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Vienna Acoustics


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#1 of 26 Bill Law

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Posted October 22 2002 - 07:50 AM

I don't see much here on the Vienna's.
Also, noticed they (Sumiko) stopped advertising this month in the usual rags.
What's the deal? Are they ok, stable?
I was impressed enough to order 7 (Mahler, Oratorio, Waltz's).
I did find out I won't be getting the stand shown in the Strauss/Oratorio ad. It doesn't exist! It is 3 SonusFaber stands digitally retouched to appear as a single stand.

#2 of 26 Michael Roderiques

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Posted October 22 2002 - 08:09 AM

Bill

you can check out the web site

www.sunmikoaudio.net

Last time I talked with them, things sounded good. Then things can change in a couple of months too.
Michael Roderiques

#3 of 26 Bill Law

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Posted October 22 2002 - 08:19 AM

.

#4 of 26 Michael Roderiques

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Posted October 22 2002 - 09:14 AM

Bill
Of the two, I have to take the Velo.

I like the finish of thr REL units, and the performance of the Velo. Too bad they stoped making the rosewood cabinets for the Velo's
Michael Roderiques

#5 of 26 Bill Law

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Posted October 22 2002 - 12:47 PM

Just curious why Vienna Acoustics posts are so rare.

#6 of 26 Michael Roderiques

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Posted October 22 2002 - 01:07 PM

Good question.

They are high quality speakers, have an excellent sound profile, very efficient and look good too.

From a price point, they are not that much more than a few of the top choices a number of people here talk about owning. Mozarts go for like what 1500 a pair?

They are hard to find. i don't think the dealer network is that big. Something Sumiko needs to work on for sure.

At sumiko, man do they have some nice rigs. how about a 300K turntable. All air bearings and self leveling with a vacuum clamping system. this thing is like a piece of art.
Michael Roderiques

#7 of 26 Matt Jesty

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Posted October 22 2002 - 01:25 PM

The Vienna's are amazing ...my wife who loves classical music, but rarely pays any attention to the brand names on the gear, was waiting in a sound room for me one day and listening to the Beethovens. When I found her listening to the Brandenburg Concertos, she said "you can bring these home".............
The Rel , I feel can certainly be bested for output (though the Stadium does fine), but are one of the few subs that afford me the oppurtunity to seemlessly integraTE SUBS FOR MUSIC and solve most of my bass management issues without the use of permanent bass management electronics.....
just $0.02 .................

Reading about audio equipment is like reading about wine, food, sex, art, far-off places...nice to do but hardly a substitute for experiancing these things first hand....
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#8 of 26 Bill Law

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Posted October 23 2002 - 02:23 AM

Matt,
Please elaborate.
You are saying what I've heard....REL is a more MUSICAL sub. Something about their 3-wire high-level connection.
I'm trying to understand.
Stereophile rates the Velo Class A but doesn't address REL.
Does that mean that the VelodyneHGS18 would be noticeably worse than the Stadium III when listening to music?
60%HT/40%music
I

#9 of 26 Matt Jesty

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Posted October 23 2002 - 03:12 AM

Bill, I don't want to dis the Velo , I'm not too familiar with it ,I rather, would comment that the Nutrix connector on the REL COUPLED WITH a UNIQUE CROSSOVER ADJUSTMENT method allows to blend these subs into the natural roll- off of almost any speaker without using all the differant extra electronic crossovers that are commonly used....These SUBS make unneccesary the obsessing over most bass management inadequacies of sacd/dvd-a or the rcvr/pre-pro's.......The high level input doesn't draw but mili-amps of current but TASTES the sonic signature of your amps and imparts their qualities to it's sound.......
Reading about audio equipment is like reading about wine, food, sex, art, far-off places...nice to do but hardly a substitute for experiancing these things first hand....
Trust is easier to establish face-to-face, than via correspondance...
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#10 of 26 Bill Blank

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Posted October 23 2002 - 05:01 AM

Bill,

One reason you probably don't see many posts here about Vienna's is their cost and distribution. They don't have a huge product line either so reviews are few and far between. I have the same setup (sans REL sub) that was reviewed last summer in Home Theater Magazine. It consists of Mozarts up front (which cost $2500 BTW, not $1500), a Maestro in the middle, and Haydns in the rear. I built my system with music as the number one priority and the Mozarts came from my dedicated (now integrated) 2-ch system.

Many here, from my short time on this board and AVS's, are HT maniacs to the extreme. I come from the music/2-ch world where sound quality is most important. In HT it's clearly the picture that wins top priority with sound quality given second or third. It seems, again from my short obsservations, that the look of the room often plays a big part, sometimes relagating sound (speakers) to a third thought.

Vienna doesn't have a ton of distributors other than Tweeter here in the States. Tweeter falling somewhere between Best Buy and your local specialty store, the number of people they reach is limited as they don't advertise as much.

The other reason I gave was price and that's not to say people here are cheap. But HT requires at least 5 speakers and music only requires 2. Vienna is just recently beginning to get serious about HT but the cost is still high to assemble a 5 speaker suite of their speakers.

Vienna as a company is doing great. I recently talked to Pat Butler of Sumiko and he mentioned they're introducing a new line here in the States with home theater tendancies. The new line consists of speakers that blend into most decors better, allowing placement on walls, etc as well as non-wood finishes. I believe they're called the Aluminum Series.

Anyhow, I've got a low-end Velodyne I'm using for now and it's fine since it only gets used for HT. If bass-management was an issue for me then I'd go with the REL because of it's flexibility. If I didn't have issues with management, the Velodyne would clearly offer a bigger bang for HT. As far as being more musical, they're right in that a 12" or bigger driver in a hulking huge cabinet doesn't have the quickness of a small driver/smaller cabinet. It will likely have more extension and be able to play louder however. As for looks, the REL's win hands down over any other sub I've seen.

Good Luck! That sounds like a KILLER system you've got there! Keep in touch with Sumiko about some stands. The Mahlers are supposed to include slate-like bases.

Cheers!
Bill

#11 of 26 Bill Law

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Posted October 23 2002 - 07:35 AM

Bill,
Thanks for the informative reply.
I too am from the 2-channel separates of the "old" days (ever heard of Norman speakers 1980's?).
I don't really understand the "bass management issues" that I may soon encounter.
I thought is was as simple as programming where the sub kicks in (at 80hz) and where the mains roll off (at 80hz) and to minimize any overlap.
Guess I'll learn.
Sounds like if you hook up using line-level with RCA connects (LFE?) then the sub only works with 5.1 channel sources? Not with music?
I "cheaping" with a receiver to power the high-dollar speakers mainly because I understand that with the fully digital firewire connection between the 49TXi and 47Ai many bass management issues go away...or are handled properly by the receiver.
I am determined to fully understand before I buy a sub.
Thanks again!

#12 of 26 Bill Law

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Posted October 23 2002 - 07:36 AM

PS The stand I referred to was only for the center Oratorio channel. The Mahlers come with a built-in base.

#13 of 26 Bill Blank

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Posted October 23 2002 - 08:08 AM

Bill,

I just got into this hobby in '95 during my first year of college. I've never heard of Norman speakers!! I went from a Koss Micro system with a pair of Jensen speakers, 200 cassettes and 3 CD's in '95 to the two systems I've got now. I had a 6 month stint at one of Tweeter's warehouses as a supervisor so I'm relatively familiar with the Vienna and REL stuff. I was able to buy the Mozarts on accommodation from Sumiko for a very NICE pricePosted Image

As for the bass-management "problem" it is unique to one's related equipment, especially if they've invested in one of the new multi-channel, hi-rez audio formats already. Many of those source components as well as many older receivers and pre/pro's lack sufficient bass-management facilities when using the analog multi-channel connections. If your Pioneer gear has the appropriate facilities, ie it lets you take the bass below a given freq and send it to the sub, then you are fine in that respect.

You should also simply be able to select Sub= Yes or No when listening to any 2-ch source including vinyl if that's your preference though with the Mahlers I'm not sure you'd need one.

Cheers!
Bill

#14 of 26 Paul_Scott

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Posted October 23 2002 - 09:02 AM

it was first hearing Mozarts at a tweeters in Dallas, that took the sneer off my face, and made me realize that there actually was a big difference in speakers, and the cost of hundreds of $/pr vs. thousands of $/pr.
i had just listened to Mirages and Klipschs in one room and went into another to see if this 'high priced' stuff was the real deal or just fodder for brainwashed snobs.
the Mozarts completely blew me away.

in the last year i aggresivly began to research upgrading my components and speakers, and my new reciever just came this morning.
in that time, i got to listen to many good brands that i never even knew existed before from Thiels to Magneplanars to Rockets and just this past month, had the opportunity to hit the same store, this time with some friends.
my serious music-minded friend concurred with my inital impressions of the speakers (his Cowboy BeBop cd never sounded so good), but curiously i was a little more subdued in my enthusiasm this time.
i still think they are great sounding speakers, but i also think the ones i eventually settled on, that cost about $150 each, are pretty damn fine, and the fact i was able to put together a hi-quality 5.1 system for less than 1/2 the cost of a single pair of Mozarts, colors my impressions now.

still i have a soft spot for them because they were the first speakers i heard that ever made me swoon.
never would have thought it was possible before...Posted Image

#15 of 26 Bill Blank

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Posted October 23 2002 - 11:57 PM

Paul,
Glad to hear you and your friend had good experiences with the Mozarts at a Tweeter store. Their showrooms aren't the best conditions to audition speakers in as the difference for me was rather drastic (in a positive way) once I got them home.

Great to hear your loving the speakers you finally decided on for such a great price. That's really all that matters, not what anyone on boards like these think. So what did you end up bringing home?

Vienna, to be honest, would not be part of my music/ht system had I not been working at Tweeter at the time to get a good deal on them. They're out of my reach financially at retail pricing and I lucked out to find the center and surrounds at a dealer that was recently dropped by Vienna that gave me a very nice price break as well.

I was originally looking at Paradigm Studio 60's and B&W DM603s2 when I got the job at Tweeter. I was more impressed with the Paradigms than the B&W's at the time.

How/where did you audition the ROckets? How did you like them?

Bill

#16 of 26 Newell

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Posted October 24 2002 - 01:28 AM

I have the VA Bachs, Haydn and Theatro w/ a REL Storm III. Simply awesome on music, but lacks some "slam" on HT. I was facing your same dilemma. Looked at adding a HSU VTF-3 or a Revel B15.

Finally decided on an Art of Sound subwoofer (www.artofsound.net). These subs have the same high level "speakon" connection option as the RELs but according to Dave, the owner, offer more "slam" while retaining their musicality.

At least give Dave a call (or email). He is located in Jacksonville, FL.

Buddy

#17 of 26 Paul_Scott

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Posted October 24 2002 - 02:04 AM

Bill,
let me preface this by saying that this last time i heard the Mozarts, they had switched rooms and were now in (my non-audiophile opinion) a much poorer arrangement- too far apart, with other floor standers flanking each side.
they couldn't be pulled out or adjusted for toe-in much, so that probably contributed to my less enthusiatic response this time.
The thing the Moazrts made me realize, and that i kept in mind while i audition others in my search, was that i found their soft-dome tweeters much more pleasing than any of the metal domed ones i've heard.
took me a while to realize this, because many speakers impressed me with being able to bring out and clarify detail in recordings and soundtracks, but pretty much all of the ones i listened to with metal domed tweeters began to fatigue me within 10 minutes. I went back and investigated the Mozarts and found a big difference was the type of tweeter. from then on i tried to narrow the focus of my serious search to speakers with fabric tweeters, although for peace of mind i still listened to everything i could.

about the Rockets;
i had planned to dig up another thread on the viennas and post in that when i got back the other day. Russell T had posted in that one of his more or less favorable impressions of the Mozarts, then ended by saying it was hard to get that excited though because he had been living with and listening to his rocket set-up for the past few months.
anyone thats read his posts here or on AVS knows Russ is an ardent fan (and one of the beta testers, i believe) of the rockets, and doesn't hesitate to recommend them to any and all. at the time though, that comment struck me as...well,...it just seemed like a true believer who has a hard time seeing beyond any faith but his.
i was caught up in the Rocket enthusiasm (from the mile long thread on AVS), but c'mon! We're talking Mozarts here...at that time, to me, they were so far out in front of everything else i had heard (and would hear), that i really had a hard time taking him seriously.
So anyways, i tried out the bookshelf 250's w/ a 200 (bigfoot) center.
i had the 250s for a month and the center for a bit longer (as i vacilated on whether to send it back or keep it anticipating a move to their floorstanders as mains).
i had the opportunity to try these rockets with several different recievers, and can say, without a doubt, they are SENSATIONAL HT speakers.
there is a reason their owners are rabidly enthusiatic about them (sometimes to the point of inducing nasuea Posted Image ). they are the real deal frome the outside on in.
but to be honest, they didn't make me swoon with music.
they were very good- excellant, but ...you know how it is, when you hear the speaker that is RIGHT for you, you know it...you don't have to equivocate or vacilate.
that said, i can easily imagine now how having the 750s would dampen any unnatural excitement over equally fine speakers like the Mozarts- espically when the per pair cost is more than $1K less (maybe more when accounting for sales tax vs. shipping).
in addition i thought the Rockets were the most astethically pleasing speaker i've seen yet.
even though i do not own them, i wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. just a fantastic value.
i lost about $140 shipping back and forth, but i really don't mind. i got some quality time with some excellant speakers, and was able to finally have a benchmark that assisted me in evaluating all the other brands i heard.

#18 of 26 Bill Law

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Posted October 24 2002 - 03:40 AM

Paul,
Yours was the first believable review of rockets.
I was convinced that every post was by someone selling them. Maybe not.
Regardless I am excited about my Vienna setup that I will pickup next week.
Will post impressions when they are set up......better be dang good for all the $.

#19 of 26 Paul_Scott

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Posted October 24 2002 - 05:39 AM

Bill,
i'm damn sure you won't be dissapointed in your Viennas.
before we started demoing the cds my friend had brought, they were playing Shrek, and the center they had (can't remember which one it was) sounded absolutely sublime.

one of the big things you have going for you in purchasing the Viennas (over say, the rockets) is much better resale value.
even if they maintain their current standards of quality (both product and service were excellant), it would still be some time before they make the kind of impression on the hard-core audiophile crowd that would make selling them off to upgrade to something else worthwile.
plus they are already priced pretty low new-in-the-box as it is.

anyways, the only important thing is to enjoy what you have.
like the girl says "it's not getting what you want, its wanting what you've got"

#20 of 26 SkiingNinja

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Posted October 29 2002 - 07:24 AM

Quote:
Yours was the first believable review of rockets. I was convinced that every post was by someone selling them. Maybe not.



I hear this from time to time and I was just wondering why the Rockets are singled out from every other brand that is talked about on the forums.

Is it because of the number of posts the Divas and Rockets have generated on the forums? There are about 8000 posts and over 500,000 views of Rockets threads on AVS alone. Do people actually think we go and post most of that stuff?

Also think about the www.audioenvy.com site (started by customers) and all the talk that is generated after auditions...not to mention the fact that my home is open to anyone who wants to hear the Rockets and you can bring whatever gear you like to do a side by side comparo. There are a few mentions of this that were just posted as I just did two auditions on Friday.

Please don't get me wrong...I'm not angry or defensive...just trying to learn here. I'm an enthusiast myself and have only been working here for a few months so I've been on your side of the fence and mine Posted Image I find all this facinating as this business model while not brand new, it's still a very new thing to most consumers and I'm just trying to learn the thought processes etc.

Thanks.

Sean
Owner, Skiing Ninja