Closed Captioning Vs. Subtitles (1 Viewer)

Kevin M · Aug 20, 2002

I thought I would stop going off topic in the Near Dark review thread and start a new thread dedicated to the subject. Here is my last post in that thread..
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You know I really don't want to belabor this off topic point anymore that it already has been, but my girlfriend (who is deaf) pointed something out to me regarding the CC vs. Subtitles debate that I hadn't considered before.
Most* DVD Subtitles only offer text translations of the dialog where as true Closed Captioning (be it player generated or not) offers not only dialog but text descriptions of important sound effect & music therefore offering a more complete translation of the soundtrack.
*I say most because after she said this to me I decided to check out 20 of my DVD's to see if she was right and 16 out of the 20 discs I checked only had Subtitles (with no description of sounds etc.) Criterion & Fox seem to offer, more often than not, player generated CC as opposed to just Subtitles, WB=player G Sub/cc - Columbia=Player G Sub/cc -Universal=Player generated CC(but personally I hate their style) etc. etc.
The conclusion that I draw is that whether it is more pleasing to the eye or not, I would think the version offering the more accurate description of the film would be the most preferred.
I would say that more studios need to put player generated CC as well as Subtitles on their DVD's.

luke j. chung · Aug 20, 2002

I prefer player-generated subtitles myself, as I have a progressive-scan player hooked up to my 40" Toshiba 16:9 HDTV rear projector, and the close captioning cancels itself out when you play the disc in progressive scan mode!
FYI, I am hearing-impaired.

Ken Chan · Aug 20, 2002

I'm confused by your distinction of "player-generated" CC being a feature of the disc. As I understand it, the video stream either has CC (on line 23 of NTSC) or not. And that's completely separate from whether it has subtitle streams (which are actually subpictures that don't have to be subtitles).

When the video gets to my TV, I can have it display the CC or not. By that point the subtitles, if any, have also been overlayed on the picture. I suppose you can have players that also read the CC from the video stream and overlay them as well, just like subtitles, but that would be a feature of the player.

And yes, traditionally subtitles did not carry the hints for the hearing-impaired like "[Doorbell rings]", but I've certainly seen subtitles on DVDs that do that. They may actually get the time-coded text from the same agencies that do captions.

Support for CC tends to be a high-end authoring feature, not that that matters much for studio-produced DVDs, since they are using those high-end systems.

//Ken

Jeff Kleist · Aug 20, 2002

They use the CC script to generate the subtitle images

Kevin M · Aug 21, 2002

They use the CC script to generate the subtitle images

Not on the vast majority of the Studio DVD's I've watched, some perhaps but not the majority, most of the studio Subtitles I looked at only offered text translations of dialog, not sound.
The point I was suggesting was that if people really do find player generated text to be more pleasing to the eyes then the traditional cc signal (and I agree with that for the most part) then I think more Studios & DVD houses should provide player G. CC along with Subtitles instead of providing subtitles alone.
To give you an example let's say, and I have loaned out the DVD so I don't actually know if this is the case, but lets say Lord Of The Rings only offered subtitles instead of true CC and a deaf person hated the look of standard cc and decided to just watch the Subtitles. In the mines of Moira when the "drums in the deep" began playing without true CC a deaf person wouldn't feel the sense of dread that the director wanted them to feel knowing that hell is coming, they would only see all the characters on the screen making odd faces until someone actually said "Orcs!". A great moment would be lost with just dialog exclusive Subtitles.
I just wish more studios would follow Criterion's lead.....OK...Universal too, but I still hate the font's they use and the awkward placement on the screen.
I'll go back & re-check but most of the studio subtitles I looked at were dialog only.

Click to expand...

Thik Nongyow · Aug 21, 2002

I would like to bring up the issue of close captioning and subtitles on DVD.

Even though dialog is subtitled and close captioned, does not mean you are reading what the characters in the movie are actually saying. I noticed on some DVDs that words, phrases and even sentences are omitted in the subtitles or close captioning. Never assume that what you read on the TV screen is what is heard in the movie.

KyleK · Aug 21, 2002

Sometimes I watch movies with subtitles (like late at night with the volume down) and I noticed that often the subtitles don't translate answers such as "yes" and "no" or when charachters say each other's names. How are hearing impaired people supposed to know know what they are saying(besides lip-reading)?

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Closed Captioning Vs. Subtitles (1 Viewer)

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Kevin M

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