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To All HTF Members: The "HD-DVD ONE FORMAT ONLY!" campaign begins...with YOUR help!


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171 replies to this topic

#1 of 172 Ronald Epstein

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Posted August 29 2002 - 10:46 AM

Posted ImagePosted Image



Those of you that are readers of The Digital Bits,
surely are aware of the industries move to
introduce High-Definition DVD to the
consumer marketplace.

This introduction of a superior DVD format comes
with the usual wranglings between several major
manufacturers (Sony and Panasonic; Warner Brothers;
Toshiba) who are geared to start yet another format
war which only results in the consumer being hurt.

Home Theater Forum has joined in a campaign
alongside other Home Theater/DVD websites to urge
all these companies to come together, sit down, and
decide on ONE HD-DVD FORMAT. If they don't
do this, we as consumers will be faced with at least
three separate formats with any one's future uncertain.

It is the opinion of this forum that the TOSHIBA
format is the best format on the table. It uses
the blue laser technology, is backward compatable
with today's DVD standards and it promises to be
home recordable. But we urge you all to read the
articles posted on THE DIGITAL BITS about
all 3 proposed formats.

The articles are available here:

http://www.thedigita...com/#mytwocents

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#hdwar

Also....

We would like to create a UNIFIED WEBPAGE
that will act as an official website for our campaign.
This website should not only list the specifications
of all three currently proposed formats, but should
urge these manufacturers to break their barriers
and come together to create ONE HD-DVD FORMAT.

If anyone out there is interested in putting together
a webpage please email: billhunt@thedigitalbits.com

So far, www.dvdsite.org has volunteered to host
the campaign page. As you can see, there are no
egos here from site to site -- just people that
want to get a message out.

Any website that wants to join in this cause should
copy the above banners and post them on your website.

We also welcome discussion in this thread. It is
very important that this discussion helps all of
us to come up with ideas of how to further promote
this campaign.

The Internet has a voice. If we don't encourage
manufacturers to introduce the next generation of
DVD as a single format, all of us are going to suffer.

Please discuss. Please help.

Ronald J Epstein
Home Theater Forum co-owner

 

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#2 of 172 Patrick McCart

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Posted August 29 2002 - 10:53 AM

I added the banner to my website's main page.

#3 of 172 Matthew Furtek

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Posted August 29 2002 - 10:54 AM

One of the key points for me is that the format be backward compatible. People who aren't home theater enthusiasts will not want to buy a new player that won't play their old DVDs, and if HD-DVD is to succeed it must not just be for home theater enthusiasts.

Matthew Furtek

#4 of 172 Robert_eb

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Posted August 29 2002 - 11:06 AM

Great thread. Let just hope it works.

#5 of 172 Chris M

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Posted August 29 2002 - 11:09 AM

I added that to my home page beside my home theater link:
www.edival.net

Chris.

#6 of 172 TyC

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Posted August 29 2002 - 11:28 AM

This is an excellent campaign. I hope that the consumer's wishes will be honored.

I am also in favor of the blue-ray technology.
"I HATE WIDESCREEN! I HATE THE BLACK BARS!!!"
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#7 of 172 Joseph Bolus

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Posted August 29 2002 - 11:34 AM

I also echo that backward compatibility with the current DVD standard *must* be a primary goal for any unified HD-DVD format.

After that, the format should be able to provide a high bandwith (like D-VHS), and be capable of recording at a much higher density than today's standard DVD. The higher the recording density, the less software compression will be required to achieve the desired HDTV picture.

Since the Toshiba/NEC proposal seems, on the surface at least, to meet all these goals, I say let's get behind it.
Joseph
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#8 of 172 Jeff Ulmer

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Posted August 29 2002 - 11:51 AM

So far the Toshiba/NEC proposal make the most sense to me too, but I am also hopeful that FMD will become a reality. Red laser requires far too much compromise for the next generation format, since we'll need new players anyway. I want to see LESS compression, not more.

#9 of 172 george kaplan

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Posted August 29 2002 - 12:47 PM

I hope that the one website for the one format has one on-line petition which would I'm guessing would have thousands upon thousands of signatures and might actually carry some weight moreso than the fragmented petitions that pop up here and there from time to time.
"Movies should be like amusement parks. People should go to them to have fun." - Billy Wilder

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#10 of 172 RexW

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Posted August 29 2002 - 12:56 PM

Great unified start on everyone's part. I'll do my best on this side of the ocean.
On the outside lookin' in....and it's funny!

#11 of 172 ErichH

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Posted August 29 2002 - 12:57 PM

Go Blue - Down With Red(can you say betamax)
I'll help make as much noise as possible for Blue!

Great Idea Ron!

Eric

#12 of 172 Brenton

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Posted August 29 2002 - 01:46 PM

Says on the Digital Bits that Warner Bros is the one pushing for red laser technology. What it doesn't say is that they also want everyone to put the discs in snapcases.

#13 of 172 Adam Lenhardt

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Posted August 29 2002 - 01:46 PM

It seems the Toshiba format is indeed the best compromise between accessibility and quality. Still, we need to make noise not just for ONE format, but the RIGHT format. I'd rather wait for the format wars to run their course then get stuck with a high-compression Red-laser format that doesn't offer the quality jump that HD-DVD needs to offer.

#14 of 172 Terrell

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Posted August 29 2002 - 02:35 PM

Quote:
What it doesn't say is that they also want everyone to put the discs in snapcases.

Figures! Snappers suck Warner, and so does your red-laser garbage.

As for this crusade, I'm behind it 100%. I also favor Toshiba's blue laser proposal. It has everything that you can ask for.

1. Toshiba's proposal offers a significant leap in picture quality over the current format, and I believe it will offer true HD-DVD.

2. Toshiba's format is backwards compatible with current discs. There's no doubt consumers want to be able to watch their current DVDs when a new format arrives. It makes the transition much easier and doesn't render someone's entire collection obsolete.

3. Toshiba's proposal is recordable. This is something I think everyone wants. 99% of the consumer's who will buy this product are not into piracy, and have no interest in breaking copyright laws. So I personally think this is a non-issue. The fact is illegal piracy will always exist. These people will always get around any difficulties that prevent them from doing what they want to do. But you don't fight piracy by being paranoid of the consumers who have done nothing wrong, nor intend to.

So at this point, after reading up on the format, I'll support Toshiba. The proposal from Sony looks intriguing, but it's not backwards compatible. It doesn't look like it will be recordable either, at least in it's inception. Toshiba seems to have their hand on the pulse of the consumer. I'll do all I can to support Toshiba, and more importantly one format. Becuase if there is a format war, I'll just sit on the sideline until we have a winner.

#15 of 172 Eric F

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Posted August 29 2002 - 03:08 PM

As I see it, the HD-DVD "backwards compatibiliy" question is equivalent to the new SACD and DVD-Audio formats.

Should every new HD-DVD be a hybrid, and [maybe] sacrifice a little on the HD quality side in the beginning, or should there be a totally new HD-DVD format with all new HD-DVD players mandated to play back both the old and the new formated discs?

If we take a look at the introduction of SACD and DVD-A formats into the market I think we have our answer. If every SACD or DVD-A from the beginning was a hybrid, there wouldn't be the kind of confusion and lack of interest the public is exhibiting now. If Sony is going to make every CD they produce from now on a hybrid (and charge the same price as a standard CD) SACD will clearly be the winner.

This is how the HD-DVD roll-out needs to be handled. Then, after general market acceptence they can gradually eliminate the standard DVD element from the discs.

#16 of 172 Adam_S

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Posted August 29 2002 - 03:11 PM

I agree that the toshiba format is best. Definitely ONE RIGHT FORMAT. less compression is definitely best.

Is this the right place to say that putting MLP or whatever it is the lossless surround on DVDA is the preference for the sound features we desire. Rather than requiring low bitrate compressed Dolby on every DVD, require a lossless soundtrack on ever HDDVD

Adam
 

#17 of 172 Wayne Bundrick

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Posted August 29 2002 - 04:08 PM

What we're hoping for is for history to repeat itself. Originally there were two competing formats on the drawing board, one group led by Toshiba and Matsushita, the other by Sony and Philips. Various other companies also had an active role or otherwise chose sides, for example Warner was a big part of the Toshiba camp. Somehow a group of computer companies led by IBM decided that a format war is not a good thing, and they told Sony and Toshiba that they wanted a single unified format to become the successor to the CD-ROM. Sony and Toshiba agreed to team up and the rest is history. We now have a single standard for DVD-Video and it is the result of a collaborative effort of about ten different companies. DVD would not be what it is today without that collaboration.

Unfortunately, the spirit of collaboration evaporated soon after the DVD-Video standard was finished, when some of the companies chose to develop their own recordable/rewritable DVD formats. We now have DVD-RAM, DVD-R/DVD-RW, DVD+R/DVD+RW, all of them with numerous compatibility quirks.

It happened before, it can happen again. We need that collaboration again.
Wayne Bundrick

"It tastes like there's a party in my mouth and everybody's throwing up!" -- Philip J. Fry

#18 of 172 Dan Hitchman

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Posted August 29 2002 - 06:43 PM

Whatever happens HD-DVD needs to have at least a lossless compressed track for the primary language of the film or TV show. I'd hate to have more space available only to be stuck with DTS and Dolby Digital format wars again (besides being lossy compressed, non-audiophile formats). Like DVD-Audio, DTS and Dolby Digital should only be used for commentary and/or backwards compatible tracks.

I'm all for LPCM (you'd never get all sides to agree on using DSD) at a 24 bit word length and at least 96 kHz (192 kHz for all channels would be best so we don't have the old DVD-Audio model of the more channels you have the lesser the quality) sampling for up to 8 channel discrete surround.

It's high time movies and music media allow us to get the full sonic capabilities out of (many of) our expensive pre-amps, amplifiers, and speakers.

High Definition DVD should mean just that... for both audio and video, not just video.

The player should have laser pickups for both super high density (blue, ultraviolet, whatever) and normal red laser DVD playback, but the HD-DVD disc's capabilities itself should not be compromised for backwards compatibility.

Dan

#19 of 172 Ed Vandeweerd

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Posted August 29 2002 - 06:45 PM

Ron
Thanks for doing this. I would support Toshiba's Initiative as it incorporates Blue Laser Technology and is backwards compatible. Our mutual passions for DVD and Laser are expensive enough without having to yet again move to a whole new format and replace our respective Libraries.
Ed Vandeweerd
Evan@shawlink.ca
my collection

#20 of 172 Terrell

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Posted August 29 2002 - 07:03 PM

Quote:
Like DVD-Audio, DTS and Dolby Digital should only be used for commentary and/or backwards compatible tracks.

Pardon me for being dumb, but how are you going to have surround sound without Dolby or DTS? The films are done in DD or DTS, so why would the DVD not haveeither of those formats as well?





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