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Sopranos Season 4 Review and Discussion Thread Shows 1-12

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#41 of 910 OFFLINE   Steve Tannehill

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Posted September 16 2002 - 09:26 AM

Did everyone notice the twin towers were no longer in the main title sequence?

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#42 of 910 OFFLINE   Steven Simon

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Posted September 16 2002 - 10:38 AM


It has been known for a while that they were taking them out.....
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#43 of 910 OFFLINE   Pete M

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Posted September 16 2002 - 11:32 AM

It has been known for a while that they were taking them out.....
Actually, I heard on one of the entertainment shows (EW??) that they were still deciding up until a week or two ago whether they would leave them in or not. Obviously they could be wrong, though.

#44 of 910 OFFLINE   David Sim

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Posted September 16 2002 - 11:41 AM

I don't think Bobby Bacala is as dumb as he lets on.
In season 2 when Tony makes fun of his weight he stands there with his trademark dumb look until Tony is out of earshot - then he says "maybe you should look in a mirror you fat f**k".
I think because he is being portrayed as so dumb he will surprise everyone.

Danielle is so obvious about her snooping that she will be discovered right away IMO. For some reason I don't think she will be killed.

I think Johnnie Sack moving to NJ is part of a long time plan by the NY family to oust Tony. They think he is incapable and want to take over his turf. Sack is making it obvious by coddling Paulie and slowly undermining the loyalty he had for Tony. Tony would never listen to another family's captain's complaints about another boss much less instigate them.

It is going to be a good season. I think Tony will become more powerful after this year. Or maybe I am completely wrong
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#45 of 910 OFFLINE   Geno


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Posted September 16 2002 - 12:12 PM

well Im a bit confused. but its all my fault. I was trying to watch my friends firs/seconnd/third seasons before last night but couldnt find the time. so Ive got to huury and watch what I can. anyway...

Adriana [Drea]is looking better and better and better and better and better and, fogetaboutit Posted Image

I agree with Patrick, Ralphies rear was not needed.

all in all I liked it, what was up with a Boss not being able to wear shorts? The old ways vs the new I guess.

cannot wait for next sunday

#46 of 910 OFFLINE   Jack Gilvey

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Posted September 16 2002 - 12:14 PM

Wow, Jack. I remember saying to my wife when that scene showed up, "that is such an obvious 'Photoshop' type effect covering up the actual stores". Are the signs actually in that ugly green color?

It's a standard ugly Jersey mini-strip-mall. :b I actually was at the bank this morning and walked around to take a look. They had moved the restaurant sign over to the right to get it in the shot, but that's the way they look. That was a real Hooters, also, that Tony and Christopher were parked across the street from. Don't ask. Posted Image I couldn't place that diner, though.
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#47 of 910 OFFLINE   RobertW


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Posted September 16 2002 - 12:14 PM

the baby thing really messes with any timeline. i can't recall how old the baby looked, but not too old, maybe four or five months. if she had the baby before going undercover it doesn't make sense, as the baby would have probably been fairly newborn, and she'd be on maternity leave. if the baby was any older at the time, he'd probably be walking by now.

if only six months have gone by, then she was pregnant when she first went undercover, and the baby would be only a month or two old, and there's no way she'd leave her baby to infiltrate the mob at that age.

#48 of 910 OFFLINE   Wayne Bundrick

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Posted September 16 2002 - 12:34 PM

I was also wondering about the timeline. When season 3 ended, it was end of winter/beginning of spring. There were a couple of things that gave away the timeline:

- Meadow needing to go online with Carm and register for classes means, I would guess, it's getting close to Fall semester. Then she said she would miss dinner because of a 'back-to-school' party. And in the preview for next week they say Meadow might take a year off and go abroad instead.
- AJ's school only being 5-days old. (Whatever school he's at)
- The bird seed being bought in the 'wrong season' according to Carm and the sales guy. (Meaning late summer/early fall)

So.... my guess is the timeline is last night's episode was last September '01. Season 3 ended Feb/March 2001, and now we jumped ahead 6 months. Meadow is about to be a Sophomore at Columbia, and AJ is a Sophomre in high school.

As for Danielle, it is very shoddy with the plotline. Either Adrianna knows she had a baby, or she was an extremely fit pregnant woman.

As for 9/11, the show would be taking place right around when it would've happened, but I'm sure the writers didn't want to get involved too much. A simple reference by Tony was probably all they wanted to do to acknowledge it.

I agree with all of this except for the baby part.

There's more evidence in the last few episodes of Season 3 to indicate that it ended in the middle of winter or early spring. Consider the snow in the Pine Barrens episode. And when Jackie Jr. was shot, he went down in a small patch of snow. There were references to the Superbowl and its associated gambling; I recall from having recently viewed Season 3 on DVD that Sylvio was arrested at Jackie Jr's funeral service and he said something like "they do this every year at Superbowl time for the publicity". So we're talking about February 2001.

Season 4 seems to have begun within a few weeks after September 11, 2001. This means it's been just six months between seasons.

I think this is plenty of time for Agent Debbie ("Danielle") to have become chummy with Adriana. A couple of "chance" meetings at the mall (the first of which we saw in Season 3, indeed we saw it with Fairuza Balk playing that part) and some falsified "common interests" (starting with fashion, as we saw) would be all it takes.

Is it possible that Debbie's baby is more than six months old? She may have already had the baby at the time she was assigned to become Adriana's "new best friend". But I'm no good at judging a baby's age.
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#49 of 910 OFFLINE   Walt O

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Posted September 16 2002 - 12:41 PM

One thing I took differently than the initial poster. He metions this scene:

Most importantly, the New York boss is not happy with Tony Soprano, commenting on his dress code.... This is for sure to be the first of many problems coming from the NY Family.

Was he talking about Tony's clothes? I thought he was warning Tony that the guy who is moving in on tony's area "doesn't wear shorts," implying that when he was at the Bar B Q, he was doing it for the purposes of checking things out for an eventual takeover. Maybe I'm wrong, it's been so long since season 3 and I don't remember all the minor characters

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#50 of 910 OFFLINE   David Sim

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Posted September 16 2002 - 02:51 PM

He was definitely telling Tony that a don - meaning Tony - does not wear shorts.

#51 of 910 OFFLINE   Colin-H


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Posted September 16 2002 - 02:59 PM

Right now, I'm watching the episode for the third time. Here are my thoughts....

The thing with Adriana and the FBI agent seems believable to me. I mean, think about it... have we ever seen her with any friends? Never. It's always with the mob wives. I think she'd be quick to embrace a new friend her own age and style.

Dr. Schreck definitely seems a bit too curious about what goes on with Uncle Junior, but remember how Dr. Cusimano and his friends acted around Tony? I don't think they're trying to switch it up on us here... unless somehow Schreck got into some trouble of his own and needs to buy his way out of jail. That's the only way I'd believe it.

I have a feeling we're going to get a lot about Christopher's drug problem this season. It's going to be another situation like with the screen writing. Tony will give Christopher an ultimatum: get off the drugs, or you're out... and remember, there's only one way out.

Maybe Carmela is finally going to abandon some of her complacence and become a more powerful figure on her own. Maybe, finally, the hints of power she's showed (remember when she threatened Jeanne Cusimano's sister in season 2?) will become dominant.

I haven't decided on the two kids yet. Meadow is obviously having second thoughts about the college thing, but why? From the previews, it seems like this will be a major story line next episode. It's just the same old same old with AJ. Something big needs to happen if he's going to snap out of his slacker lifestyle.

We haven't seen enough of Melfi to know what's going to happen with her, but it seems like the brick wall between her and Tony's business endeavors is crumbling. Will she be able to keep herself professionally separated? Will Tony give her information she's obligated to tell the authorities?

The whole chronology thing is confusing me, too. Meadow would've started school at Columbia in early September, about a week and a half before the 11th. Why is she still home and registering for classes? If, though, we suspend disbelief a little and assume that AJ started school in the last week in August or first week of September, 5 weeks after that would put us in the first week of October.

I don't know what to expect with the whole Uncle June trial situations. It could get stressful if evidence starts cropping up against Tony. Could Uncle June get pissed that Tony screwed him when he bought the Tribeca garage and testify against Tony?

I think loyalty, in the end, will overcome Paulie, and he'll come back to the Soprano crew. I can't imagine season 5 without him.

I just saw the "A don doesn't wear shorts" scene again, and I'm still not sure how to interpret that line. Johnny Sack is standing right behind Carmine, so the "he's trying to tell Tony that he was staking out the NJ situation for a takeover" interpretation doesn't seem to make sense. I think, maybe, Carmine is subtly voicing his disgust with Tony's performance as boss. Remember that when Paulie was talking with Johnny Sack in season 3, John mentioned that Carmine was displeased with Tony as well.

Some wild guesses and stupid predictions:

Either Christopher or Silvio was flipped. Remember when they were led off in handcuffs at the end of season 3? Maybe they didn't just beat it.

I have a feeling Christopher might feel some heat for the cop killing. He tried to cover it up, but his prints have to be somewhere. On the gun, the coffee table, the TV... he touched so much. It was humor when he shot the sword off the fish, though. (The cop he whacks reminds me of Davey Scatino... his voice and all the whining and whatnot.)

The allure of the bad boy is too tempting for Danielle, and she is forced into a sexual ultimatum with Tony. Either she does it, and compromises her job, or she doesn't and gives herself away.

Janice whacks Ralphie. Who'd expect that one? Haha.

Or how about this: Rosalie finds out Richie is sleeping with Janice and kills Janice (maybe Ralphie, too) and then herself.

Bobby Bacala is going down... probably from his own incompetence.
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#52 of 910 OFFLINE   David Sim

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Posted September 16 2002 - 03:07 PM

Is it insane to be so caught up in a TV show?
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#53 of 910 OFFLINE   Tim Markley

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Posted September 16 2002 - 03:35 PM

I have a feeling Christopher might feel some heat for the cop killing. He tried to cover it up, but his prints have to be somewhere. On the gun, the coffee table, the TV... he touched so much
He wiped the gun down pretty good but he left a whole ashtray of cigarette butts. If it was a real crime they'd get his DNA off of the butts and he'd be in jail. I'm sure that he left some prints somewhere in the house also. I don't think that anything further will come from this though.

#54 of 910 OFFLINE   Piers C

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Posted September 16 2002 - 04:20 PM

Its interesting to read everyone's comments. Its helpful having so many people trying to piece things together!

I love how the show doesn't hand everything to the audience on a platter, but I found this opener to be dis-jointed. It really lacked any flow. I appreciate that its setting up story lines that will run through the season, but I don't feel this was David Chase's best work. Its been a long break, so I can show some patience and wait for things to develop.

There was a lot of stuff going on that didn't jive with me b/c it didn't seem to be in character. From Carmela's new love interest, the uncover FBI agent getting open access, the lesbo stuff at the hotel, Christopher doing a poor job on the hit (was it just that he was high?emotional b/c of the connection with his dad?), & Tony hiding money all over the house.

Was it me or were a lot of the actors eating their lines? It was hard to hear some of the dialogue at times. Maybe I need to get my ears checked.

#55 of 910 OFFLINE   Jodee



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Posted September 17 2002 - 01:30 AM

I just saw the "A don doesn't wear shorts" scene again, and I'm still not sure how to interpret that line.

That line made me laugh because I assumed it was mainly an in-joke: I remember on the commentary track for the pilot episode David Chase saying he made a mistake for Tony to wear shorts because mafia consultants later told him that a mob boss would NEVER wear shorts.

That line seemed like a great way to comment on the producer's early mistake and also use it as a character defect for Tony.

#56 of 910 OFFLINE   Allen Hirsch

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Posted September 17 2002 - 04:09 AM

I thought the most telling line of the episode was Christopher saying to himself, almost as much as to the retired cop, "it doesn't matter whether you killed my dad; I'm supposed to kill you anyway" (paraphrased, of course).

Interesting that Tony told Carmela "there's no cash in the house anymore". Then we see him stashing it all over the place in new spots (including the cracked corn for the ducks).

Why would he be hiding it even from his wife, especially since Carmela's scared to death she'll end up like Angie (dishing samples at the supermarket) if something happens to Tony?
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#57 of 910 OFFLINE   Jodee



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Posted September 17 2002 - 04:43 AM

I think it's pretty dumb to not tell Carmela where the cash is.

I can just see something like this happening:

"Carm! Where's the big bag of bird feed I bought?"
"We had so much I gave it to the church."


#58 of 910 OFFLINE   Dave Morton

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Posted September 17 2002 - 06:12 AM

"there's no cash in the house anymore".
I think that line was in case anyone was listening. The less people know about anything, then the less chance of it getting found.
Another thought, and this may be way off the wall, but the "only trust blood" line may not cross over to your wife. So maybe he doesn't trust Carmella.
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#59 of 910 OFFLINE   Chris Bardon

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Posted September 17 2002 - 06:20 AM

Just finished watching the premiere, and a few things just kind of stuck out. I think that having Paulie out like that all of a sudden was a little harsh-there's still the score to settle between him and the russians. There's also the whole thing with everyone going back on drugs-especially Ralphie (who was turning into such a good character too).

My biggest question though is why the financial woes? What about the big construction job that they'd just landed c/o Ralphie? Is that gone now?

Also, I find it VERY odd that Carmella was trying to get herself out at the end of Season 3 (the Real estate course books, trying to survive on legit money etc.), but in this season she's trying to get herself further in? Wild guess here, but could she be setting up to sell Tony out to save herself and the kids?
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#60 of 910 OFFLINE   Jake Gove

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Posted September 17 2002 - 06:35 AM

About the timeline, what everyone is forgetting is Tony's line about Enron. That makes it seem like it is supposed to be happening right about now, August or Sept 2002.

I wish they would have picked up right where they left off instead of skipping until now, though.

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