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MASTER BURN-IN THREAD: READ THIS FIRST! (And ask follow-ups here.)


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368 replies to this topic

#41 of 369 Jan Strnad

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Posted October 02 2002 - 04:36 AM

I love the Tosh 42" RPTV. It would be great in a bedroom.

I wouldn't wait to turn down the contrast. Do it as soon as you get the set.

Jan
Jan Strnad

aka J. Knight,
author of Risen and Boo.

#42 of 369 Navid

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Posted October 10 2002 - 02:21 AM

I have my Mitsubishi 65411. Why is it that most of my 16:9 movies must show a letter box if they are 16:9 movies??

It bothers me cause this can cause burn in.. Now just watching movies can cause problems!

#43 of 369 Jim FC

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Posted October 10 2002 - 02:44 AM

If there are bars then it isn't a 16:9 movie. Read the back of the DVD box: you may be watching a 2.35:1 movie, which equates to something like 21:9. On a 16:9 TV, these movies leave small bars above and below the image.

Unless you watch the movie over and over, or keep the contrast and brightness set way too high the way they are when the TV is first turned on, burn-in won't be too big a progblem. There are plenty of posts here about burn-in which you can read to learn how easily to avoid it.

#44 of 369 Bill Slack

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Posted October 10 2002 - 02:59 AM

I've been watching 1.33 and 2.35 programing on my (calibrated) Toshiba for 2 years now and haven't even the faintest burn-in. Burn-in is something to lookout for, but people take it WAY too seriously.

Keep the contrast down, and you'll be just fine.

#45 of 369 Michael Reuben

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Posted October 10 2002 - 03:03 AM

Quote:
It bothers me cause this can cause burn in.. Now just watching movies can cause problems!

People have watched letterboxed movies on 4:3 TV sets for many years without encountering major burn-in problems. What makes you think your experience will be any different?

M.
COMPLETE list of my disc reviews.       HTF Rules / 200920102011 Film Lists

#46 of 369 Steve Phillips

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Posted October 10 2002 - 11:18 AM

Just curious: just where SHOULD the contrast be set? I guess I need to find that VIDEO ESSENTIALS DVD and do a proper set up. I did turn it down from the level it was set when new, but still wonder if I have it too high.

#47 of 369 Michael TLV

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Posted October 10 2002 - 12:11 PM

greetings

Test discs do a good job at telling you where not to set contrast ... not so great on where "to set" contrast at.

The proper way is with a light meter on the 100 ire window box of one of these test discs. Set contrast to the point where lightoutput is about 15 to 20 ft-l.

Without a light meter, set it to about 30 to 35% ... as on most sets, this area usually gives about the same light output.

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Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor/ISF Instructor
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#48 of 369 Vince Maskeeper

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Posted October 11 2002 - 12:16 AM

Navid,

You should read our Primer for Home Theater Newcomers .
http://www.hometheat....threadid=55635

Specifically:
If I buy a 16x9 wide screen TV, will I get rid of the black bars forever? by Vince Maskeeper

-V
Need an introduction to home theater? Check out our FAQ and Primer!!

#49 of 369 Allan Jayne

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Posted October 11 2002 - 04:58 AM

Currently movies are either "standard" (optimized for 4"3 TV sets) or "16:9 enhanced". The latter are optimized for 16:9 TV sets even though the picture does not fit the screen perfectly.

The current technology does not allow optimizing DVD's for any and all aspect ratios. That would require a continuously adjustable aspect ratio control on the TV where now there are just 4:3 and 16:9 settings and perhaps some modes that subtly stretch the sides more than the middle. And even so, the finished picture will be the same shape as today, not filling the screen perfectly for some movies.

Video hints:
http://members.aol.c...ynejr/video.htm
.

#50 of 369 Bill Slack

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Posted October 11 2002 - 05:24 PM

Without any tools, you should basically have the contrast set to the lowest point where the color white doesn't look gray. That should certainly be below 50% on most sets . The test disc will say to set it below the point of blooming, but that is generally going to be way too high (and on a lot of sets now, 100%.)

They do a nice job of getting brightness right, though.

I've screwed around with my set so much and have such a jerry-rigged switching method, I haven't the faintest idea where my contrast actually is. But it appears as 50% in my menu and maxes out at about 60% and essentially starts over, so I can never even accidentaly (or, more importantly, my guests) leave it set to high. (I was bored and playing with service/design mode.)

#51 of 369 Theron Shaffer

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Posted November 06 2002 - 03:29 PM

I understand the causes of burn in and have searched the burn-in topics. My question regards burn in from a widescreen being left in 4:3 mode on display, and whether there is a way to reverse that.

I only ask because I understand there is no real fix to static burn in, but some of the posts mentioned "you might be able to fix it if it was from the static bars for 4:3 content" but none elaborated beyond that.

My question stems from a local store selling a 2000 dollar panasonic for a few hundred dollars because it has the 4:3 burn in...and I was debating whether it might be worth it if there was a way to minimize the burn.

#52 of 369 Michael Reuben

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Posted November 06 2002 - 04:18 PM

I would pass it up. Stores routinely leave the contrast set very high on display models, because they want the most attention-grabbing image possible. I suspect that burn-in is only part of the problem with this set; it's useful life has probably been reduced from overdriving the CRTs.

M.
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#53 of 369 SteveDev

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Posted November 07 2002 - 12:55 AM

Definately agree. You have to remember that CRT's have limited lives to begin with. Usually this isn't a huge problem since with normal use "limited life" normally means by the time it dies you're likely looking for a new set anyway. However, stores usually leave their sets on 24/7 (at least the big stores do while smaller boutiques likely have the set on 12 hours a day) so this may severely limit the life of the set. If the contrast is set too high (which if it has burn-in it likely was), this is a double whammy!

Steve

#54 of 369 John-Miles

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Posted November 07 2002 - 03:40 AM

I agree with Michael and Steve completly...... however i would also look at how cheap.... i mean even if you only got a few eyars out of it it might not be that bad for 4:3 material. perhaps you are a gamer or your kids are for a few hundred dollars you could get a set that is big, in a very non-critical use and then who cares if your games and such burn it in, hehehehe its kinda like taking your old mountain bike when you want to go do really stupid stuff Posted Image
Cheers

John

#55 of 369 Jan Strnad

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Posted November 07 2002 - 04:09 AM

Hey, why doesn't someone market a DVD that puts black where the picture was and a high-intensity image where the black bars were? Then you could crank up your contrast and burn everything in evenly.

Jan
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author of Risen and Boo.

#56 of 369 Theron Shaffer

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Posted November 07 2002 - 06:03 AM

thanks for the input! I was wondering if there in fact was a way to "bleach" the darkened areas back, for lack of a better word because it was hinted at in some posts.

I agree, it would be a poor choice if it was even half price due to the reasons you stated....but I might consider it if its down to just 3 or 4 hundred just as the post above stated, primarily for 4:3 material and not expect a miracle. If there was a way to reduce the burn or even it, that was going to push me to buy....but as is I suppose I will use that money elsewhere.

Thanks all!

#57 of 369 Ben_E

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Posted November 07 2002 - 07:29 AM

Ok this is something I have wondered and here its been brought up. Why isn't there a DVD to fix certain burn in problems? I mean I don't see why it would be so hard. Create one with an option for a main black image and a brighter image on the sides for 4:3 burn in and a letterbox mode for 16:9 burn in (well several to compensate for the different aspect ratios). And it would allow people to watch 4:3 tv on their 16:9 RPTVs a lot more often. Sure burn in would happen, but with a little work and patience on evening out the burn in with the disk it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Why hasn't this happend yet?

#58 of 369 Ming Wang

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Posted November 07 2002 - 08:45 AM

I don't know others but my panny widescreen shows 4:3 material with gray bars on sides, to minimize uneven burn in.

how many people have 4:3 burn in on there widescreen set? or how many see letterbox burn in?

#59 of 369 Michael St. Clair

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Posted November 07 2002 - 10:32 AM

There are people who have used a PC to 'reverse burn', basically making their own patterns with a paint program.

One could definitely make a major improvement with some care, but you'll likely never wear it to match 100%, especially at the seam.

#60 of 369 Jan Strnad

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Posted November 08 2002 - 04:42 AM

The paint program is a great idea. You could "feather in" the seam, I'd think, with an airbrush effect.

Ming Wang: I don't know how many, or what percentage. I think the problem is overstated, but it does happen, especially with sets that aren't properly calibrated that are still running on "torch" mode with the contrast turned up high (as they come from the factory).

The gray bars are better than black ones for reducing burn-in, but some people find them more distracting. That's why a good stretch mode is so important, so that for non-critical viewing you can fill the screen and avoid burn-in issues.

Jan
Jan Strnad

aka J. Knight,
author of Risen and Boo.