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Looking at Receivers - here is a comparison chart


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87 replies to this topic

#1 of 88 Bob McElfresh

Bob McElfresh

    Producer

  • 5,183 posts
  • Join Date: May 22 1999

Posted November 19 2002 - 06:11 PM

Here is a table I whipped up to compare receivers. I've sorted the table by price from lowest to highest. I apologize in advance for any typos.

Last Update: 12/02/2002
Receiver Features

Receiver Comparison

================================





InputsOutputs
MfgModelPriceWPCDecodingsAudio InputsVideo InputsAudio OutZones
KenwoodVR-6050$2005 x 100DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
1 Optical
6 Analog
3 Compos
0 S-Video
0 Coaxial
0 Optical
6 PreOut
1
JVCRX-6020VBK$2205 x 100DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
6 Analog
2 Compos
0 S-Video
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
5 PreOut
1
DenonAVR-1403$2995 x 70DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
6 Analog
4 Compos
0 S-Video
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
1
YamahaRX-V430$2995 x 75DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
6 Analog
4 Compos
0 S-Video
0 Coaxial
0 Optical
6 PreOut
1
KenwoodVR-6050$3005 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
1 Optical
6 Analog
4 Compos
3 S-Video
0 Coaxial
0 Optical
7 PreOut
1
OnkyoTX-SR500$3205 x 65DD only
DTS only
DPL II only
1 Coaxial
2 Optical
6 Analog
4 Compos
4 S-Video
0 Coaxial
0 Optical
1 PreOut
1
JVCRX-7020VBK$3305 x 100DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
6 Analog
3 Compos
3 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
6 PreOut
1
DenonAVR-1603$3995 x 80DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
6 Analog
4 Compos
3 S-Video
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
8 PreOut
1
DenonAVR-683$3995 x 80DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
6 Analog
4 Compos
3 S-Video
0 Coaxial
0 Optical
8 PreOut
1
YamahaRX-V530$3995 x 75DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
6 Analog
4 Compos
3 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
6 PreOut
1
OnkyoTX-L5$4005 x 17DD only
DTS only
DPL II only
1 Coaxial
2 Optical
0 Analog
3 Compos
3 S-Video
0 Coaxial
0 Optical
5 PreOut
1
MarantzSR4300$4296 x 80DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
7 Analog
4 Compos
2 S-Video
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
1
HarmanAVR-125$4495 x 45DD only
DTS only
DPL II only
3 Coaxial
3 Optical
1 Analog
4 Compos
4 S-Video
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
1 PreOut
1
JVCRX-8020VBK$4505 x 120DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
7 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
1
JVCRX-DV3SL$4505 x 100DD only
DTS only
DPL II only
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
0 Analog
2 Compos
2 S-Video
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
0 PreOut
1
PioneerVSX-C300$4505 x 40DD only
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
0 Coaxial
3 Optical
0 Analog
4 Compos
0 S-Video
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
4 PreOut
1
PioneerVSX-D811S$4756 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
4 Compos
4 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
1
DenonAVR-1803$4996 x 80DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 Compon
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
1 PreOut
1
DenonAVR-883$4996 x 80DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
3
Outlaw1050$4996 x 65DD only
DTS only
DPL only
1 Coaxial
2 Optical
6 Analog
4 Compos
3 S-Video
0 Coaxial
0 Optical
7 PreOut
1
YamahaRX-V630$4996 x 75DD & DD Ex
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
1
KenwoodVR-6060$5006 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 Compon
0 Coaxial
0 Optical
8 PreOut
1
SonySTR-DA1ES$5005 x 100DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
5 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
1 PreOut
1
OnkyoTX-SR600$5306 x 80DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL II only
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
1 PreOut
1
HarmanAVR-225$5495 x 55DD only
DTS only
DPL II only
3 Coaxial
3 Optical
1 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
1 PreOut
1
JVCRX-9010VBK$5505 x 120DD only
DTS only
DPL only
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
2
JVCRX-DV5SL$5505 x 100DD only
DTS only
DPL II only
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
0 Analog
2 Compos
2 S-Video
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
0 PreOut
1
MarantzSR5300$5996 x 90DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
7 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
8 PreOut
1
YamahaRX-V730$5996 x 75DD & DD Ex
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
8 PreOut
1
KenwoodVR-6070$6006 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 Compon
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
8 PreOut
2
SherwoodR-756$6005 x 100DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
6 Analog
4 Compos
4 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
3 PreOut
1
SonySTR-DE985$6006 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
4 S-Video
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
4 PreOut
2
MarantzSR6300$6996 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
2 Optical
7 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
8 PreOut
1
SonySTR-DA2ES$7006 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
4 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
2 PreOut
2
DenonAVR-2802$7997 x 90DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 Compon
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
2
DenonAVR-982$7996 x 90DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
2
HarmanAVR-325$7997 x 60DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL II only
3 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
2 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
2
YamahaRX-V1200$7996 x 80DD only
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
5 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
10 PreOut
2
YamahaRX-V1300$7996 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
5 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
4 PreOut
2
PioneerElite VSX-41TX$8006 x 110DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
4 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
2
SherwoodR-758$8005 x 80DD only
DTS only
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
2 Optical
0 Analog
2 Compos
1 S-Video
1 Compon
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
3 PreOut
1
SonyAVD-S50ES$8005 x 100DD only
DTS only
DPL II only
1 Coaxial
2 Optical
0 Analog
0 ComPos
3 S-Video
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
1 PreOut
1
OnkyoTX-SR700$8306 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL II only
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
8 PreOut
2
MarantzSR7300$8996 x 105DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
4 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
8 PreOut
2
KenwoodVR-5080$9505 x 80DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
2 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 Compon
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
10 PreOut
2
DenonAVR-1082$9997 x 110DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 Compon
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
3
HarmanAVR-525$9997 x 70DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL II only
3 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
2 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
2
YamahaRX-V2200$9996 x 100DD only
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
5 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
10 PreOut
2
YamahaRX-V2300$9996 x 110DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
5 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
4 PreOut
2
SherwoodR-863$10007 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
4 Compos
4 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
3 PreOut
2
SonyAVD-C70ES$10005 x 120DD only
DTS only
DPL II only
1 Coaxial
2 Optical
0 Analog
0 ComPos
3 S-Video
1 Compon
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
1 PreOut
1
SonySTR-DA4ES$10007 x 110DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
4 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
2 PreOut
2
OnkyoTX-SR800$10507 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL II only
3 Coaxial
4 Optical
8 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
2
JVCRX-DP9VBK$11005 x 120DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL only
1 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
1
KenwoodVR-5090$11505 x 80DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
7 Coaxial
7 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
11 PreOut
2
DenonAVR-3803$12007 x 110DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
5 Optical
8 Analog
7 Compos
7 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
10 PreOut
3
PioneerElite VSX-43TX$12007 x 80DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
1 Coaxial
2 Optical
9 PreOut
2
RotelRSX-1056$13005 x 75DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
2 Optical
7 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 Compon
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
2
PioneerElite VSX-45TX$14007 x 90DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
1 Coaxial
2 Optical
9 PreOut
2
HarmanDPR-1001$14997 x 50DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL II only
3 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
2 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
2
YamahaRX-V3300$15996 x 130DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
5 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
4 PreOut
2
OnkyoTX-NR900$16007 x 110DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL II only
3 Coaxial
5 Optical
8 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
9 PreOut
2
SherwoodR-963$16007 x 120DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
5 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
3 PreOut
2
MarantzSR8200$16996 x 120DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
4 Optical
8 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
3
YamahaRX-V3200$16996 x 120DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
5 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
10 PreOut
2
JVCRX-DP10VBK$17007 x 120DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL only
1 Coaxial
4 Optical
8 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
2
HarmanAVR-7200$17997 x 90DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
3 Optical
6 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
3 PreOut
2
KenwoodVR-5700$18505 x 120DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
7 Coaxial
7 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
11 PreOut
2
RotelRSX-1065$20005 x 100DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
2 Optical
7 Analog
5 Compos
5 S-Video
2 Compon
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
2
SonySTR-DA7ES$23007 x 120DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
4 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
5 S-Video
2 High Def
0 Coaxial
1 Optical
2 PreOut
3
DenonAVR-4802$25007 x 125DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
5 Optical
8 Analog
8 Compos
8 S-Video
3 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
11 PreOut
3
KenwoodVR-5900$26505 x 130DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
7 Coaxial
7 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
2 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
11 PreOut
2
MarantzSR-14EX$26995 x 140DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL only
3 Coaxial
3 Optical
6 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
3 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
9 PreOut
2
HarmanAVR-8000$27995 x 110DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL II only
4 Coaxial
4 Optical
8 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
3 High Def
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
8 PreOut
2
YamahaRX-Z1$27998 x 130DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
7 Optical
6 Analog
8 Compos
8 S-Video
3 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
12 PreOut
2
B&KAVR-305$30005 x 150DD & DD Ex
DTS only
DPL only
6 Coaxial
5 Optical
6 Analog
7 Compos
7 S-Video
2 High Def
2 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
2
PioneerElite VSX-47TX$30007 x 130DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
2 Coaxial
4 Optical
8 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
4 High Def
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
10 PreOut
2
MarantzSR9200$31997 x 140DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
5 Coaxial
5 Optical
8 Analog
7 Compos
7 S-Video
4 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
10 PreOut
3
B&KAVR-307$35007 x 150DD & DD Ex
DTS only
DPL only
6 Coaxial
5 Optical
6 Analog
7 Compos
7 S-Video
2 High Def
2 Coaxial
1 Optical
7 PreOut
2
OnkyoTX-DS989Ver2$35007 x 130DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL II only
5 Coaxial
3 Optical
8 Analog
6 Compos
6 S-Video
3 High Def
1 Coaxial
1 Optical
10 PreOut
2
DenonAVR-5803$43007 x 170DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
5 Coaxial
6 Optical
8 Analog
8 Compos
8 S-Video
3 High Def
0 Coaxial
2 Optical
13 PreOut
3
PioneerElite VSX-49TXi$45007 x 130DD & DD Ex
DTS & DTS ES
DPL & DPL II
3 Coaxial
5 Optical
8 Analog
7 Compos
7 S-Video
4 High Def
2 Coaxial
2 Optical
11 PreOut
2


Other Usefull links

==================

Our Own HTF Primer (Has a LOT of good info)
Value Canuck: Receiver Comparison
Allan Jayne's Bandwith page
Bandwidth vs Video Resolutions

Note: Lots of people have caught my spelling errors, sent me corrections on prices & features. Keep it up! As I incorporate the changes, I'm removing the posts as a check-off list. Please dont feel bad if your reply disappears.

But I DO welcome/encourage the "What does this mean" type of questions. If it confuses you, it likely confuses hundreds of others, but they are too shy to ask.

#2 of 88 David Berry

David Berry

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 150 posts
  • Join Date: May 09 2002

Posted November 20 2002 - 02:30 AM

Agree with above.

It should also be noted that last month's Sound and Vision magazine has a similar chart, for those of you that are interested.

David

#3 of 88 Robert James Clark

Robert James Clark

    Second Unit

  • 352 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 25 2001

Posted November 21 2002 - 06:41 AM

Interesting to note that many receivers that claim to be HD component compatible only go up to 28-30Mhz...


Robert

#4 of 88 peter_anderson

peter_anderson

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 184 posts
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Posted November 21 2002 - 10:59 AM

isn't DPL II a replacement for, and therefore never found "together" with DPL? I don't know if any receiver has ever had the option of switching between original DPL and DPL II.
Otherwise, thank you very much for your hard work!

#5 of 88 Gabriel_Lam

Gabriel_Lam

    Screenwriter

  • 1,402 posts
  • Join Date: Mar 07 2002

Posted November 22 2002 - 08:31 AM

Bandwidth requirements for switching:

http://members.aol.c...ejr/bandwid.htm

Quote:
NTSC Broadcast and VHS: 4.2 MHz
Laser Disk: 5.3 MHz

Regular NTSC DVD: 7 (6.8) MHz

Progressive Scan NTSC DVD and 480p DTV: 13.5 MHz

1080i HDTV: 37 MHz; in practice with 22 MHz the picture is still very superb.

720p HDTV; 37 MHz.

Home Theater Forum Sponsor

#6 of 88 Cire

Cire

    Stunt Coordinator

  • 67 posts
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Posted November 23 2002 - 01:50 AM

quote:
Some of the receivers have re-designed the circuits for HD video so for these models I say "High Def" instead of Component.


Is this the same as that thing they call Wideband Component Video?

#7 of 88 Rich Malloy

Rich Malloy

    Producer

  • 3,999 posts
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Posted November 23 2002 - 02:03 AM

Perhaps a small caveat should be included wrt to watts per channel - something like "manufacturer's stated figures may differ completely from reality". Posted Image

(Also, the Outlaw 1050 does have DD-6.1.)

Finally, when you refer under audio inputs to "X no. of analog", are you referring to inputs that completely bypass all internal processors (the kind necessary for SACD and DVD-A)? I just wanted to clarify because this is now a singularly crucial feature, and one would certainly be disappointed to find that one's brand-new receiver won't pass an unaltered hi-rez signal from SACD/DVD-A!

Great job, Bob - I'm sure this will be a very valuable resource! Posted Image
"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."

#8 of 88 Bill Rosenberg

Bill Rosenberg

    Auditioning

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  • Join Date: Nov 22 2002

Posted November 23 2002 - 07:07 AM

Compared to the bandwidth numbers posted previously, this site gives different values and goes into how they were determined.

Bandwidth Versus Video Resolution

(The page is down at the moment, so the best way to see the table is in the cached page from Google.)

This looks like a good reference describing how reducing the bandwidth changes the visual resolution. Here it says the signal bandwidths for 720p and 1080i are 26 MHz. Obviously you would want your receiver to have a wider BW than this.

Bill

#9 of 88 LanceJ

LanceJ

    Producer

  • 3,168 posts
  • Join Date: Oct 26 2002

Posted November 23 2002 - 06:30 PM

Panasonic or Technics don't have good "reputations"? Yikes, when was this a prerequisite for choosing a component???

Their money seems to go into the insides where it counts, not useless features, glitzy displays or confusing user interfaces (i.e. they are easy to operate).

I think for people that enjoy music or movies, Panasonic/Technics components get the job done very well.

LJ

#10 of 88 ChrisWiggles

ChrisWiggles

    Producer

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Posted November 27 2002 - 05:25 PM

isn't DPL II a replacement for, and therefore never found "together" with DPL? I don't know if any receiver has ever had the option of switching between original DPL and DPL II.


All receivers (to my knowledge anyway) that have DPLII have a PLI mode that can be engaged, thus giving you the original pro-logic presentation. So, in a way, PLII is ALWAYS together with PLI.

#11 of 88 Thomas J. Coyle III

Thomas J. Coyle III

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Posted November 29 2002 - 05:39 AM

Hi Bob
I have both Home Theater magazine's and the Sound and Vision magazine's Buyer's Guide for 2003 and they are just loaded with errors with the Home Theater magazine's version being the worst. If anyone is going to use either one of these guides, I would check with each of the manufacturers that you are interested in to verify the validity of the data presented.
By the way, liked your chart very much. Since I am a home theater nut, a number of people have asked me about what receiver/amp to buy. Your chart will be an excellent starting point to send my friends in the right direction.
Regards,
TCIII
Before you send someone to save the world, you better make sure they like it the way it is.

#12 of 88 Chu Gai

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Posted November 29 2002 - 11:10 PM

Robert, I think this is spectacular and generous work by you. It reminds me of when Audio magazine used to come out with their yearly chart where they listed specs on everything. If I may make two suggestions it would be to incorporate hyperlinks perhaps at the bottom for those who are interested to readily be able to access the manufacturer's webpage. Also perhaps to somehow include the manufacturer's warranty length by doing something like "Sony/3". Regardless, I applaud your efforts. If there's any way I can assist, please contact me.

#13 of 88 David Weltman

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Posted December 02 2002 - 10:05 PM

This chart is a great thing. I agree however, that it is unclear about the number of 2 channel vs. 5.1 analog bypass inputs. This is crucial info for those interested in SACD or DVD-A, and the Sony's have 2 sets of 5.1 inputs, for those who want a separate player for DVD-A and SACD.

#14 of 88 Bob McElfresh

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Posted December 03 2002 - 04:12 AM

Quote:
unclear about 2 channel vs. 5.1 analog bypass inputs

True. My sources do not indicate if the analog is bypass and even the Mfg pages often do not include this info.

Isnt there also a contridiction here? What about bass-management? To get your receiver to properly match sounds to the LARGE/SMALL/SUB speakers, it has to process the 5.1 analog inputs. But you dont want processing in an attempt to get the least-modified sound from the high-density audio. How does this work?

#15 of 88 Rich Malloy

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Posted December 03 2002 - 06:13 AM

It doesn't work.

With only a very small handful of exceptions, most receivers or pre/pros have no bass management functions for their analog inputs. This is why Sony and others are now including minimal bass management features on their SACD players and also why the Outlaw ICBM-1 (Integrated Controlled Bass Manager) is such a popular accessory -- in fact, I see that Stereophile-GTHT just named it "accessory of the year".

But, bass management aside, if your receiver doesn't allow an analog signal to completely bypass it's internal circuitry (no analog to digital conversion), then you will not hear the benefits of high-resolution sound. Period. This is, in my opinion, a crucial feature of any receiver (unless one is simply not interested in hi-rez sound).

And, once again, let me point out that your specs on the Outlaw 1050 are incorrect. It will process DD-6.1, and in fact was one of the very first receivers (if not the first) that did so in the budget price-range. And, once again, I believe a caveat regarding the stated power of a given receiver should be provided, or you should include greater detail in that column as this is one of the most misleading specs provided by far too many manufacturers. For example, you don't state whether a given model rates a certain watts/channel measurement with all channels driven simultaneously and across the entire audible spectrum, which of course is the crucial measurement. One could probably get a reading of 100watts/channel for a single channel driven at a frequency of 100Hz... but who the hell wants to listen to that? Posted Image

*And let's be mindful of the controversy surrounding such units as the Onkyo SR600, which apparently tested far below the stated power specs. One wonders how much fudging is really going on.
"Only one is a wanderer;
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#16 of 88 LanceJ

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Posted December 03 2002 - 06:31 AM

I would think that the newest Pioneers, Sonys, Denons and for sure, Panasonics (they manufacture most other company's dvd-audio hardware), have 100% analog 5.1 inputs since they are the biggest proponents of the hi-rez formats. For example, on the Panasonic SA-HE100, when switched to the "DVD 6CH" mode, the bass/treble controls no longer work. These circuits are obviously digital-based but don't operate at high enough resolution. On my Technics SA-DA8 receiver the tone controls do operate in the 5.1 mode--this is because they are analog-based controls (they use plain ol' rotary potentiometers rather than electronic buttons).

But I think on the Denons & Pioneers you have to make sure you have told the receiver to configure the 5.1 inputs in the direct(?) mode, since I think the upper models do have some form of bass management available for those 5.1 inputs. Are those bass management circuits hi-rez capable? I don't know!Posted Image. And if they ARE, they will be PCM-based (i.e. they contain 192kHz/24bit processors)---> but for SACD purists, this is a bad thing. SACD uses the Direct Stream Digital or DSD format and reformatting it through a pulse code modulation or PCM system will (supposedly!) eliminate DSD's adavantages over the "evil" PCM digital format.

Make sense? Posted Image. You can blame the paranoid recording industry's piracy fears for this stupidity.

All the mess above is why SACD/dvd-audio believers want a digital audio connnection between an SACD/dvd-audio player and the processor/receiver. And, why I'm not feeling too bad about not having a true dvd-audio player yet (I can't use a subwoofer where I live) & only using my dvd-audio's Dolby or DTS tracks to listen to them.

LJ

#17 of 88 Brae

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Posted December 03 2002 - 08:52 AM

Bob McElfresh, where did you garner your information on the power rating for the Pioneer Elite VSX-45TX? Is this a measure value by you or another independent group, rumor, etc.? Its certainly not what Pioneer publishes.

Just curious, so fix it! Posted Image

#18 of 88 MikeRP

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Posted December 03 2002 - 12:26 PM

Thanks Brae :

Hey Bob ditto on the 43 TX.

thanks

MikePosted Image

#19 of 88 HowardGjr

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Posted December 04 2002 - 04:09 AM

Bob,

Fantastic work. I wish I had seen this chart when I was first looking around for a receiver.

I think the RSX-1056 model for Rotel should be RSX-1055.

Take care.
Howard

#20 of 88 Brae

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Posted December 04 2002 - 04:53 AM

MikeRP, this bothers me in that I had HiFi Buys also state the same damn thing, and when I asked where they got their information ...

See, you just heard what I was told: nothing.

When someone is going to mentioned specifications, ratings, measurements, etc. I always like to find the source & method for where the information had come from.

For all I know the consumer marketing stuff for the Elites could be overly stated, but I would still like to know where Bob and HiFi Buys got their information from.

Until otherwise informed, I doubt either actually broke open a carton and measured the products. So, this [mis]information is coming from somewhere.