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Again with the cheatin A.I. (NFL 2k3)


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#1 of 17 OFFLINE   Eric Bass

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Posted September 13 2002 - 06:57 AM

NFL 2K3

My one gripe with this game is the AI and it's tendancy to cheat. I was a Madden 2002 player but I ditched the series this year because I was sick of the 4th quarter BS cheating by the AI. Well I'm not finding much different in Sega land. About every game I play is a see-saw. If the computer is ahead I can force a 3 and out, if I'm ahead I'm lucky to get them to 2nd or 3rd down once during a drive. I don't know how many of my losses come from situations like 21-17 4th quarter 35 seconds to go AI throws bomb to wide open reciever who either spin/jukes through my coverage or just plain outruns them for the winning TD. Let me tell you it happens to me CONSTANTLY. That or just a series of 20-30 yard passes till the TD, same end result either way. I have also found when I score first in a game I will always wind up playing catchup later on. However if the AI scores first then I find my matching score comes way too easily. Maybe some programmer figured it'd be more exciting to force close games, but for me it's a real spoiler.

Where's the fun when you know the final 2 minutes are all that matters?

I fully expect some games to get just worked, some games that by the 1/2 I'm way up, and of course lots of nice close games. So far however it seems as though the games are scripted to keep things neck and neck every time. I'm tempted to also bring up the fact that I have not once seen any team miss a FG when the AI is at the helm, but I'll save that for another conversation.

Maybe I'm over reacting and maybe some of this is my imagination, I'd be curious to hear other people's experiences. I know some people prefer this type of thing since they get bored of just destroying the computer team every game, but for me personally it really sucks a lot of the fun out of it.

I'll finish by reiterating that this is my ONE gripe with the game. Maybe it's just a matter of me not being able to manually cover the computer's designated bitch reciever during bomb plays, so it may be a drawback that can be over come. This isn't a rant thread, I just want some other unbiased opinions from some of the rest of you 2k3 players.

#2 of 17 OFFLINE   Dave Falasco

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Posted September 13 2002 - 08:13 AM

Eric, I am right there with you. After playing about 20 games against the computer, I am of the opinion that the CPU plays one way for most of the game, and then all the rules change in the final 4 minutes of the game. Suddenly, runners that I have been stopping in the backfield or after a short gain are breaking 5 and 6 tackles for tremendous gains, while my guy gets taken down at the first hint of contact, no matter how much I jam on the juke or spin buttons (and I have practiced juking and spinning in scrimmages for hours, now). My receivers flat-out miss passes if they are wide open, or catch them and immediately drop them if a DB hits them, while the CPU's guys catch anything and everything, no matter who is on them. I have crushed receivers the very instant the ball comes to them, and they hang on to the ball. But my guys will catch the ball cleanly, take two steps, get hit, and drop the ball for an incomplete catch.

Or how about the speed of the players? If Santana Moss catches a pass and breaks free of the secondary, there's no way he should be caught from behind by anyone, much less a freaking linebacker. Yet he is. But if the computer gets past you, even with a halfback, forget about it, he's gone. Take all the angles you want, hammer on speed burst, you are not going to catch him.

But it's still the broken tackles when the computer needs to score that burn me the most. Time and time again, it will be 3rd and 6 or something and I know damn well that the computer is going to run it. I call a goalline defense, and select all blitz to plug up every single hole. Handoff to (for example) Ricky Williams. Hit him in the backfield, he spins off. Hit him again at the line of scrimmage with 2 guys, he stiffarms them away. Hit him with another linebacker, spins away again. Dive at him with a fully-charged safety, spin again. In replays I have counted 6 broken tackles in crucial situations that led to either scores or very long runs. 6!!! Are you kidding me?!?! But when it comes time for my guy to run, I can't break a tackle from the waterboy.

I have been going to bed in a furious rage the last two nights from this kind of crap. I know, I take the game too seriously, but dammit, that is not right. One more example--on a crucial 4th and 4 last night I had to go for the first. I called a short passing play and dumped the ball to my FB in the flat. All the rest of my receivers ran deep routes, so there was no one around him. All he had to do was catch the ball and he had the first down and more. I lob it to him nice and gently, and he doesn't even make a play. The ball sails softly right past him and falls incomplete. Turnover on downs. WTF?!?!? I called the right play for the situation and executed it perfectly. I've run that damn play in practice mode 2 dozen times and he catches it every time. But no, the CPU needed the ball back so by God my FB was not going to catch that ball.

I'm actually giving up on this game for a week or so. I can't take the aggravation and frustration. This is not why I play video games.

#3 of 17 OFFLINE   Eric Bass

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Posted September 13 2002 - 08:28 AM

Aaah thanks for the reply, I feel a bit better now at least knowing it's not my imagination. Unfortunately with programmers both on EA and Sega's side doing the same thing, there isn't much option to get a sports game that doesn't cheat against you. At the very least it'd be nice to have way to disable it for those of us who favor realism over sheer excitement and challenge.

#4 of 17 OFFLINE   Scott Van Dyke

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Posted September 13 2002 - 09:03 AM

I just have to laugh with you guys on this one. I haven't bought a football game since Madden '94, and it's for pretty much the same reasons. I agree, that the CPU does cheat, but what else are you gonna do?

Sidenote- I've actually blow my cool at my fiance for simply being fustrated at a videogame more than once. I'm not sure we have a choice sometimes...

#5 of 17 OFFLINE   BrandonG

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Posted September 13 2002 - 09:29 AM

[rant]I have to agree with Scott. I bought Madden every year since it came out and finally gave up with 1999(N64). I was the 49ers in the playoffs, playing in Pro mode, against the Packers. Well in Madden Reggie White is a god, so there is no stopping him. I think he sacked me 15-20 times in one game, it was unbelievable. It didn't help that on every 3rd down, they would sack me, no matter what play I ran. I replayed the game 3 times, with the same outcome, so right before the end of the 3rd game I reset it and swore off all sports game from that day. I saved myself from a ton of frustration.[/rant]

#6 of 17 OFFLINE   Tim Markley

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Posted September 13 2002 - 12:24 PM

Quote:
But it's still the broken tackles when the computer needs to score that burn me the most
This is really what's been keeping me from enjoying NFL2K3. I was ahead 31-0 in a game at halftime. In the second half, the other team was unstoppable and my guys couldn't block, catch, run, etc. I'd hit the CPU controlled RB 6 or 7 times before he'd go down and my RB, Curtis Martin, always went down on the first touch. I was still ahead 31-28 with 2 minutes left and I was running out the clock. I had a 3rd and five at around the 50 yard line and called a screen pass to my FB. The defense blitzed and I waited for the LB to come in and then pressed the button to throw the ball out to my wide open RB. The stupid pass went straight up in the air and was intercepted by the LB!!!!! No tipped ball or anything (the LB wasn't close enough to tip it), just a pass right to the LB (who wasn't anywhere close to my RB). Absolutely ridiculous. I turned the game off after that play and haven't played the last 2 weeks. I can't stand games that cheat. Posted Image

#7 of 17 OFFLINE   Anthony Liz

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Posted September 13 2002 - 12:52 PM

If the AI is loosing expect for things to get hard. I use to think that the AI cheats (and sometimes it does), but after hours and hours of practice, I am much better. Last season my record was 12-4, #1 D pass and #1 D rush on PRO. Right now I'm 9-2, and again #1D rush/pass. Should be 10-1, but that's a long story.

Anyway, I think NFL 2K3 is the best football game I've ever played, and I've played them all Posted Image Almost every game is close. 17-14, 10-9, etc. Like I mentioned in the TIPS thread, this isn't like the rest of the football games where every team has an equal chance of winning. You have to know the opponents strength and weakness, and use that as an advantage.

Now that I have the hang of it, I don't think the game cheats. I have seen some bugs though, like the ball going through a player.
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#8 of 17 OFFLINE   Tom_J

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Posted September 13 2002 - 02:39 PM

I wouldn't necessarliy call the AI a cheat. If you're up at the half, it's up to YOU to keep that lead. I always look at the half time stats to give me an idea of what worked and what didn't in the first half.

I have seen teams (AI controlled) come out with a completely different plan of attack in the 2nd half. There are many adjustments to be made, you can't play the same way all the way through the game, especially defense. This game, by far of all the ones I played, rely heavily on play calling. If you see them picking apart the middle of yoru defense, call formations which defend heavily in the middle, and sacrifice the outs. If the TE is killing you, jam him on the line, double cover him. I've given up many-a-TDs due to bad play calling.

How many times do we see some player get completely shutdown at halftime in the NFL, but comes out and have a great second half? It's part of the game.

I got 4 losses in my first season as the Raiders on Pro, and just won against the Ravens in my 1st playoff game. Out of the 4 losses, I'd say I felt in one game I was robbed. I look at it as a part of the game. Teams do get robbed IRL. The ray-da's Posted Image are ranked 32 (last) in rushing, but 4th in pashing. I run when I need to and when I can. If it's not there, I don't force it. Raiders are ranked 1st in pass/rush defense, so we're shutting down some teams. But we don't shut down every team, every game, every drive.

About the LBs running down your fastest receiver. I read somewhere that is a known fault, and departure from the realism of the game. But there is a slider you can adjust to balance it out.

I think this is a fun game. Don't get so upset and not play it for two weeks. Posted Image

(putting flame-retardant suit on now)

#9 of 17 OFFLINE   Josh Lowe

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Posted September 13 2002 - 03:07 PM

There is nothing more that frustrates me than poorly-written AI. If the AI has to bend the rules of the game at the end, it's poor. Completely ruins the game for me.

#10 of 17 OFFLINE   Eric Bass

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Posted September 16 2002 - 02:00 AM

Quote:
Almost every game is close. 17-14, 10-9, etc.


Exactly my point, the AI fixes the game so that every game is close. When I'm getting killed and start a comeback, it kind of ruins it when I know the AI is simply letting me get a few scores to catch up. Just like knowing that my early lead is useless as the game will allow the other team to catch up before the end also tends to ruin the game for me. I'd prefer to believe that this isn't the case, but from the sounds of the replies here, I'm not the only person who has noticed this.

#11 of 17 OFFLINE   Steve Iseman

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Posted September 16 2002 - 02:40 AM

I only experienced this early on. In my first season with the Dolphins I had a 12-4 record and most games were pretty close. I won the superbowl against St. Louis with a last second field goal. I had the 3rd worse rush defense in the game.

In my second season of the franchise I have gone 16-0 (I had to bump it up to All-pro with the rushing slider set at about pro) and am about to start the playoffs. I only had two close games and no games where the computer really came from behind against me. My rush defense was now 2nd best in the league. I think things should get better for you with more practice.

I've never been run down from behind by a linebacker when I'm well ahead of him. I've only been around down by faster DB's. All I do is keep tapping the A button repeatedly.

#12 of 17 OFFLINE   Anthony Liz

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Posted September 16 2002 - 11:54 AM

Quote:
Exactly my point, the AI fixes the game so that every game is close. When I'm getting killed and start a comeback, it kind of ruins it when I know the AI is simply letting me get a few scores to catch up. Just like knowing that my early lead is useless as the game will allow the other team to catch up before the end also tends to ruin the game for me. I'd prefer to believe that this isn't the case, but from the sounds of the replies here, I'm not the only person who has noticed this.
Actually, the more you play, the better you get. I now average a one or two touchdown lead. I'm on my second season and I just reached the Super Bowl. My 2nd season was 13-3. I had #1 D rush, #1 Pass Rush, and a #1 Overall Rank. My D is much better now, and close games are fun. I have never lost a game where I was up 10 or more points.

Once I figured out how to play, I got a bit cocky, but I soon realized that no matter how good you are, you still have to play smart on O and D or the AI will have you for lunch Posted Image

I believe EVERYONE has gone through what you are posting Eric. I know I did, and people on game boards too, but it does require practice, and a good understanding of the game.

Anyway, I think it's time for ALL-PRO Posted Image
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#13 of 17 OFFLINE   Paul_Fisher

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Posted September 16 2002 - 02:40 PM

If you all don't want to hit the computer 6 times to bring him down, simply turn down the tackling slider a couple of notches and the problem is fixed.

If you think the computer is outrunning your guys, simply turn down the pursuit sliders.

Use the sliders! Thats what they are there for.

#14 of 17 OFFLINE   Brett Hancock

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Posted September 16 2002 - 04:35 PM

You guys I couldn't agree with you more. After owning and loving Nfl 2k1 for Dreamcast I decided to purchase Nfl 2k3 instead of madden for my ps2. Well I liked the game enough but it was the broken tackles when the computer needed to score that drove me over the edge. Also the fact that the online aspect is completely terrible. Laggy as hell, no reliability, no more then 50 people playing at a time. So yesterday I decided to buy Madden. I haven't regretted it for a second. Everyone who says that there aren't enough interceptions is honestly full of crap. It happens as realistically as it does in the NFL. Also the dropped passes that happened way to much in 2k3 do not happen as much in Madden. They happen when they should. When a reciever catched it up the middle and gets drilled they will drop the ball. And once or twice a game they drop a wideopen pass but its not like in Nfl 2k3 when my reciever with a 95 catch rating dropped 10 balls in one game. So thats just my 2 cents.

#15 of 17 OFFLINE   Steve Iseman

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Posted September 16 2002 - 05:31 PM

I completed 61% of my passes in the first year of my franchise with Jay Fiedler in NFL 2K3. In my second year I completed 69.5%. My receivers rarely drop any passes unless they are hit immediately or they have it knocked out of their hands. You also can't go by the drop passes stat in the game. For some reason they are always wrong. I've had games where I've thrown 10 passes to Chambers with 7 receptions and 6 drops. You do the math.

When I first started playing the game I also felt like there were too many dropped passes, but after my passing improved the dropped passes didn't occur quite as often. It seems a lot of you guys give up too quickly and don't put enough time into the game to become good at it.

#16 of 17 OFFLINE   Eric Bass

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Posted September 17 2002 - 03:28 AM

I didn't say anything about giving up. I just wanted to validate my personal belief that the computer is a cheater so I can keep from pulling my hair out every 4th quarter.

#17 of 17 OFFLINE   Dave_Olds

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Posted September 17 2002 - 04:22 AM

The computer does cheat....but dropped passes are not an issue in this game....not unless poorly thrown or QB under duress or off-balance - as is real...

As for the 4th quarter...That is where I just save all my running plays - to grind out the clock with them and the short passes...I think its critical to have time consuming drives...But then, it is in the NFL as well....In the two minute drill - all teams seem to come to life...I sometimes wonder why they just dont use the two minute drill the entire game... Posted Image





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