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Prologic 2


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15 replies to this topic

#1 of 16 SteveBjr

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Posted August 22 2001 - 12:32 PM

Can someone explain or give me a link that specifically explains the difference between PL1 and PL2? I see it mentioned alot but how great is it?

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#2 of 16 Michael Reuben

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Posted August 22 2001 - 04:32 PM

http://www.dolby.com....nersGuide.html
COMPLETE list of my disc reviews.       HTF Rules / 200920102011 Film Lists

#3 of 16 Chuck Kent

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Posted August 22 2001 - 11:06 PM

Steve: Here is a thread where we've been talking about DPL II.

http://www.hometheat..../042470.html#4

I've had DPL II for a week or and it is noticeably better than DPL. The room fills with sound MUCH better.

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[Edited last by Chuck Kent on August 23, 2001 at 06:06 AM]

#4 of 16 SteveBjr

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Posted August 23 2001 - 03:27 AM

Thanks for the tips and emails fellas.

I did a search for Prologic but i guess since i didn't have a space between Pro - Logic it didn't get the other posts Posted Image

Thanks again for all the responses.

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#5 of 16 John Garcia

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Posted August 23 2001 - 03:59 AM

Honestly, I have not been that impressed with it. I gave it a listen for an extended period when I first bought my tuner. While I can definitely hear a difference, I don't feel that the difference is earth shattering. I am even less impressed with DPL II for music. Personally, for music, it sounds nearly identical to DPL I.

It could just be the nature of my receiver (Marantz SR6200), but 2ch Stereo just sounds much better than any of the Pro-logic modes. There is also a 6ch stereo feature that sounds better, as well as CS5.1 or "Circle Surround", which peforms a similar upconvert to DPL II and also sounds superior.

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#6 of 16 Jeremy Anderson

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Posted August 23 2001 - 05:52 AM

I have to disagree with John about the DPL2 Music mode. Original DPL would collapse most everything to the center, which was limited range, making the music sound really dead and lacking any positioning. DPL2 is an absolute revelation in comparison. The full-range center makes a huge difference, but more importantly the positioning of sounds across the front soundstage is far more accurate. I really like how it extracts existing ambience from 2-ch sources without adding any reverb that shouldn't be there (unlike most DSP modes) and expands the soundstage to reach beyond the mains.

After listening to Radiohead's OK COMPUTER and TWILIGHT by The Twilight Singers on my Onkyo 595, I believe DPL2 is about the best pseudo-surround mode I've heard (and I've heard them all). I was able to pick out each instrument's position in 3-d space across the soundstage. DPL2 puts just enough in the surrounds to place instruments between the mains and surrounds in space without making it sound distracting. I was particularly impressed with the way DPL2 handles TWILIGHT (a side project of Afghan Whigs' Greg Dulli), because the album has Dulli singing in the center, Shawn Smith (of the band BRAD) singing in the left channel and Harold Chichester in the right channel. DPL2 accurately places these voices and brings out a clarity of placement that I just don't get with direct stereo.

My home theater use is normally 50% DVD, 50% digital cable, 0% music. Since I got DPL2, it's closer to 50% DVD, 35% digital cable, 15% music. I keep finding myself with the lights off, going through my CD's to hear nuances I've never heard before. But hey... as with anything, your mileage may vary. For me, it's the best thing since sliced bread and indoor plumbing. Posted Image

#7 of 16 Buzz Goddard

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Posted August 23 2001 - 06:46 AM

Nice post Jeremy.
You clearly have listened enough to appreciate the magic it is capable of.
I love what it can do for the front soundstage, particularly center vocalists. The example you gave with three vocals is one I will have to hear for myself.
It sometimes takes a few second to dial in the right settings for a given recording, but once you do, well, it makes two channel sound pretty lame.

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#8 of 16 John Garcia

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Posted August 23 2001 - 07:37 AM

Quote:
The full-range center makes a huge difference, but more importantly the positioning of sounds across the front soundstage is far more accurate. I really like how it extracts existing ambience from 2-ch sources without adding any reverb that shouldn't be there (unlike most DSP modes) and expands the soundstage to reach beyond the mains.

I agree with most of this. Placement and ambiance is vastly improved over DPL. The rears are now much more subtle, almost not noticed until you switch to 2ch. I also agree that front stage is improved across the three speakers without being center heavy. I listened to Sting's Ten Summoner's Tales which always sounded great in DPL, and Eric Clapton: Unplugged, and I still preferred 2ch stereo for overall sound. I also listened to Eagles: Hell Freezes over in both DTS and PCM w/DPL II, and there is no comparison. In particular, comparing it to DTS or DD music (not sure that is fair Posted Image ), DPL II still does not completely impress me.

Having said all that, I am not saying that DPL II is a worthless feature at all. Prior to the 6200, I primarilly listened to much of my music in DPL, and only occasionally listened in 2ch stereo direct (analog bypass) when mood dictated. The 6200 is far superior to my previous receiver, and I can hear much more detail in my music now. This seems to be more true in 2ch stereo, thus that is the format I favor now.

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#9 of 16 Buzz Goddard

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Posted August 23 2001 - 10:31 AM

Interesting.
I have the LD of ten Summoners tales which has the CD mix on it.
I much prefer it in PL II to stereo (and prefer stereo to the original Pro Logic).
I generally like the DTS disc more, although part of that is just overall clarity.
But comparing the DTS disc to the PLII decoded CD is not fair. The improvement of PLII is on legacy recordings. If you have it in discrete, by all means listen to that.
If not PLII does a great job with the vast majority of recordings.

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#10 of 16 DaveF

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Posted August 23 2001 - 10:57 AM

Quote:
I have to disagree with John about the DPL2 Music mode. Original DPL would collapse most everything to the center, which was limited range, making the music sound really dead and lacking any positioning. DPL2 is an absolute revelation in comparison.
I agree 110%! Posted Image

I've been very pleased with DPL2, and find it substantially better than DPL for both music and TV (haven't tried movies yet). I wouldn't consider it better than 2ch stereo, but I do prefer it for casual, background music.

I've also found DPL2 to work wonders for some of my N64 games, Rogue Squadron in particular. Before, there was some weak rear-channel action. Now, I often track (and locate) enemy Tie Fighters sonically. The gameplay has been distinctly improved.

Since DPL2 is just a sound manipulator, not everyone will like its effect, so try it out for yourself. (But I think you'll like it Posted Image)

#11 of 16 Jeremy Anderson

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Posted August 23 2001 - 05:29 PM

If you want a truly impressive demo of DPL2 with movies, check out the current DVD of Tombstone. I know there's a special edition coming later with a 5.1 remix, but the existing Pro-Logic disc is fantastic in DPL2. Specifically, when there's a storm coming in and Virgil gets shot, you can hear the thunder go from the left surround to the right then to the right main.

For an interesting music demo of how well DPL2 places sound across the soundstage, check out Rush's YYZ. It's essentially a long drum solo, but there are several instances of toms that are panned across the front.

No, DPL2 doesn't compare to truly discrete formats (DTS, DD), but then it isn't really meant to. But what it does with 2-channel stuff is pretty damned impressive without seeming gimmicky (as Circle Surround and Logic 7 seem to me). Most importantly, it remains faithful to the source material by not adding to or subtracting from the original mix, and it doesn't use hokey reverb. Should you run out and upgrade if you don't have it? Nah... But if you're looking to buy a new receiver or pre/pro, I'd definitely recommend that you get something with DPL2.

#12 of 16 Mark_Wilson

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Posted August 24 2001 - 02:07 AM

I agree with Jeremy. Its great for older stuff. I've been using it with LDs and lately the first couple of seasons of the X-Files. No going back to regular PL now.

#13 of 16 Burke Strickland

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Posted August 24 2001 - 02:59 AM

quote:
Should you run out and upgrade if you don't have it? Nah... [/quote]Not if that means buying a whole new receiver or pre/pro just for DP II. But if the manufacturer of your existing receiver or pre/pro is offering an inexpensive software upgrade which includes DP II, run, don't walk, :>) to get the upgrade. The DP II: Movies mode is surprisingly effective.

Burke

[Edited last by Burke Strickland on August 24, 2001 at 10:00 AM]

[Edited last by Burke Strickland on August 24, 2001 at 01:55 PM]
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#14 of 16 DaveF

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Posted August 24 2001 - 06:50 AM

Jeremy (and others) - I look forward to trying out the movies and music you suggested. (And as a Rush fan, this will be a good excuse to by the album with YYZ Posted Image )

As others said, I'm impressed by what it /doesn't/ add -- no reverb or metallic ringing so common in older DSP effects.

#15 of 16 Ryan Schnacke

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Posted August 24 2001 - 08:44 AM

I do hear the improvement of DPL2 over the original DPL. And I love having it for my VHS tapes and TV.

For music, I agree that DPL2 is much more balanced across the front 3 speakers than the original. But even with the exact same speakers all the way around I often feel I get a better sound stage in stereo. This is probably similar to the guys who prefer to use a "phantom" center channel for movies and just sit in the sweet spot.

And when I listen to music I am often moving around too much to be even near the center of 5 speakers. My kitchen and breakfast nook are behind my surrounds. Surround just won't work like that.

#16 of 16 Kieran Coghlan

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Posted August 24 2001 - 11:23 AM

A little late in the thead, but this article at Secrets is just about the best explanation of DPL II around. Give it a good read, it's worth it.

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