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HATE 4:3 - TV on DVD....


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74 replies to this topic

#1 of 75 OFFLINE   Brent_H

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Posted October 01 2002 - 04:33 AM

Okay, I know a lot of you guys can't stand full-frame transfers and there are even some of you who won't watch a DVD unless it is in OAR.....so here's a question: what do you do about watching TV seasons on DVD? I absdlutely LOVE that a lot of TV-series are coming out to DVD now. I have The Simpsons, Buffy, Friends, Real World and Project Greenlight. Well, when I had a 4:3 TV I was fine with it obviously, but now that I have my 16:9 I am finding it harder and harder to watch my 4:3 TV shows on it! I am slowly getting used to my DTV stretching the picture, but it still is kind of annoying. What do you all think of this? Do any of you have a hard time watching your FAVORITE TV shows in 4:3...stretching them to 16:9? I know I could actually watch it in 4:3, but my poor TV will hate me!!! Brent

#2 of 75 OFFLINE   Ricky Hustle

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Posted October 01 2002 - 04:48 AM

I dont watch a whole lot of 4:3 on my widescreen. If it looks OK stretched, I'll watch it stretched, the Simpsons come to mind. Star Trek gets watched in its OAR, on the other hand. Your TV will be fine as long as you limit your 4:3 viewing sessions to an hour or two.

#3 of 75 OFFLINE   GlennH

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Posted October 01 2002 - 04:53 AM

On my 16:9 TV (Pioneer Elite 58") I watch 4:3 DVDs like TV programs and older movies in their 4:3 OAR, with black bars on the sides (supplied automatically by the Panasonic RP91 DVD player in progressive scan mode). I watch enough widescreen material and have the TV properly calibrated (contrast, brightness, etc.) such that there is no serious concern about screen burn, and I've noticed no such problems. For non-critical run of the mill cable TV viewing we typically use the Natural Wide mode to fill the screen.

#4 of 75 OFFLINE   Thomas T

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Posted October 01 2002 - 04:54 AM

Post deleted.

#5 of 75 OFFLINE   Brent_H

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Posted October 01 2002 - 04:59 AM

bah.....OAR.....I mean to say ANAMORPHIC. Too many acronyms. My apologies. I have to say, I don't necessarily mind watching thingsin 4:3....I just am concerned with burn in with those GRAY bars on the sides.....but I guess, yeah. If its only for a couple hours at a time, it should be ok.

#6 of 75 OFFLINE   Richard Kim

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Posted October 01 2002 - 05:10 AM

[quote] I have to say, I don't necessarily mind watching thingsin 4:3....I just am concerned with burn in with those GRAY bars on the sides. [quote]
Then how do you feel about watching 2.35:1 material on your TV? Wouldn't the black bars be more harmful to the TV than gray bars?

#7 of 75 OFFLINE   Lew Crippen

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Posted October 01 2002 - 05:14 AM

It’s my view that if a TV show is good enough to (re)watch on DVD, its good enough that I won’t distort the picture (though I do appreciate Rick’s distinction).
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#8 of 75 OFFLINE   Steve Phillips

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Posted October 01 2002 - 05:20 AM

I watch all DVDs in the OAR. If I have a 4X3 DVD of a TV series, I wouldn't think of streching or cropping. That's just as bad as panned and scanned movies. I will admit that if I am just watching some dumb show like AMERICAN IDOL or the news I will put in in a wider mode. Why all the concern over burn in? Were you all worried when you had 4X3 sets when you watched widescreen films? Set your TV properly for contrast and brightness, and you don't have to worry. You can watch 4X3 stuff for longer than one hour! Just don't leave it like that all the time. I've never had a problem with burn in yet. I do have a tube 16X9 set. Are RPTVs really that sensitive?

#9 of 75 OFFLINE   Brent_H

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Posted October 01 2002 - 05:25 AM

[quote] Then how do you feel about watching 2.35:1 material on your TV? Wouldn't the black bars be more harmful to the TV than gray bars? [quote]

From my understanding, the black bars aren't nearly as harmful as the grey ones. Darker colors don't tend to burn in as much as brighter ones. Also, I go by my TV manual. It mentions that not all widescreen DVD's will totally fill up my screen (depending on aspect ratio obviously) but it says to AVOID 4:3 viewing as much as possible. So I guess that tells me that the black bars are less of an issue.

#10 of 75 OFFLINE   David Lambert

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Posted October 01 2002 - 05:27 AM

I watch everything on my 16x9 tube television in it's OAR. Period. And I watch a LOT of TV-on-DVD, as everyone here knows very well. I've had zero problems with my screen looking like it will suffer burn-in. As Glenn indicated, proper calibration goes a long way. And I mix it up a lot with 4x3 stuff, 2.35:1 stuff, and proper 16x9 stuff. I never stretch or justify, and I only zoom for non-anamorphic letterbox films. I'm happy. Richard, you have an interesting point about 2.35:1 films. Which leads me to think out loud here that perhaps the greatest danger for burn-in is in the corners, where the picture gets the least use between 2.35:1 films and the 4x3 stuff.
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#11 of 75 OFFLINE   Sean Aaron

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Posted October 01 2002 - 05:31 AM

I've posted elsewhere about this. Since most broadcast television in the UK (where I live) is 14:9 or 16:9 (usually films on ITV or Channel 4) I just leave the set on Natural Wide mode which does a combination of stretch/zoom on 4:3 stuff and leaves it quite watchable. I would view in OAR, but on my tube set the sides of the image look convex and I find that more annoying than slight image distortion and minimal image loss.

#12 of 75 OFFLINE   Brian McHale

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Posted October 01 2002 - 05:45 AM

[quote] From my understanding, the black bars aren't nearly as harmful as the grey ones. Darker colors don't tend to burn in as much as brighter ones. [quote]

Actually, you're right about dark colors burning in less, but wrong about black being better than gray.

You're not really worried about burn in, per se, but uneven burn in. Any time you watch anything on your TV, there will be some burn in. If you have black bars on part of the screen, that part will burn in LESS than the part you're watching. This is why TVs put up gray bars: they're trying to burn in the sides along with the center, to prevent uneven burn in.

If your DVD player puts up black bars, and you watched A LOT of 4x3 material (especially if your contrast was too high), you'd be in danger of uneven burn in. If you watched A LOT of 2.35:1 material, you'd be in danger of the same problem.

What I do to help with all this is watch most TV shows in stretch mode, as long as the distortion doesn't become annoying (my Toshiba does a very good job, so this isn't normally a problem). This means that more than 50% of the time, I'm getting even burn in.

I watch all movies in OAR.

Generally speaking, I don't put TV shows on the same artistic level with movies. On DVD, however, I'll probably watch them in OAR.
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#13 of 75 OFFLINE   Rain

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Posted October 01 2002 - 06:00 AM

I would only watch 1.37:1 films in the 4:3 mode. Having recently picked up the MTM Season One set, I am watching that in 4:3 mode. I don't really watch enough broadcast TV for that to even be an issue.
"Imagine all the people, living life in peace..." - Imagine by John Lennon

#14 of 75 OFFLINE   Sam Davatchi

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Posted October 01 2002 - 06:12 AM

I watch all my DVDs in OAR on my widescreen. 4:3 in 4:3 and wide in wide. I watch a lot of Star Trek TNG, MASH and friends lately. However I always watch the TV programs in 16:9 mode unless it’s a movie which they usually crop to 1.85 and I use the zoom.

#15 of 75 OFFLINE   David Lambert

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Posted October 01 2002 - 06:11 AM

[quote] Generally speaking, I don't put TV shows on the same artistic level with movies. [quote]

[/url]
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#16 of 75 OFFLINE   Jan Strnad

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Posted October 01 2002 - 06:16 AM

Brian McHale, Yeah, a lot of people think that somehow the black bars are burning the screen, when the opposite is true. It's the picture that's burning in the screen, not the bars; so the gray bars are an attempt to burn the screen evenly, as you said. Jan
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#17 of 75 ONLINE   Ted Todorov

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Posted October 01 2002 - 06:39 AM

Guys, I have an even better suggestion to prevent burn in -- just keep the TV off at all times. Posted Image

I mean come on now -- I never worry about the black bars on the top and bottom -- why should I suddenly start worrying about the black bars on the sides??? I've got the TV in 'movie' mode, which turns the brightness and contrast down. That's it in terms of burn in prevention so far as I'm concerned. By the time uneven burn in becomes visible, the darned thing will be way past ready for an upgrade...

Everything gets watched in OAR -- if it is worth watching at all, then it is worth watching in OAR.

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#18 of 75 OFFLINE   Mark Bendiksen

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Posted October 01 2002 - 06:44 AM


I have a Toshiba widescreen, and my current philosphy is as follows:

* I always watch movies in their OAR...period.

* 4:3 TV shows on DVD: It depends. The Simpsons doesn't look bad in Toshiba's stretch mode, probably due to the fact that it's a cartoon. However, something like Mary Tyler Moore I would probably watch in its correct aspect ratio.

* 4:3 TV shows on TV: Very often I'll use Toshiba's stretch mode for these, mainly due to the fact that I'm a little paranoid about burn-in and it doesn't look all that bad. Besides, let's face it. I love Everybody Loves Raymond, but it's not Citizen Kane. Sometimes compromises have to be made.

* Letterboxed TV shows/movies: I obviously use Toshiba's zoom mode for these.

Posted Image


#19 of 75 OFFLINE   Wayne Bundrick

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Posted October 01 2002 - 07:26 AM

The owner's manual advising you to avoid 4:3 is just the manufacturer's way of dodging liability for burn-in. They ship RPTVs with the contrast cranked to blowtorch levels so that the screen will be bright in a daylight filled room, but they don't want to be liable for the burn-in this causes. They just want to sell more sets, and bright screens are what sells.
Wayne Bundrick

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#20 of 75 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted October 01 2002 - 07:31 AM

[quote] Generally speaking, I don't put TV shows on the same artistic level with movies. [quote]
Generally speaking, 90% of everything is shit.

The 10 percent of that remains deserves to be watched the way it was originally composed, whether it be movie or 'tv'.




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