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Help! sony 4ES decoding problem with DTS-ES.


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#1 of 34 OFFLINE   HaryR

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Posted December 09 2002 - 01:59 AM

Hi Guys, I have a 4ES with a 6.1 set up. I tried to play Gladiator in DTS-ES and I believe it didn't decode the sound properly. It was set up on Normal surround, auto-decoding, and Surround back auto. The screen kept saying "Neo Cinema" which I believe is for DTS-NEo. Could you let me know what to do? I also tried the DTS 6.1 speaker ID test with S&V tune-up disk and it didn't work either as I kept hearing the "right surround", "surround back" "left surround" (all three of them) in the RIGHT AND LEFT SURROUND only! Any help? Thanks, Hary

#2 of 34 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted December 09 2002 - 02:45 AM

Put the 4ES in A.F.D. Seth

#3 of 34 OFFLINE   AaronBatiuk

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Posted December 09 2002 - 03:22 AM

I agree: put the 4ES in AFD (auto-decoding) mode, not "Normal Surround". Also make sure to disconnect the analog audio input coming from the DVD player and/or explicity select the correct digital input using "Input Mode" on the front panel under the volume control. Just in case. Also, make sure that your DVD player is setup to output DTS signals as a DTS data bitstream, rather than decoding them and outputting in 2 channel downmixed PCM mode. Play the dts source, and after the receiver has sat idle for a few seconds (anything on the display disappears and the display returns to 'normal'), twist the jog dial to get information about the current input. Keep spinning it and the display will scroll all kinds of useful information. It should say dts-ES matrix or discrete, 3/3.1 channels (3 front, 3 rear, plus sub), bitrate, fs (sampling frequency), etc.. It should not say PCM. I have tried several dts-ES sources, including DVD's and CD's, matrix and discrete, new and old. e.g.: Sheryl Crow's "Globe Sessions" CD in dts-ES discrete, T2 Ultimate edition in dts-ES matrix (one of the first dts-ES DVD's made), "Studio Voodooo" dts-ES discrete (the DVD-video compatible track on a DVD-Audio disc), etc. etc.. They all work fine. I haven't yet tried Gladiator, but I have a copy at home and will give it a try when I have a chance.

#4 of 34 OFFLINE   HaryR

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Posted December 09 2002 - 03:46 AM

Thanks Aaron. I'll try that tonight, but at first it does seem I have overlooked quite a bit of option set up. Hary

#5 of 34 OFFLINE   HaryR

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Posted December 09 2002 - 11:18 PM

Aaron, It worked exactly as you said. Many thank for your help. Hary

#6 of 34 OFFLINE   Will A

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Posted December 10 2002 - 12:54 PM

There is a malfunction in the DSP firmware on some DVD titles. There is a FLASH upgrade available which is done through the RS232 port on the receiver.

#7 of 34 OFFLINE   Ryan DC

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Posted December 10 2002 - 02:52 PM

Will A, From what I've seen over at avsforum and agoraquest is that the firmware update is for the 5ES and that the 4ES does not not need one.

#8 of 34 OFFLINE   HaryR

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Posted December 11 2002 - 02:48 AM

how about for DD-EX, what should the screen say? I tried Monsters Inc yesterday and my screen kept saying "Dolby digital 3/2.1", even though I had put the SB decoding on "matrix". The surround back was checked on the screen as well, but I thought it would say something specific for DD-EX. Any idea? Hary

#9 of 34 OFFLINE   AaronBatiuk

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Posted December 11 2002 - 03:21 AM

[quote] how about for DD-EX, what should the screen say? [quote] DD-EX is another can of worms entirely. While the flagging acutally works with dts-ES, it do not work quite right with DD. Some decoders (older 5.1 only decoders) would experience problems when trying to play back a DD stream that had the EX flag enabled. So Dobly decided to eliminate the flag. The result? No automatic detection of DD-EX titles! In almost all cases, you have to manually set the surround-back decoder to ON rather than AUTO. This issue is certainly not exclusive to Sony; in fact Sony decoders never experienced the problem which prompted Dolby to pull the flag. IIRC, it was exclusively Denon decoders which had problems with flagged material.

So, since DD-EX material is in almost all cases, not flagged, you need to tell the receiver to do the decoding. You can tell if your 4ES is decoding a surround back channel by looking at the speaker icons in the display: there should be a "SB" (I think) in the centre, under/behind and between the "SL" and "SR". The back speaker/speakers will also be outlined to indicate that they are on. Since the DD data is not flagged as EX, the information will not say "3/3.1", but rather "3/2.1". The little speaker icons will tell you which channels are actually being decoded.

#10 of 34 OFFLINE   Shannon W

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Posted December 11 2002 - 04:57 AM

Will A: Were do you get this FLASH upgrade for the DA4es? also how do you install? thanks Shannon
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#11 of 34 OFFLINE   AaronBatiuk

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Posted December 11 2002 - 07:31 AM

[quote] Were do you get this FLASH upgrade for the DA4es? also how do you install [quote] There is no upgrade for the 4ES. It functions properly WRT dts-ES and DD-EX sources. The upgrade mentioned is for the 5ES, not the 4ES. Will is confused.

#12 of 34 OFFLINE   terence

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Posted December 12 2002 - 12:31 AM

[quote] you have to manually set the surround-back decoder to ON rather than AUTO. [quote]

I know this is not the case on Star Wars II. The 4ES will decode DDEX in Auto mode, also when you put the 4ES in Matrix mode there is sound information not being decoded.

(i.e.) In chapter 28 when Jago is blasting away at Obie litsten to your rear chanels (in my case surround backs) in Matrix mode 1st then switch it back to Auto mode you will here more sound effects in your rears that you did not here in matrix mode. I believe that the Matrix mode must be Sony's Matrix chip decoding because i can not undrestand why there is a differnce between the two.Posted Image

I also would like to know why Sony did not make it where PLII would work w/ any of the DCS EX DSP modes?Posted Image
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#13 of 34 OFFLINE   Greg Schwabacher

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Posted December 12 2002 - 10:26 AM

[quote] I know this is not the case on Star Wars II. The 4ES will decode DDEX in Auto mode, also when you put the 4ES in Matrix mode there is sound information not being decoded. [quote] Uh, are you sure about that? The "SB Decoding" light on my '4ES doesn't illuminate when I set the 6.1 mode to "Auto" with AOTC...I have to set the 6.1 mode to "Matrix" to get the "SB Decoding" light to switch on. I think the reason you hear more when you get the receiver to "Auto" is because the receiver simply sends the side surround signals to the rear surrounds when it's not decoding a surround-back signal.

There are only two DVD's that I know of that will automatically trigger DD-EX decoding -- Jurassic Park III and the French soundtrack of Pearl Harbor (which is an error, anyway). Other than those two discs, you'll have to engage your decoder manually if you want DD-EX decoding.
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#14 of 34 OFFLINE   Will A

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Posted December 12 2002 - 10:34 AM

.[quote]There is no upgrade for the 4ES. It functions properly WRT dts-ES and DD-EX sources. The upgrade mentioned is for the 5ES, not the 4ES. Will is confused. /QUOTE]

No I am not confused.
The flash upgrade is for the following:
STRDA5ES all units.
STRDA4ES S/N8800001 through S/N8805418.
STRDA7ES S/N8800001 through S/N8802514.

#15 of 34 OFFLINE   Ryan DC

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Posted December 12 2002 - 12:08 PM

Will A, Thank you posting that info! Where did you find that? Also how do you go about getting this update?

#16 of 34 OFFLINE   Andrew Pierce

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Posted December 13 2002 - 02:08 AM

Maybe you can download it from Sony's STR-DA4ES page on their website. Posted Image

#17 of 34 OFFLINE   Ryan DC

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Posted December 13 2002 - 03:51 AM

Andrew I wish it were that easy! I would much rather do it myself than leave it with a repair shop and possibly come back screwed in some way.

#18 of 34 OFFLINE   Greg Schwabacher

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Posted December 13 2002 - 09:09 AM

[quote] No I am not confused.
The flash upgrade is for the following:
STRDA5ES all units.
STRDA4ES S/N8800001 through S/N8805418.
STRDA7ES S/N8800001 through S/N8802514.
[quote]
Dang! My DA4ES' series number falls within that range (strange, because I got it only a month ago)! Any idea what the flash upgrade is supposed to do? My receiver works fine with respect to DD-EX/DTS-ES...
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#19 of 34 OFFLINE   Andrew Pierce

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Posted December 13 2002 - 09:19 AM

Ryan, my point is that judging from Sony's website, the DA4ES doesn't exist. Or for that matter, neither does the 1ES, 2ES, or 7ES...

#20 of 34 OFFLINE   Zack_R

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Posted December 13 2002 - 11:30 AM

I have the 4ES and really like it. It has plenty of features for me and plays loud and clean to my ears. I've got a 7.1 speaker set-up. My questions with regard to processing modes is this: The manual states that in order to hear Dolby Digital as it was intended by the Sound engineer you should turn on dynamic compression and set it to the standard setting (1.0 I think). Do any of you guys do this? The only reason I can see for a sound engineer compressing the dynamics would be to enusre the sound does not boost beyond the +10db LFE requirement. You'd think if he did the job right this wouldn't be necessary though. Also, the DA4ES states that the cinema ex modes uses dolby prologic so I don't think it was an oversight in the software department that Sony chose not to enable users to apply the enhancments to other 2 channel encoding formats. If you don't like the sound of the rears when using cinema ex modes with pro-logic, you might try turning off the rear processing effect. You'll still get screen depth and virtual speakers but it may eliviate any sound issues it creates with pro-logic from the rear. The manual also indicates that cinema ex modes are for mulit-channel formats. Where these modes really shine to me is with DTS and Dolby Digital sources. I think I like the Cinema B setting myself as it makes a pleasing difference to my ears. Although, DD and DTS sound great on their own.




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