean collection for some time. Your post prompted me to open it today as I had bought it in good faith that it’s the genuine article.

    It’s a polished package and sports the official Paramount logo on back-cover, disc-imprint and shrink-wrap sticker. It also carries a copyright notice.

    What makes you suppose it’s a bootleg?

    A few years ago when Summertime became available ONLY in Japan, seemingly from Paramount, I contacted Paramount in the U.S. with a query about them bringing this deep catalog title also to Blu-ray here in North America, or re-licensing it through Criterion, which they had done for the DVD release. I was informed at the time that no one at Paramount knew of a licensing deal with ANY third-party distributor in Japan or Europe and was instructed that if anyone was advertising the product as such I may consider it illegitimate. The quality on this disc is actually quite good – for a bootleg. But it's not perfect. Nor, if I am to believe Paramount customer service here, is it an authorized copy put out by them. Just because the back jacket and disc have a Paramount mountain stamped on them doesn't mean it came from that studio!

  9. Nick*Z

    A few years ago when Summertime became available ONLY in Japan, seemingly from Paramount, I contacted Paramount in the U.S. with a query about them bringing this deep catalog title also to Blu-ray here in North America, or re-licensing it through Criterion, which they had done for the DVD release. I was informed at the time that no one at Paramount knew of a licensing deal with ANY third-party distributor in Japan or Europe and was instructed that if anyone was advertising the product as such I may consider it illegitimate. The quality on this disc is actually quite good – for a bootleg. But it's not perfect. Nor, if I am to believe Paramount customer service here, is it an authorized copy put out by them. Just because the back jacket and disc have a Paramount mountain stamped on them doesn't mean it came from that studio!

    Appreciated the info – thanks.

    I purchased this in October last year, so it’s well past the window for returns. I’m inclined to set up a dispute for a refund from Amazon Japan, but to do so with confidence, do you recall from how high up the food chain was Paramount’s advice to you?

    If it was via email, then that would be strong evidence; however, if it was via verbal advice of frontline customer service reps, then I wouldn’t feel I’m on safe enough ground arguing the case with Amazon Japan.

  10. Nick*Z

    […]For those interested, Amazon Japan has a bootleg of Summertime currently available with above average (though hardly perfect) image quality.

    PLEASE, Nick*Z, make no allowances nor promotions towards bootleg discs.

    Nick*Z

    […] What I wouldn't give for Criterion to do another Lean box set from his British period, to include Oliver Twist, Hobson's Choice, Madeleine, The Sound Barrier, and, The Passionate Friends.

    With this, I am in full agreement and support.

    Nick*Z

    […]Lean only made 13 movies in his entire career. […]

    Actually, Sir David Lean made 16 films.
    Seventeen, if one were to include his short 40 minute television film from 1979 entitled "Lost and Found: The Story of Cook's Island"

  11. Matt Hough

    Yes, after Criterion's smashing box set of Dietrich/Von Sternberg films, a David Lean set would be most welcome. I recently got the UK version of Great Expectations on Blu, and I am thrilled to have it, but a box with all of the British Lean films that Criterion has issued on DVD over the years would be so welcome.

    And being that Criterion was able to capture 28-29 new-to-BD Bergman titles for their upcoming 39 film boxed-set, then what's a mere 8 more where David Lean is concerned?*

    *Minus the already available "The Bridge on the River Kwai", "Lawrence of Arabia", "Doctor Zhivago", "Passage to India";
    and, of course, Criterion's "David Lean directs Noel Coward" set of four.

  12. Twilight Time

    We have said repeatedly that TT has this title under license, but that we won't release it until a new transfer is done – and as of this moment, that hasn't happened. That is why we have nothing to report.

    From Nicholas the Tsar to Noel and his Star, Twilight Time is where all wishes are made.:)

  13. Will Krupp

    or maybe there's something we don't know about Rosy!!! 😆

    Truly, my best jokes and responses have never been seen on this site for sake of good taste.
    But, Will, the one I've got right now even has me laughing out loud.

  14. PMF

    PLEASE, Nick*Z, make no allowances nor promotions towards bootleg discs.

    With this, I am in full agreement and support.

    Actually, Sir David Lean made 16 films.
    Seventeen, if one were to include his short 40 minute television film from 1979 entitled "Lost and Found: The Story of Cook's Island"

    I stand corrected on the count. But I make 'no allowances' nor 'promotions' of bootlegs. I merely commented on the actual quality of this one. That wasn't an encouragement, endorsement or otherwise 'green light' on my part for everyone to buy it!

  15. PMF

    PLEASE, Nick*Z, make no allowances nor promotions towards bootleg discs.

    With this, I am in full agreement and support.

    Actually, Sir David Lean made 16 films.
    Seventeen, if one were to include his short 40 minute television film from 1979 entitled "Lost and Found: The Story of Cook's Island"

    The version that I have is Story of an Anchor

  16. Nice to see another thread started on "Ryan's Daughter"; if only to show that there are continued interests.

    "Star!" is, of course, another valued topic for the pursuit of 70mm fares put to Blu Ray and/or UHD.

    "Star!" received 7 Oscar nominations.
    Among those numbers included the cinematography of Ernest Laszlo. Mr. Laszlo's body of work included nominations for "Inherit the Wind", "Judgment at Nuremberg", "Logan's Run" and winning for "Ship of Fools". His other 3 nominations proved him to being no stranger to the 70mm format, which included "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World", "Airport" and "Star!"; which is now the only remaining title from this lot that has yet to find its way to Blu Ray.

    Another "Star!" nomination was for the Scoring of Lennie Hayton. No stranger to AMPAS, himself, as his 6 career nominations included "in the Rain" and 2 Oscars wins for his work on "Hello, Dolly!" and "On the Town". Now add to this a "Star!" nomination for Sound and; were this film to benefit in ways that we witnessed with "Doctor Dolittle"; we would fully be in for a treat in all matters concerning both the visual and the audible.

    More Robert Wise, more Julie Andrews, more 70mm!
    "Star!", for what's it's worth, most certainly has my vote.

  17. In regards to the above post; which addresses Lennie Hayton and his 2 Oscar wins for scoring, along with his 6 career nominations; I had discovered a typo-o. The cited nomination written should have read as "Singin' in the Rain". Sorry Lennie.:wave-hello:

  18. Yes, please! Both these films are large format and would look stunning on Blu! I believe they would have a large audience for both and get some commentary on these while the stars are still alive!

  19. Jimbo64
    mBen989

    Does Kino have a deal with Fox?

    Yes

    Actually, Kino has stated that their previous deal with Fox has completed. Any future Fox releases through Kino would only occur after they make a new agreement for a new batch of titles.

  20. Couldn't imagine Kino doing justice to a 70mm source..
    Love their moments, let's say like "Irma la Douce";
    but they are not consistently brilliant like Twilight Time, WAC and Criterion.

  21. PMF

    Couldn't imagine Kino doing justice to a 70mm source..

    Kino, Twilight Time, and all other licensees can only do the best they can with what the rights holder provides them to work with. I think Kino would be fully capable of producing an outstanding release from a 70mm source – but they have be given a master made from a 70mm source in the first place. It's not Kino's fault if the studio won't give them access to a master made from a large format element. And I'm not necessarily sure that a studio is in the wrong if they decide not to spend more than they could possibly recoup by making a new master from a 70mm source if the title is not heavily in demand and if there is not a viable path to recovering that investment. It's always a bummer when that happens to a film you love, but I don't think this is specifically a Kino problem.

  22. Shareholders for both companies have approved the deal. It must now pass through regulatory scrutiny and be approved by the U.S. government before it becomes official. Until then, by law, each company must continue business as usual and may not begin acting as though they are combining.

  23. trajan007

    TT says they have the release rights to STAR! , so I would think it would come from them or nobody.

    Sadly, I fear it will be nobody. Given Disney’s very poor history of restorations/remasters of their catalogue titles (except the animated features), I think any Fox title that wasn’t already finished will not be done at all now. Saddest day for the Fox catalogue was its purchase by Disney. But they did marvelous work while it lasted. We’re blessed to have so many beautiful TT blus of Fox titles.

  24. warnerbro

    Maybe TWILIGHT TIME could pick up these two. They did a stellar job on DOCTOR DOLITTLE.

    Fox paid for Dr. Dolittle being scanned in 8k and then put through a 4k workflow. TT gave us a very nice Blu-ray.

    So this is not to take away from them releasing it for us but on their limited distribution model and with sales of catalog being low across the board a company like TT cannot possibly pay for this kind of work.

  25. Peter Apruzzese

    TT has already stated they have STAR!, but won't be releasing it until Fox supplies them with a new transfer.

    Obviously they don't have Ryan's Daughter, being it's a Warner title.

    It doesn't sound good :-(.

  26. warnerbro

    Maybe TWILIGHT TIME could pick up these two. They did a stellar job on DOCTOR DOLITTLE.

    I feel sorry for any fan of "Doctor Dolittle" who missed out on that fantastic "stellar job", as supplied by Twilight Time.
    "Star!" over "Ryan's Daughter" seems to have its best shot through TT. It's from Fox.
    As for "Ryan's Daughter", I concur with Peter Apruzzese.
    But, hey, I wouldn't grunt or squeak or squawk if talk of TT getting this one also came to be.

  27. Peter Apruzzese

    TT has already stated they have STAR!, but won't be releasing it until Fox supplies them with a new transfer.

    Obviously they don't have Ryan's Daughter, being it's a Warner title.

    Ken Koc

    It doesn't sound good :-(.

    Ken Koc, I wonder why you say this? What's wrong with waiting for a new transfer from Fox? Perfection takes time. And what we saw with "Doctor Dolittle" makes everything else worth waiting for. Both "Doctor Dolittle" and "Star!" are Fox and 70mm. And if we're really fortunate, FotoKem will be at the helm, again. As for "Ryan's Daughter"? It's in safe, skilled and superior hands at WAC. It's just a matter of time; albeit, not at the speed that we, ourselves, would prefer…but, nonetheless, RD's time will come. Chin up, Ken Koc.:cool:

  28. PMF

    Ken Koc, I wonder why you say this? What's wrong with waiting for a new transfer from Fox? Perfection takes time. And what we saw with "Doctor Dolittle" makes everything else worth waiting for. Both "Doctor Dolittle" and "Star!" are Fox and 70mm. And if we're really fortunate, FotoKem will be at the helm, again. As for "Ryan's Daughter"? It's in safe, skilled and superior hands at WAC. It's just a matter of time; albeit, not at the speed that we, ourselves, would prefer…but, nonetheless, RD's time will come. Chin up, Ken Koc.:cool:

    I wish I had your faith that Disney will change its stripes and start paying for these remasters of Fox catalogue titles.

  29. Josh Steinberg

    Shareholders for both companies have approved the deal. It must now pass through regulatory scrutiny and be approved by the U.S. government before it becomes official. Until then, by law, each company must continue business as usual and may not begin acting as though they are combining.

    Is the time-line known for how long this usually takes?
    And is it known if this precludes Fox or FotoKem or any other lab from moving ahead on any of the projects they might have?

  30. JohnMor

    I wish I had your faith that Disney will change its stripes and start paying for these remasters of Fox catalogue titles.

    They might, but they'll probably put them on their streaming service and not release them on disc.

  31. trajan007

    A number of years ago Fox released new 70mm prints of STAR! It seems to me that it wouldn't take alot of money or restoration to produce a bluray.

    No it wouldn't but at least until now this is not how Fox works, they do not produce Blu-rays from 70mm prints.

    I saw one of these prints by the way (were there more than one?) and it was one of the least impressive 65mm 5-perf productions that I have seen.

  32. I love both of these films, but I only got to see STAR! twice in a theater. I memorized the soundtrack recording and played out several LPs. Are any music rights holding it up? You haven’t seen Julie Andrews if you haven’t seen STAR! It contains some of the best ever performances of classic musical songs. I was able to seek out screenings of Ryan’s Daughter and have probably seen it in good 70mm complete road show editions at least 10 times.

  33. I saw Star! at its opening night gala here in Charlotte in December of 1968 (there was a champagne reception after the film; the first time I ever drank champagne), and the Todd-AO print we were shown had already lost two songs ("Someday I'll Find You" and "My Ship") that I was thoroughly familiar with from having memorized the soundtrack LP for months before I saw the movie. I was DEVASTATED. Several months later, when it reappeared as Those Were the Happy Times, I saw it again with even MORE songs gone and a great deal of the continuity missing, too.

    I never saw the entire film until AMC showed it in widescreen decades later on cable TV. Then, Fox issued the laserdisc, and I could revel in it to my heart's content.

  34. Matt Hough

    I saw Star! at its opening night gala here in Charlotte in December of 1968 (there was a champagne reception after the film; the first time I ever drank champagne), and the Todd-AO print we were shown had already lost two songs ("Someday I'll Find You" and "My Ship") that I was thoroughly familiar with from having memorized the soundtrack LP for months before I saw the movie. I was DEVASTATED. Several months later, when it reappeared as Those Were the Happy Times, I saw it again with even MORE songs gone and a great deal of the continuity missing, too.

    I never saw the entire film until AMC showed it in widescreen decades later on cable TV. Then, Fox issued the laserdisc, and I could revel in it to my heart's content.

    Funny, I lived your life concerning Star, but I first saw it at the Capri Theatre in Jackson MS and Those Were The Days at the Kenilworth Theatre in New Orleans. The Laser Disc was and still is the best presentation of the film.

  35. I never saw the “Happy Times..” edit because I refused to see the cut down releases. I’m pretty sure the STAR! I saw in ’68 was fully complete. I had already started listening to the LP and would have noticed any tracks that were missing. I was always comparing the LP soundtrack to what I heard in the theaters, especially in the overtures and main titles. My LD is signed by Robert Wise.

  36. I saw "Star" in 70mm in Toronto at the University Theatre – one of the few places where it ran about 5 months. However, I was surprised that songs were missing and there were pictures in the program (which I still own) of sequences that were not in the film. As we all know they physically cut the 70 mm prints to coincide with the directions from 20th Century. Shows you the skill projectionists at the top theatres had in those days. The "Those Were the Happy Times" cut was terrible – barely made sense and the title in no way related to the film. I never got to see the full cut of the movie until I purchased the DVD. I love Julie Andrews and film musicals and the production values of the movie are great, but to me, as a film, it is not great – the second half drags – although I would still buy it in a heartbeat.

  37. Ken Koc

    Fox made their mind up in '18 to do a restoration that would make STAR pristine…… I can hope.

    Is this insider information or just wishful thinking? Since they did DOLITTLE I don't see why they would not do STAR!

  38. GlennF

    I saw "Star" in 70mm in Toronto at the University Theatre – one of the few places where it ran about 5 months. However, I was surprised that songs were missing and there were pictures in the program (which I still own) of sequences that were not in the film. As we all know they physically cut the 70 mm prints to coincide with the directions from 20th Century. Shows you the skill projectionists at the top theatres had in those days.

    Part of your post reminded me of the time when I was a projectionist back in the '60's. In July 1965 we ran, at the Odeon Theater in Southend-on-Sea, Essex, the Beatles film "HELP!" concurrently with the London premiere release. The film we played with it was "MOZAMBIQUE". We received a letter with it stating that we had been delivered an uncensored print and that we had to make a physical cut according to the BBFC's instructions (British Board of Film Censors) and we also had been provided the BBFC card that we had to attach to the head of reel one. This is the only case that I have encountered where a projectionist was trusted to make the correct edit as it was not checked for the duration of the run.
    I believe this happened to one of Stanley Kubrick's films, possibly "2001", but he had his editor, in this case, Ray Lovejoy go to all the theaters and update the prints.

  39. Matt Hough

    I saw Star! at its opening night gala here in Charlotte in December of 1968 (there was a champagne reception after the film; the first time I ever drank champagne)

    Suddenly, I have images of Charmain Carr.;)

  40. But, seriously, folks…

    It is no tall order that both "Star" and "Ryan's Daughter" are being requested together.
    It is not as if we are asking for one group to work on both films at the same time.
    "Ryan's Daughter" belongs to WAC and "Star!" belongs to Fox.
    Now, let's see which of these two groups will be smart enough to cash-in on all of this free publicity.
    Long live 70mm.:cheers:

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