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What happened to the diva's?


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35 replies to this topic

#1 of 36 OFFLINE   Matt Jesty

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Posted September 20 2002 - 04:13 PM

who' next?
Reading about audio equipment is like reading about wine, food, sex, art, far-off places...nice to do but hardly a substitute for experiancing these things first hand....
Trust is easier to establish face-to-face, than via correspondance...
Insider experts and Outsider experts will often lock...

#2 of 36 OFFLINE   Dan Hitchman

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Posted September 22 2002 - 04:47 PM

I think B&W speakers or some other manufacturer thought the Divas were "too close" to their own designs and probably put the fear of God (via their legal department) into the Swan speaker company.

A more likely scenario was that the competition muscled a small firm that made good speakers at a reasonable price because they were scared. You don't really thing many of the speakers in the market are worth the money asked for them, do you?

Dan

#3 of 36 OFFLINE   Rob Rodier

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Posted September 22 2002 - 05:36 PM

Quote:
I think B&W speakers or some other manufacturer thought the Divas were "too close" to their own designs and probably put the fear of God (via their legal department) into the Swan speaker company.


I think that the most likely scenario is that the people at Swan brewed up rumors that B&W gave a crap about about their tweeter design. Giving the false impression that the divas were in the same league as the NT lineup.

That is at least one of the rumors I heard elsewhere.

Now they are onto the next cow.

-rob

#4 of 36 OFFLINE   Sean D

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Posted September 23 2002 - 12:49 AM

Rob, do you really beleive that Swans would create such a rumor in order to drum up sales? The fact that AV123.com is no longer going to sell the Swan Divas due to the trade dress issue should be clear enough to most people that such a "rumor" wouldn't be a very wise business decision on the part of Swans. I'm sure that Swans isn't exactly happy about losing AV123 as the sole distributor for the Diva line that they built specifically for AV123. If you ask me , Swans would be shooting themselves in the foot by creating such a rumor.
My 2 cents.

#5 of 36 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted September 23 2002 - 02:01 AM

Quote:
I think that the most likely scenario is that the people at Swan brewed up rumors that B&W gave a crap about about their tweeter design. Giving the false impression that the divas were in the same league as the NT lineup.

That is at least one of the rumors I heard elsewhere.

Now they are onto the next cow.
I heard that the owner of Swan was the 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll and that the CIA wanted him to stop selling his brainwashing speakers in the US so they faked the whole thing so that AV123 would dump them.

Actually, that's not the reason. It sounds about as realistic as your explanation though.

I do know the real reason why AV123 has dropped the Divas, but can not post it here. If you really want to know call up AV123 and ask Mark. He might just tell you. Posted Image

Seth

#6 of 36 OFFLINE   Arron H

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Posted September 23 2002 - 02:17 AM

Quote:
I do know the real reason why AV123 has dropped the Divas, but can not post it here. If you really want to know call up AV123 and ask Mark. He might just tell you.


Oh come on, no teasing allowed on this forum! Posted Image But seriously, why can't you post the true reason?

#7 of 36 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted September 23 2002 - 03:00 AM

Quote:
Oh come on, no teasing allowed on this forum! Posted Image But seriously, why can't you post the true reason?
Because Mark told a group of us "off the record" at a meet. So as a result I can't post what he told us. Like I said if you want to know call him up and ask. He might just tell you.

Seth

#8 of 36 OFFLINE   DennisMc

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Posted September 23 2002 - 04:01 AM

Think it's coincidence that the Wharfedale Pacific line which also had the top mounted tweeter, was also redesigned with a traditional mounting ? Trade dress infringement is quite real.

#9 of 36 OFFLINE   Rob Rodier

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Posted September 23 2002 - 05:53 AM

Quote:
I do know the real reason why AV123 has dropped the Divas, but can not post it here. If you really want to know call up AV123 and ask Mark. He might just tell you.


Probably because they got the Rockets, which are even better!

The last thing I am going to do is to call AV123, I could not care less. I am extremely happy with my "traditional" speakers.

The one question that I would like answered is; even if B&W did put the heat on Swan about the tweeter enclosure, why would that put them out of business? It seems that if these speakers are as good as everyone said they are a simple redesign to conceal the teardrop enclosure would fix things right up.

I am a graduate student, and I realize that I don't know everything, but I would be very upset if I bought these speakers. They should have seen this coming, especially if;

Quote:
Think it's coincidence that the Wharfedale Pacific line which also had the top mounted tweeter, was also redesigned with a traditional mounting ? Trade dress infringement is quite real.


Others companies do use similar designs for their tweeters. The Morel Octwin uses a design that it not too far off.


-rob

#10 of 36 OFFLINE   Lew Crippen

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Posted September 23 2002 - 06:23 AM

Quote:
I am a graduate student, and I realize that I don't know everything, but I would be very upset if I bought these speakers. They should have seen this coming, especially if;
While I don’t have Diva speakers, I would not be upset if I did own them. After all their essential characteristics regarding sound reproduction, the style of the cabinets and the quality of the finish would unchanged from the time of purchase. They would still sound and look as good as when they were purchased. If anyone who purchased the speakers was dissatisfied the time to complain would be immediately after receiving them, not after a different speaker became available.

Even if (and I don not subscribe to the conspiracy theory) a new speaker line had been planned all along, there is no reason for owners to be upset. After all, manufactures, product distributors and marketers all look to improve existing products and supplant current models with different ones at some point. Everyone knows that. I for one, do not want products to remain the same, without change. And either reduced prices or new, better models at the same price as they become abailable.
¡Time is not my master!

#11 of 36 OFFLINE   Matt Lopp

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Posted September 23 2002 - 06:36 AM

Quote:
Think it's coincidence that the Wharfedale Pacific line which also had the top mounted tweeter, was also redesigned with a traditional mounting ? Trade dress infringement is quite real.


That's actually B.S.

The top mounted tweeter is a functional charateristic of the B&W's. Functional features of a product are NOT afforded trademark-type protection (such as trade dress protection). Such protection is only afforded non-functional characteristics of a product.

B&W could only legitimately put the "heat on" if they have patents on the top mounted tweeter.

#12 of 36 OFFLINE   Rob Rodier

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Posted September 23 2002 - 06:42 AM

Quote:
While I don’t have Diva speakers, I would not be upset if I did own them. After all their essential characteristics regarding sound reproduction, the style of the cabinets and the quality of the finish would unchanged from the time of purchase. They would still sound and look as good as when they were purchased. If anyone who purchased the speakers was dissatisfied the time to complain would be immediately after receiving them, not after a different speaker became available.


What is something breaks? What if you need service?

Quote:
The top mounted tweeter is a functional charateristic of the B&W's. Functional features of a product are NOT afforded trademark-type protection (such as trade dress protection). Such protection is only afforded non-functional characteristics of a product.


That is what I thought, thank you for addressing that.

-rob

#13 of 36 OFFLINE   Rob Rodier

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Posted September 23 2002 - 06:54 AM

Quote:
Even if (and I don not subscribe to the conspiracy theory) a new speaker line had been planned all along, there is no reason for owners to be upset. After all, manufactures, product distributors and marketers all look to improve existing products and supplant current models with different ones at some point. Everyone knows that. I for one, do not want products to remain the same, without change. And either reduced prices or new, better models at the same price as they become abailable.


If you look at the past history of reputible manufacturers products, they usually last quite a while and only a breakthrough will warrant a new line or replacement. This crap about how you need something new every 8 months is rediculous. Do it fast vs do it right. Sadly, in most cases fast wins.

-rob



#14 of 36 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted September 23 2002 - 07:19 AM

Quote:
What if something breaks? What if you need service?
You call AV123 and get a replacement driver sent to you and you swap it out. If it's out of warranty you call up Parts Express and buy the driver. Every driver in the Divas can be bought from Parts Express.

Seth

#15 of 36 OFFLINE   Rob Rodier

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Posted September 23 2002 - 07:28 AM

Quote:
Every driver in the Divas can be bought from Parts Express.


Even the tweeter?Posted Image

That is good to hear for the Swan owners. I have no such luck with my Platinum Solos Posted Image


-rob

#16 of 36 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted September 23 2002 - 07:29 AM

Rob, you seem a tad misinformed about the history of this speaker. The Divas have been around for years, have received damn near universal praise, both for their performance and for the customer service of their distributor, AV123. They were redesigned as the "Onix Rockets" with a baffle-mounted tweeter after B&W's issues regarding trade-dress, but all warranties remain in effect and AV123 continues to go above and beyond the call to satisfy Diva owners. I've never witnessed nor personally experienced the level of customer support offered on behalf of the Diva line by AV123. And, beyond that, all drivers are easily available... partsexpress carries them.

This is not idle speculation or hearsay on my part. After Mark Shifter's announcement last June regarding the end of the Divas and the introduction of the Rockets, I had a decision to make. For a variety reasons - including price, port position, laid-back vs. forward presentation - I decided to purchase the Divas and received them at the beginning of this month. I can honestly say I've never been more pleased by an audio purchase nor the level of service I received from Sean, Steve and Mark at AV123. To say that I'm a happy customer would be an enormous understatement.

Models come and models go. B&W forced the issue a bit, to be sure, but go ask someone with discontinued Klipsch Heresies if they're happy.

Or ask me about my Divas! Posted Image

Likewise, ask David Boulet about the successor to the Divas... the Rockets. I'm sure he'll field your queries here: http://www.hometheat....threadid=97038
"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."

#17 of 36 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted September 23 2002 - 07:33 AM

Quote:
If you look at the past history of reputible manufacturers products, they usually last quite a while and only a breakthrough will warrant a new line or replacement. This crap about how you need something new every 8 months is rediculous. Do it fast vs do it right. Sadly, in most cases fast wins.
Quick, put your tinfoil beanie hat on before AV123 reads your thoughts. I'd bet you've probably never heard either speaker. The fact is that the Rockets are a breakthrough. Your public bashing of AV123 based off non-factual conspiracy theories is completely off base. You know about 15% of the story and are trying to jump to conclusions.

Like I said I know the real reasons (there is more than one) and none of you are anywhere near them. There are very good reasons why AV123 retired the Diva line after such a short run. They were not a stop-gap measure to sell to people until the Rockets were finished. The Rockets were not planned from the beginning. They were made as a result of the same circumstances that caused the Diva line to be discontinued. I'm afraid I can't tell you any more than that.

I can assure you there is no conspiracy here. Events will unfold in the future that will likely surprise you about the Divas.

Seth

#18 of 36 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted September 23 2002 - 07:35 AM

Quote:
Even the tweeter?
Yes, even the tweeter.

Seth

#19 of 36 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted September 23 2002 - 07:41 AM

Quote:
They were redesigned as the "Onix Rockets" with a baffle-mounted tweeter after B&W's issues regarding trade-dress...
This is not really correct. The Rockets are a new ground up design from AV123. They had Dick Pierce design them. The Divas are Swan's design and AV123 acted at the sole distributor of them. AV123 helped Swan with their Quality Control and process to build a more consistent product, but the design of the Divas is not that of AV123. The whole B&W thing is not really what caused the demise of the Divas.

Seth

#20 of 36 OFFLINE   Rich Malloy

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Posted September 23 2002 - 08:10 AM

True enough. According to Mark Schifter:

Quote:
[The Onix Rockets] are not just an evolutionary step… but more… they really advance the entire DIVA thought and design process in every sense. Why… because we have the power of hindsight on our side, and we could clearly optimize all of the parameters in this “second step” so to speak. As an example we have “partnered” with the original inventor / manufacturer of the DIVA shape (cabinets) and style, and redid every important element. These new computer–optimized designs are more optimally shaped, and use very special integrated bracing techniques which results in a cabinet that does not “talk” in any way. The results are just outstanding. It’s all there… resolution of the fine details, superb dynamics, with unmatched focus AND slam. But let’s not stop there. We achieved this by calling on the very best technical people we know of… and creating “our sound” from the first day… our very own “sonic signature”.

We hired the best driver and crossover designer in the world (in my opinion)… the legendary Dick Pierce, and we custom designed every element in these speakers from top to bottom (outside of the world famous VIFA XT-Series Ring Radiator Tweeter which we buy direct from VIFA in Denmark). These speakers will re-define their price classes once again. http://www.avsforum.....postid=1175956

"Only one is a wanderer;
Two together are always going somewhere."


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