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Sony DA5ES and DTS-ES Discrete


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146 replies to this topic

#1 of 147 OFFLINE   BrianDD

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Posted September 03 2002 - 09:46 AM

Is anyone else having problems with DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 on this reciever? I have found 2 DVDs (Blade 2, Evil Dead-Book of the Dead Edition) now that will not work correctly in 6.1. Reading though the receiver's manual, it says that the 6.1 mode must be set to auto in order to use the actual DTS-ES decoder. Whenever you hard set 6.1 to on it always uses Sony's DCMD matrix decoder and you don't get the actual discrete rear channel. On these two movies whenever I set the mode to auto I get no sound and the display flashes as if it can't lock in on the signal. When I switch 6.1 to on or off everthing is fine. I am using a Panasonic RP-56 DVD player optically connected to the receiver.

#2 of 147 OFFLINE   Angelo_Petralba

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Posted September 03 2002 - 10:03 AM

I have this same issue with Rush Hour 2 where it seems to not pick up the flag for DTS-ES ..I get the flashing speaker icons and no sound..I have a Toshiba SD-5700 DVD player and what I do is keep on switching the format till it picks it up (it sucks but it works sometimes).

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#3 of 147 OFFLINE   Terry Watkins

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Posted September 03 2002 - 10:02 AM

I do not have these two dvds, but when I tried playing my Rush Hour 2 dvd, in DTS-ES format, my screen kept flashing and flashing on the receiver. I thought something was wrong with my Sony and was really upset! I tried playing the dvd in my XBOX, and it played the ES track PERFECTLY!!! Guess, it was a problem in my JVC DVD PLAYER, after all. It probably has something to do with the FLAG information. This seems to be a continuous problem, even with Dolby EX encoded tracks. Wish these sound techs could get their act together one day. Maybe they should be on the board for the HD-DVD panel.....JK.... Posted Image

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#4 of 147 OFFLINE   BrianDD

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Posted September 06 2002 - 01:13 AM

I got around to tying out the same movies with other DVD players this weekend. The receiver did the same thing with the movies being played on an XBOX, PS2, and older Panasonic player. I think I am going to email Sony about this. Maybe they can find a use for that RS232 port on the back. This is really anoying. I patiently wait for these discrete movies to trickle out and then find that I can't listen to them the way they were meant to be heard.

#5 of 147 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted September 06 2002 - 12:25 PM

I can play Gladiator in DTS-ES discrete fine on my DA5ES. I had a lot of problems with Rush Hour 2. A lot of the time it would do what you describe with the flashing the DTS stuff. Blade 2 seems to lock on fine, but I get no sound. The LFE indicator moves and the reciever shows 3/2+1 no flashing, but no sound. I'm using my PC. I've tried both nVDVD and WinDVD 4+.

Seth

#6 of 147 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted September 06 2002 - 02:53 PM

Upon further investigation...

Are we sure that Blade 2 is DTS-ES discrete?

Gladiator is DTS-ES discrete. The Sony detects Gladiator as "dts [3/3]" and then says "6.1ch DISCRETE".

Rush Hour 2 and Blade 2 go into their respective fits (flashing and locking onto anything) and do not decode if the reciever is set to AFD. However if you set the reciever to "Normal Surround" and either turn off 6.1 decoding, or force it on (take it off auto) the reciever detects it as "dts [3/2+1]".

By contrast, Cast Away, when in played in auto mode shows up as "dts [3/2+1]" and then says "6.1ch DECODING".

There seems to be some issue with the way New Line is flagging DTS-ES titles. The DA5ES sees them as DTS-ES Matrix, but does not automatically detect them as anything. Are there two different DTS flags that are conflicting? Perhaps one tells the reciever to engage in DTS-ES Discrete (which the reciever only see in auto), but the reciever then detects a 3/2+1 (matrix) DTS stream? Is it possible that in 6.1 auto mode the reciever just cycles rapidly between the two DTS-ES modes not sure what to do?

Seth

#7 of 147 OFFLINE   chiante

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Posted September 06 2002 - 03:00 PM

Blade II is DTS-ES discrete.

#8 of 147 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted September 06 2002 - 03:30 PM

Quote:
Blade II is DTS-ES discrete.
Ok, It'd be nice if my DA5ES would realize this fact. Maybe we can get Sony's attention and get a firmware update for our DA5ES's.

Seth

#9 of 147 OFFLINE   SvenS

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Posted September 06 2002 - 09:23 PM

Well I see I am not alone with this problem! I just watched Blade II yesterday and had the same problem and was forced to put the receiver in 6.1 "On" instead of "Auto" which basically give me DTS-EX NOT ES! It still sounded outstanding mind you but NOT what I should be getting!

This is definitely a SONY/New Line problem that needs to be addressed!

#10 of 147 OFFLINE   BrianDD

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Posted September 07 2002 - 01:19 AM

Thanks for your replies guys. Its nice to know that I'm not the only one. I thought maybe I had a bad unit but apparently not.

#11 of 147 OFFLINE   AaronWT

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Posted September 08 2002 - 05:36 AM

My 4ES decodes it without any problems. I was wondering if the 5ES could decode it properly. I'm glad I opted for the 4ES.

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#12 of 147 OFFLINE   Brett Miles

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Posted November 08 2002 - 05:25 AM

I was looking over the 5es vs. 4es thread today, and for some reason remembered that I was meaning to test this problem myself. My room is too small to use a rear center at this time, so I had no idea of these issues before this thread. This is a real concern to me, though, because I do intend to use it at a later date (plus the fact that I don't like the idea that my equipment has a serious operational defect whether I use it or not). All of my testing was done with the surround back set to "on" but no speaker attached, so I don't have any idea what type of sound I would have been getting from that speaker. I tried Gladiator and Blade II and get a lot of the same weirdness described above. Gladiator seems fine.


Blade II set to:
a) DTS from menu = no sound, "dts 3/2+1" displayed
b) switch to Normal surround + 6.1 on = sound present
c) switch back to AFD = sound remains
d) push stop then play again = no sound
e) switch to normal surround + auto = flashing, no sound
f) switch to normal surround + on + surround back set to no = sound and DTS 3/3 displayed like Gladiator

Btw the dvd player used was the Sony DVP-S530D. Hopefully you guys can follow all this. I especially find it interesting (read: sucky) that dts 3/3 is in there somewhere, we just can't play it! This is definitely something that needs addressed by Sony, New Line or both. While the number of dts discrete titles are still few, the numbers are only going to increase. If the 4es does everything fine, then Sony owes us a software upgrade or something. Whom should we contact about this, because I still have 4+ years left on my warranty and I expect this to be fixed. How many of the original posters to the thread have contacted Sony, and what was the response?

#13 of 147 OFFLINE   Juan_R

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Posted November 08 2002 - 05:36 AM

I got the same problem when trying to play Rush Hour 2, I hope they come out with some fix for this.
Juan

#14 of 147 OFFLINE   Greg Schwabacher

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Posted November 08 2002 - 07:09 AM

I'll run up to Blockbuster this evening and rent Blade II to give it a try on my 'DA4 -- I'll let you guys know what I find out.
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#15 of 147 OFFLINE   AaronBatiuk

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Posted November 08 2002 - 07:21 AM

Quote:
I ...was forced to put the receiver in 6.1 "On" instead of "Auto" which basically give me DTS-EX NOT ES!
Huh? Posted Image
There is no dts-EX format. Probably because of what the last three letters spell. Just wouldn't go over too well, ya know. We have dts-ES discrete and dts-ES matrix.

#16 of 147 OFFLINE   Seth_L

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Posted November 08 2002 - 07:34 AM

He meant DTS-ES Matrix.

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#17 of 147 OFFLINE   Greg Schwabacher

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Posted November 08 2002 - 08:52 AM

I just checked...my 'DA4ES auto-decodes the discrete DTS-ES surround back channel on Blade II just fine. In fact, the mix sounds pretty damned awesome.
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#18 of 147 OFFLINE   TonyTone

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Posted November 08 2002 - 11:38 AM

To sorta follow up on SvenS' "DTS-EX" faux pas--on my DA4ES if you set SB DECODING to MATRIX (as opposed to AUTO), DD-EX decoding is applied to any 5.1 material, even if said material is DTS-ES, and of course assuming that you have "told" your receiver to engage surround back (single channel, or two-channel if DA4ES) speaker output.

As others have pointed out, in order for the receiver to apply DTS-ES (either discrete or matrix) decoding, the SB DECODING (don't know if it's called the same on the 5ES) has to be set to AUTO. Now, whether or not the decoder can properly detect the DTS-ES flag in the software (IOW, DVD) is another story...although FWIW my DA4ES also correctly applies DTS-ES discrete decoding when I play Blade II--again, SB DECODING has to be set to AUTO beforehand on the 4ES in order for the receiver to apply DTS-ES decoding on a DTS-ES DVD.

#19 of 147 OFFLINE   GregK

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Posted November 08 2002 - 02:26 PM

I just set up a Yamaha RXV-2300 and noticed an interesting twist with DTS ES-discrete and the auto/manual 6.1 mode:

As most here know, Dolby had a problem with their EX flag, and had to withdraw the (current) flag encoding mode when certain Dolby Digital decoders had dropouts indirectly due to the encoded DD-EX recognition flag. This is why almost all DD-EX tracks are 'flag-free' and thus EX receivers must be set to the Dolby Digital EX mode manually, even for EX encoded DVDs.

So with that in mind, I switched the Yamaha to the manual 6.1 mode, so it applies surround back decoding to DD and DTS material. But when I was still in the manual mode and played "Gladiator" in DTS (dts-6.1 discrete ES encoded), it stayed in the matrix mode. Only when I went back to the "auto' mode did the Yamaha correctly go into the 6.1 discrete mode. So if you use the Yamaha RX-V2300 and stay in the manual EX/ES mode, be aware of this minor glitch...

#20 of 147 OFFLINE   Greg Schwabacher

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Posted November 08 2002 - 02:43 PM

It seems like Sony owes you guys a firmware update.

On a similar but different note, I just picked up the two-disc E.T. set this evening. The new, CGI-enhanced version of the movie is listed on the packaging as "DTS-ES," but my DA4ES doesn't auto-detect the DTS-ES track at all...it just acts like it's a regular DTS 5.1 track. I could manually force 6.1 matrix decoding, but on my DA4, that engages the DD-EX matrix decoder; the DTS-ES matrix decoder only comes on if a DTS-ES flag is detected. Interestingly enough, the audio options on the DVD's audio menu don't mention DD-EX or DTS-ES...usually this stuff is predominantly displayed there! Has anyone else noticed the same thing?

Man, I've only had my receiver a week and even I'm getting frustrated by all the glitches caused by these 6.1 formats!!
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