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Better ISF Calibration Report


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13 replies to this topic

#1 of 14 OFFLINE   errol

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Posted September 13 2002 - 12:28 AM

Hi ya folks,

New article from Michael TLV on a better way to present pre and post calibration results to the consumer.

It should turn on a few light bulbs for all of us. Posted Image

Thanks,
Errol
Keohi HDTV
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#2 of 14 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted September 13 2002 - 12:52 AM

Errol,

Thanks for sharing. Michael comes through again.

I for one use the software that comes with the Sencore Color Analyzer. This software graphs the data points in a non linear function by placing each IRE reading within a CIE chart. This clearly shows before and after accuracy.

Michael did a great job is showing people that 6500K is not really the correct way of describing an accurate gray scale reading. Generally, the higher the number the less red and more blue the image is. The lower the number the more red, less blue the image is. However green is not factored into to this. The amount of green does not effect the color temperature. So as with Michael's "furrypig" examples show, you can have a 6500 K image that is either has a green deficit or green gray scale push.

When calibrating a display device a calibrator actually calibrates to the D 6500 K temperature. The "D" is a specific setting where the proper amount of green is in the image to produce a neutral gray.

I hope my thoughts made sense.

Michael, thanks a bunch! Your thoughts are always welcome here at HTF!!!!

Regards

Gregg

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#3 of 14 OFFLINE   Erik_C

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Posted September 13 2002 - 01:17 AM

That's exactly what was the case with my XBR450. Pre-calibration, it tracked D6500, but was way too green. Post calibration, it tracked D6500, but the green tint was gone. The graphs looked the same, but the tv looked much, much better.
-Erik

#4 of 14 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted September 13 2002 - 01:58 AM

Erik I think you made a typo (?). If your set precalibration tracked 6500K D (note the "D") your set was gray scale accurate. It may have been 6500K but not the "D" which indicates the correct amount of green.

Your confusion is very common and that is why Michael is changing the way in which he reports to his clients.

Regards

Gregg

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#5 of 14 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted September 13 2002 - 02:06 AM

Greetings Gregg

The Sencore report uses the chroma triangle, right? I have seen an example or two of it ... where it shows the pre and the post stuff ...

But only for the 20 and 100 ire. Can you get it to plot the information at the other spots like 30/40/50/60/70/80 ?

Sort of like a shot gun blast scatter graph.

I had also thought about showing a diagram like this ... so I may add something like that later.

Regards
Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor/ISF Instructor
Lion A/V Consultants Network - TLVEXP.com


#6 of 14 OFFLINE   Gregg Loewen

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Posted September 13 2002 - 02:12 AM

By default it plots only the 2 (20 and 100) points. If you select extended (or whatever it is called), it will allow you to plot all 20-100 points.

Yeah, it looks alot like a scatter graph. It prints the before readings as o's and in red, the post readings are +'s and in black. And of course all the +'s are in the middle box which denotes D 6500K. Posted Image

Gregg

The Sonodome - circa 2001
The Newest Sonotube - circa 2001
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#7 of 14 OFFLINE   Michael TLV

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Posted September 13 2002 - 02:37 AM

Greetings

Strangely, the scatter graph is preferable to the standard linear graph, but you often have to look at it really closely to understand what it is trying to say ...

In the sense that the eyes do not really know what they should be focusing on so they tend to wander around the graph ...

I guess it is also graphically boring too. Posted Image

Regards
Michael @ The Laser Video Experience
THX Video Systems Instructor/ISF Instructor
Lion A/V Consultants Network - TLVEXP.com


#8 of 14 OFFLINE   JohnnyG

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Posted September 13 2002 - 11:08 AM

Here's a sample of the Sencore report. I do like the format but I wish it had the option of overlaying a colour image of the chromaticity graph over the data points. Even if the image was heavily dithered, I think it would really help drive the point home.

I certainly do like your approach Michael and I'm eager to plug some of my cal results into your spreadsheet to see how it looks!

#9 of 14 OFFLINE   Mark_Hunter

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Posted September 15 2002 - 09:00 PM

This is excellent feedback, and I am very interested in this topic.

What type of information would be useful on such a report? Today our product, ColorFacts presents the grayscale readings directly on a CIE chart, as well as the 2D Plot that Michael is improving with his technique.

In my personal opinion, the most useful graph for displaying improvement in the grayscale is a Red/Green/Blue error tracking chart. This displays how far the grayscale is from D65 (or any other chosen target) from black to white. It does take 2 of the charts to show changes from 'before' to 'after', however. It is still quite dramatic to see the differences, and this is an unbelievably intuitive way to show someone how you have improved their set.

We would be happy to hear any other suggestions you would like to provide us to help improve our product, and we would be honored to work with people who are as passionate about this industry as you are.

Thank You,

Mark Hunter
markh at milori dot com (re-join to contact me)
Milori, Inc.
www.colorfacts.com

#10 of 14 OFFLINE   JohnnyG

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Posted September 16 2002 - 10:05 AM

Mark, I haven't heard about your product before. It looks very interesting and I'm just now dowloading the software to take a look. How long has it been on the market?

#11 of 14 OFFLINE   JohnnyG

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Posted September 16 2002 - 10:06 AM

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#12 of 14 OFFLINE   errol

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Posted September 17 2002 - 07:06 AM

Hi Mark, interesting indeed.

r,
Errol

P.S., Gregg if you can get a good sample of the scatter graph, pls feel free to forward to me so I can post it.
Keohi HDTV
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#13 of 14 OFFLINE   Mark_Hunter

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Posted May 01 2003 - 05:16 PM

Hi Johnny G,

Sorry about the slow response.

ColorFacts is pretty new. It's only been on the market since fall, 2001.

Keeping the thread on topic: We have listened to Michael and Gregg (and others) and designed a flexible, extensible reporting Engine into ColorFacts 3.0. It has the D65 "3D" graphs as well as the more traditional charts. The reports can be printed, or exported to PDF files. I think that you (Michael and Gregg) will approve.

Mark

#14 of 14 OFFLINE   JohnnyG

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Posted May 02 2003 - 10:08 AM

Slow?! I'm amazed you found the thread again!

I've talked to Michael and he has plenty of nice things to say about it. I'm pretty much sold, but I have to wait until next June for my Sencore lease to expire!




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