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My DVD player dispays 2:35 as 1:85


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#1 of 42 OFFLINE   Rich K

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Posted September 28 2002 - 07:07 AM

I have a JVC player. It works OK but it doesn't dispay the correct aspect ratios. When setup in 16:9 auto modes it displays a 2:35 move as 1:85 and a 1:85 movie taking up the entire wide screen with no blacksbars top and bottom. There should be a small amount of black top and bottom at 1:85. In 4:3 mode it dispays the correct ratios but these, I believe, are letterboxed and therefore, have less resolution in the display area. (Although I must admit I can't see any less res. Any ideas?

#2 of 42 OFFLINE   nolesrule

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Posted September 28 2002 - 07:30 AM

Unless your TV is capable of doing anamorphic squeeze to take advantage of the increased resolution, you need to use the 4:3 letterbox mode of your DVD player, not the 16:9 mode.

#3 of 42 OFFLINE   Jack Briggs

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Posted September 28 2002 - 07:47 AM

What kind of TV do you have, Rich? Because, as Joe says, if you don't have a 16:9 set, or a 4:3 set with a 16:9 mode, you need to tell your JVC player to output in the 4:3 letterbox mode.

#4 of 42 OFFLINE   Craig Rosenthal

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Posted September 29 2002 - 02:22 AM

Quote:
There should be a small amount of black top and bottom at 1:85.


Rich,
All TV's employ some sort of overscan - essentially cropping off some of the picture on all 4 sides. Ideally, this will be 3-5% on each edge, and can be verified with one of the calibration DVDs (AVIA, Video Essentials, etc.). You don't want 0% overscan, as you may see some unintended things on the edges (uneven edges, closed-captioning information on the top, and other anomolies).

As such, on a 16:9 (which equals about 1.78:1) set, a 1.85:1 anamorphic DVD will completly fill the screen (i.e., the very thin black bars you might be expecting will be beyond the edge of the screen. Similarly, a 2.35:1 image will have black bars on the top and bottom.

#5 of 42 OFFLINE   Rich K

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Posted September 29 2002 - 10:12 AM

Thanks guys for your reply. My set is 16.9. If a 1:85 pic would go from top to bottom on my set, it would also do so in letterboxed form, but it doesnt' Besides a 2:35 pic has a lot of black bar area top to bottom. There's no way my set could be ovescanning that much. Besides, the 2:35 on my player goes all the way up so as to show just a small amount of black bars top and bottom. This can't be correct! Last night I played "Panic Room". It is in 2:40 but played at 1:85. But the trailer included, played properly at 2:40! Again if I play the movie with the player configured for 4:3, the proper aspect ratios appear.

#6 of 42 OFFLINE   chung_sotheby

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Posted September 30 2002 - 02:14 AM

Rich, if your set is a 16:9 set, then there should be no "black bars" on the top or bottom when playing a 1.85 movie, like Saving Private Ryan or AI. 1.85 is roughly equivalent to 16:9, so there should be no black bars whatsoever on the top or bottom. The image SHOULD fill the entire screen. Now, with 2.25(or greater) film ratios, like those found on Panic Room and Ben Hur, there should be small "black bars" running on the top and bottom of your screen. The whole idea of the 16:9 set is to accomodate 1.85 and greater ratio formats, such as those found on Film and on new HDTV signals. There should be as little "black bars" on the tops and bottoms as possible. I think that you are equating the size of the letterbox "black bars" as the proper ratio, which is simply not the case. If I were you, and you are sure that your TV is a 16:9 set (more rectangular than square), then I would put the Saving Private Ryan, or any other 1.85, dvd in you player. If you have a 16:9 set, then the image should fill the entire screen.

#7 of 42 OFFLINE   MarcS

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Posted September 30 2002 - 08:26 AM

And, it depends specifically on what brand TV you have. I have an "older" Pioneer (i.e. ~2 years old) that locks into full screen mode with a progressive signal. On the JVC deck I have there are 2 16:9 modes, if I don't use the proper one for the Pioneer, the image won't display correctly--if I remember, a 2.35 image fills the screen instead of being "letterboxed"--just like your problem...

#8 of 42 OFFLINE   Jeff Gatie

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Posted October 01 2002 - 01:35 AM

Rich, it sounds like your TV may be set to one of it's 'zoom' modes. If the 2.35:1 displays with no wierd stretching, your TV is probably in the 'zoom' mode used for non-anamorphic DVD's. Switch your TV to 'Full' mode and you should see the black bars for 2.35:1 movies. The clue to the problem is that when you played the non-anamorphic trailer for Panic Room, it displays correctly (I am assuming the trailer is non-anamorphic, correct me if I'm wrong). So more than likely the non-anamorphic zoom mode is in use.

#9 of 42 OFFLINE   Rich K

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Posted October 02 2002 - 01:37 PM

Gentlemen, I still disagree with you. A widescreen 16:9 set has an aspect ratio of 1.78. Anything greater than 1:78 should have some black bars, like 1:85. My overscan is 2%. That is not enough to fill the screen. I would like to stress that the DVD disc in anamorphic is suppossed to display the original theatrical aspect ratio. I can assure you all that a 2:35 picture will have over 25% of the screen in black bars, if it is "properly displayed. Just do the math. A 1:78 picture would fill the screen, a 1:85 would have about 5-10% black bars. A 2:35 would have 25%. Now if all your sets have less than 5% overscan and all of you have filled screens with 1:85, then I would say that the DVD players are not set to display the true aspect ratios.

#10 of 42 OFFLINE   Rich K

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Posted October 02 2002 - 02:00 PM

Jeff, I am not using zoom modes because you lose too much picture information. I use a full mode where 98-99% of the picture is displayed.

#11 of 42 OFFLINE   David Ely

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Posted October 02 2002 - 03:01 PM

Rich,

The DVD player is more than capable of displaying the correct aspect ratio.

When viewing a film in 4:3 mode, do you see more pictures on the side when compared to 16:9 mode? If so, there's definately an overscan issue on your set.
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#12 of 42 OFFLINE   BruceSpielbauer

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Posted October 02 2002 - 03:32 PM

<<>>>

Rich, you are essentially correct (although I have not seen anywhere near 10% black masking bars on my 1:85:1 DVDs.) I think there is much confusion on this thread, and a lack of specifics.

For starters, can you describe the approximate size of the masking bands you are currently seeing and please _name the DVD_ to better help us make comparisons?

On my 16 X 9, with my DVD player set to dislay the picture properly (since it must be "told" that I have a 16 X 9 set), I see the following:

1:85:1 Anamorphic (or 1:85:1 enhanced for widescreen TV)-- I barely see ANY black masking bars. Barely. I have a 65" Mits, and we are talking perhaps less than an inch in height. I realize that part of the reason they are so small is that my set does have about 5% overscan (it is a Mits, and they ship that way on purpose). These masking bands at the top and bottom are so tiny that you are never quite certain if they are there unless the room light is extremely bright, on my set... it just appears to be a part of the black trim surrounding the picture, it is so small. I have to literally get up from my chair (11" away) and walk toward the set to actually see that there are masking bands.

1:85:1, but NOT anamorphic -- Now, I can actually see the masking bands, but they are still rather small. Never a distraction, even. Perhaps 3 to 4 inches in height, for each masking band.

2:35:1 Anamorphic -- NOW, the masking bands becomes obvious. Now, I see it, at the beginning of each and every film, until the content begins to "take me away."

2:35:1, but NOT Anamorphic -- Now, the horizontal aspect of the picture seems actually emphasized. Those bands appear, and they appear quite wide.

Now, let us know some DVD titles, and tell us specifically what you see. And, it may be important to know the model of your set, your DVD player, and what the names of the various "aspect formats" are on your set (i.e., "standard," or "stretched" or "zoom" or "natural" or "enhanced" or "expanded," etc.

-Bruce in Chi-Town

#13 of 42 OFFLINE   David Ely

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Posted October 03 2002 - 12:19 AM

Bruce,

It sounds like your set needs to be calibrated. There are probably hight and width settings that can be set for each individual mode that the TV enters.
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#14 of 42 OFFLINE   Rich K

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Posted October 08 2002 - 11:44 AM

One other thing, why do you assume the aspect ratios are different bewtween letterbox mode and 16:9 auto. Why should there be a difference? I believe there should not be a difference! Secondly, in the "Avia" disc, there is an aspect ratio area where different aspect ratio screens are shown. These compare in size to the way I have explained they should be. I also note that these are named as letterbox aspect ratios! I further note that there are no other aspect ratio screens on the "Avia" disc. I assure you that they do not have aspect ratio screens for any other category because they are the same!
Bruce, thankyou for your detailed reponse.All I can tell you is that my player is a JVC-XV723GD. If I play something like "Pearl Harbor" it displays the "proper" aspect ratios only when the player is set for 4:3 letterbox. When the player is set at 16:9 auto the picture is much bigger(taller) on my widescreen Tosh. 2:35 becomes 1:85. My overscan is under 2%.

#15 of 42 OFFLINE   Rich K

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Posted October 08 2002 - 11:46 AM

By the way guys, I just noted the picture of "2001" on Jack Briggs #3 post. That is a 2:35 picture and that is what should be seen in 16:9 auto! If it does appear this way you can see that there would be large black bars top and bottom. This is the ratio I only get in 4:3 letterbox from my player. In 16:9 auto on my widescreen I can't get the picture to look this way.

#16 of 42 OFFLINE   Steve Schaffer

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Posted October 08 2002 - 12:35 PM

Rich,

What make and model tv do you have, and what aspect ratio selection are you using on it?

On your JVC player you should be using 16/9 Normal, not 16/9 auto. 16/9 Normal enables it's scaling feature, 16/9 Auto turns it off. I know this sounds backwards.

When you play the movie Panic Room, you should have black bars at the top and bottom of screen if you have the tv's aspect ratio set to Full or whatever the equivalent is on your brand of tv.

If you have to, get out the manual for the tv and check to see which aspect ratio selection they tell you to use for anamorphic dvd.

It sounds to me like you have the tv set to Zoom for the aspect ratio which will stretch the picture vertically and horizontally, and will make the black bars not appear when playing a 2:35 movie with the player in 16/9 mode.

You said that the picture in the special features section of the Panic Room disc was filling the screen correctly, but not the movie itself.

The movie part of the disc is anamorphic, but the special features sections aren't. If the player was set at 16/9 Auto as you stated, it's scaling feature was turned off. This would make a non-anamorphic 2:35 image appear severely stretched horizontally with fairly large black bars if the set is in the correct aspect ratio for anamorphic dvd. Since you report that the special features fill the screen side to side and have smallish black bars, and don't report noticeable "short fat people" effect, I strongly suspect your tv is set to the wrong aspect ratio for anamorphic dvd.

The fact that you get a normal appearing picture on your tv by setting the player to 4/3 letterbox also indicates to me that the set is zooming the picture.

The only way a widescreen tv will present a properly proportioned picture when the player is in 4/3 letterbox mode is if it's zooming it.

Please double check the aspect ratio setting on your tv.
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#17 of 42 OFFLINE   Rich K

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Posted October 09 2002 - 10:08 AM

Steve, Thanks for your response. I tried Panic Room in both 16:9 Normal and Auto. Same exact size pic . By the way, I'm not in zoom. I'm in the full mode with little or no overscan. One thing I did notice the Teaser Trailer in 16:9 normal had black bars all around, but in Auto it was across the screen in 2:35. This seems to be letterboxed. There are much larger black bars top and bottom in the trailer. I'm beginning to think all players do this. If they do, they are not really dispaying the correct aspect ratio for widescreen sets in 16:9 mode. Steve, does your set and player also show a "wider" pic with the trailer in Panic Room? By the way I have a 65" Tosh HX-81. Very good set, great colors, crisp clear pic.

#18 of 42 OFFLINE   chung_sotheby

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Posted October 09 2002 - 10:27 AM

Rich, the reason why the image looks "wider" for the trailer is that the trailer is not anamorphic, and therefore the whole pixel information of each frame includes the black bars on the top and bottom. In other words, the regular movie is encoded anamophically, which means that the information of the moving picture is all that is stored on the disk. But the non-anamorphic trailer has the picture information and the information for the black bars, so the dvd player and/or the tv sees the black bars of the trailer as part of the whole image, so it puts in the full 4:3 information into the 16x9 screen, causing a "widening" of the image. But when you watch Panic Room the movie, there should be small (about 2-4" high, depending on the size of your set) bars on the top and bottom of the image. If these bars are larger, then your tv or dvd player is set up wrong. With 1.85 movies, like Saving Private Ryan and AI, there should be almost no black bars.

#19 of 42 OFFLINE   nolesrule

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Posted October 09 2002 - 05:18 PM

After RTFMing for a few minutes on Toshiba's website, I think I discovered you are using the wrong viewing mode.

You said you have the 65HX81, right? According to the manual, there are 5 modes:

0. Normal
1-3. Theater Wide 1-3
4. Full

According the the manual, the FULL mode should be used only to stretch a 4x3 picture proportionally to the width of the 16x9 set. In this mode, it assumes the signal it is receiving is non-anamorphic (what the manual calls "conventional"), which is why your 16x9 image appears too tall. Remember that a 16x9 anamorphic image output in 16x9 mode to a 4x3 TV will look too tall because a 4x3 TV assumes the singal is 4x3. In FULL mode, your TV also assumes the signal is 4x3.

Normal mode is for viewing 4x3 or non-anamorphic widescreen with bars on the sides.

The manual for your TV recommends using Theater Wide 1 mode for viewing anamorphic material.

So try Theater Wide 1.

#20 of 42 OFFLINE   Justin Gates

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Posted October 09 2002 - 05:50 PM

Joe is absolutely correct if you have a toshiba set, you should not be using the Full mode. That is most likely your problem.