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Paradigm price fixing


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218 replies to this topic

#1 of 219 Cooper_B

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Posted October 25 2002 - 03:59 PM

So how tight is Paradigm's policy of price fixing in their dealers? I've been to a dealer in San Diego and in Pittsburgh, and both refused to discount off MSRP, except for a floor model. Yet I hear others mention purchasing for much less.

Post your experience!

-Cooper

#2 of 219 Michael Yung

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Posted October 25 2002 - 04:15 PM

In NJ, the price is somewhat flexible. But the real deal is in Canada. Favorable exchange rates and 15 to 20% off retail on a fairly regular basis.

#3 of 219 MarcVH

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Posted October 25 2002 - 04:49 PM

I don't know that it's fixing so much as the fact that the set of "authorized dealers" is so geographically spread out that there's frequently no meaningful competition, and hence no particular reason to sell for less than MSRP.

#4 of 219 Kevin. W

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Posted October 26 2002 - 02:27 AM

Cooper,

If you can make it too Canada, this is where the deals are.

Kevin

#5 of 219 Jeff AW

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Posted October 26 2002 - 02:45 AM

Canada is the deal, definetly! My local buffalo dealer didn't budge alot in price, so I "discovered" here that you could get them in Canada for a heck of a deal.

I got my two studio 40's, studio CC and Servo 15 in Canada for about $2000 US with a favorable exchange and once my GST and PST was refunded. I live in Buffalo, so it was a simple 45 minute drive into Canada. The only pain about it is you have to get your GST/PST refunded, and its not that bad.

So if you truely want paradigms go to canada....
Jeff W.

#6 of 219 Cooper_B

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Posted October 26 2002 - 04:30 AM

Oh yeah, and the reason I said price fixing was that the Pittsburgh dealer said they couldn't discount. He said no dealers are allowed to, and that he would personally report any dealer that he found doing so. Sounds like hostility toward capitalism.

And I'm usually pretty polite to salesman. People talk about how dealers need their markup. Yet the Yamaha dealer willingly gave me ~$50 off his CDC-775. I wonder if it really is corporate Paradigm policy, or just some tight dealers. Maybe I should call up Paradigm & ask.

-Cooper

p.s.: Canada is sounding tempting, but I'm in Connecticut at the moment.

#7 of 219 David Sim

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Posted October 26 2002 - 06:25 AM

I haggled with the dealer near me and said I had no problem with road tripping to Canada.
I ended up getting the Studio 100s Studio CC and Studio ADPs for $2800 US plus he threw in some Kimber cable for the fronts and center.
I'm not really sure if this was a good price but I wasn't really going to drive all the way to Canada.
He doesn't need to know that.Posted Image

Umm, did I get a good price?

#8 of 219 Chas_T

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Posted October 26 2002 - 10:36 AM

Quote:
Oh yeah, and the reason I said price fixing was that the Pittsburgh dealer said they couldn't discount. He said no dealers are allowed to, and that he would personally report any dealer that he found doing so.


Sounds like male bovine excrement to me.

Living in PA, discounts run from 10-22% in the eastern part of the state. It's always the dealers discretion.

As the other posters have mentioned, Canada's the place to purchase Paradigm's product line depending where you live in proximity to the border.

#9 of 219 Mike O'Connell

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Posted October 27 2002 - 04:43 AM

I got about 20% off my Paradigms, but luckily there are two dealers in the Kansas City region, and one near my parent's hometown in Iowa.

Not allowed to discount......... that is a bunch of hogwash.

Mike

#10 of 219 Dustin B

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Posted October 27 2002 - 05:42 AM

David, not bad for the US. MSRP in Canadian dollars is

100 - $2400
ADP - $1050
CC - $600

So $4050 total. 20-30% discounts aren't uncommon in Canada. At 25% that takes you down to $3000. Then rough conversion is 63 cents on the dollar so that takes you down to $1900USD + whatever it would have cost you to drive to the dealer in Canada and back. This doesn't include taxes, but with a little effort you can get them both back.
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#11 of 219 Cooper_B

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Posted October 27 2002 - 08:19 AM

Alright, well thanks for the responses. I hate that feeling of falling for misinformation, especially from salesmen. Ick.

-Cooper

#12 of 219 Bill Lucas

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Posted October 27 2002 - 12:38 PM

"Sounds like hostility toward capitalism."

Actually, it sounds like capitalism, period.

Does anyone get a discount when they buy something at McDonalds? Do you haggle over the price of nails or lumber at Home Depot? I fail to understand why people think it is their God given right to get a discount off of list price on stereo equipment. The dealer is under no obligation to give a discount nor do they need to give a reason as to why they don't discount. The consumer on the other hand has the right to not make the purchase. That's it.

#13 of 219 dpippel

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Posted October 27 2002 - 02:11 PM

Quote:
Does anyone get a discount when they buy something at McDonalds? Do you haggle over the price of nails or lumber at Home Depot? I fail to understand why people think it is their God given right to get a discount off of list price on stereo equipment.
Perhaps not a right, but certainly an expectation. The audio business has a long and illustrious history of using discount off MSRP as a sales tool. When a dealer won't budge off list, many customers smell fish.
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#14 of 219 Jon Cheung

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Posted October 27 2002 - 02:12 PM

When I was shopping around for Paradigm, the dealer that I went to easily went down 20% and I'm in Canada so I think it's definetly worth coming up here to buy Paradigm.

#15 of 219 Chas_T

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Posted October 27 2002 - 02:55 PM

Quote:
I fail to understand why people think it is their God given right to get a discount off of list price on stereo equipment.


Because that is the nature of the business in this area of consumer purchasing as Doug has pointed out. MSRP is their game plan and that number is inflated for the reason of discounting.

It's negotiation and that's the name of the game as long as I've been buying this stuff. You don't like the price, you walk away as you write. I've never payed list price for any piece of audio equipment and never would.

It is not my God given right for sure. Also, I am never immune to profits being made by any company. It's the nature of any business. Yet, there is profit and then there is highway robbery.

Cheers...

#16 of 219 Scott Falkler

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Posted October 27 2002 - 03:13 PM

I am in Oklahoma and got my Mini Monitors for $289 a pair.

#17 of 219 Aaron Smithski

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Posted October 27 2002 - 03:38 PM

Does anyone get a discount when they buy something at McDonalds? Do you haggle over the price of nails or lumber at Home Depot? I fail to understand why people think it is their God given right to get a discount off of list price on stereo equipment. The dealer is under no obligation to give a discount nor do they need to give a reason as to why they don't discount. The consumer on the other hand has the right to not make the purchase. That's it.


It looks like Bill must own an audio store or something...Posted Image

MSRP=Manufaturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price...Well, that's great that they make a suggestion for the dealer network to reference. It is then up to the dealer to decide how they wish to price the product in accordance with the profit margin they desire or what the market will bear. Paradigm is a very highly respected manufacturer of speakers so perhaps they can command full list price; that is up to the buyer. I totally agree with Doug, historically it is almost universally expected to get some sort of discount on audio equipment.

I don't recall seeing an MSRP designation next to the price on the board at McDonald's last time I ordered a Big Mac!Posted Image

I bet Bill is happy to pay full manufacturer's sticker price for his cars too! Posted Image

Aaron Smith

#18 of 219 TonyTone

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Posted October 28 2002 - 04:15 AM

Quote:
I bet Bill is happy to pay full manufacturer's sticker price for his cars too!
I was gonna say the very same thing but you beat me to it!Posted Image

Wonder if his "capitalism" comment regarding MSRP applies to selling lived-in houses where many times, it is often the highest bidder who gets the sale--yeah, there really isn't such a thing as MSRP as far as homes are concerned but I think you get the idea...

How does the saying go again--buy low, sell high? Yep, capitalism at its finest...Posted Image

#19 of 219 ChrisDixon

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Posted October 28 2002 - 04:17 AM

Cooper,

Which dealer did you go to in Pittsburgh? I've noticed a wide variety of quality, knowledge, and price flexibility around here. One place I know of has about the worst customer service that I've ever seen in retail.

Chris

#20 of 219 Bill Lucas

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Posted October 28 2002 - 05:56 AM

Yep, I knew the flames would come. Doesn't bother me. Posted Image

Aaron,

I own a custom installation business. I don't deal with Internet buyers or shoppers. What we do is worth the price of admission and the level of service and support we provide is far beyond that of any retailer.

What you guys don't understand is that the dealer is under no restraint from any manufacturer to sell a product at a certain price. It is my choice. However, to stay in business and service my customers I must maintain a certain margin. If I go out of business my customer base is SOL. So no, you don't get to decide my pricing strategy. You can choose not to buy, but you can't set my prices. Chas thinks that selling at list price is likened to highway robbery. Does he have any idea how much of the margin is eaten up by overhead? Not likely. Everyone here seems to see margin as pure profit. The truth is that most companies in this business operate at an after tax profit of about 8% after all expenses are paid IF they sell at full list price. Doesn't seem like highway robbery to me. If they discount everything heavily they won't stay in business.

Of course, I'm sure ya'll will see put to tear apart every phrase I've written. No problem, it's expected. But remember, if the company that YOU work for doesn't have its eye on the bottom line then you will eventually be out of a job. I enjoy what I do and I feel that I have an obligation to my clients to service them in the future so I'll charge what I need to charge to remain a viable business. Regards.


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