Compare a DIY and a big name speaker... (1 Viewer)

Adam Bluhm · Jul 24, 2002

Okay. I've seen some spectacular work by some of you fellas. Wonderful looking speakers. I aspire to delve into this someday, and that day will come... far down the road.

I just have a question. I see that with DIY's the speaker boxes are almost always square. I'm sure that's because it's the easiest, most efficient design (obviously).
My question is, what high price, big name speaker would you compare your DIY speaker to? I mean, is it a JBL Studio line, expensive B&W speakers, or would it be in a category of it's own?
I am just very curious.

Cam S · Jul 24, 2002

I'd like to see a Shiva based ported sub compared to a Paradigm PW2200 or something like that, just to see how mines would stack up.

AlexKunec · Jul 24, 2002

My tempest would destroy a paradigm servo15 in terms of output and lower frequency extension. However, the servo15 still is a bit tighter (Mines ported). The servo15 is 4 times the price!

Tom Brennan · Jul 24, 2002

The only speakers currently made for home use, at ANY price, that can stand comparison to my DIY Altec VOT and JBL Pro hybrids are the EdgarHorn Titans. However I've heard other DIY horn rigs and some prosound rigs (JBL and ServoDrive) used in the home that sound as good. www.chicagohornspeakerclub.org

Chris Tsutsui · Jul 24, 2002

Not all are just boxes, mine is still pretty close though. I asked some people and they said that they can use steam to flex wood or mold it. The process is expensive and it would be an even bigger pain to calculate volume (even for me)

My contractor and I have begun planning a spherical subwoofer enclosure made of MDF rings.
Of course I'll have to find out if it's been done before because if it hasn't, then we will begin work once I have a design. Don't worry, I'll post plenty of pictures and descriptions like I did with my last DIY sub. It'll be a while though because there's a lot of R&D involved. If it begins to look like a joke we might scrap the project.

Brian Bunge · Jul 24, 2002

Dan Wiggins has stated that his Dharman subwoofer (12" Shiva, AVA250 amp, dual 3" ports) will best the Velodyne HGS15.

Brian

Dennis XYZ · Jul 24, 2002

My contractor and I have begun planning a spherical subwoofer enclosure made of MDF rings.

Cool, Chris. I forget where I saw it but somebody used that technique to build a nOhr clone. I think he just used a jig saw (or was it a router?) to cut the rings. After it was glued up, he found somebody with a big wood lathe and turned the outside down to a nice smooth shape. I don't remember if he smoothed the inside or not. That nOhr shape might make an awesome sub if you want a port. Otherwise, a sealed sphere would be cool too.
nOhrZilla!

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Geoff L · Jul 24, 2002

I belive a consumer product sphear sub has been done.

Some place I do remember seeing it. I think it was B&O maybe but don't quote me on it. The paper spec's were nothing to brag about or my memorie would be much clearer.

Someone else may recall the make & model for sure.

Eidt:
It set on the floor with a mount looking allot like those large world globes. The top 1/3 of the sphear was the grill and the driver set in the top of the bottom 2/3 of the sphear. It used a normal round driver. It was kinda George Jetson looking and was a number of years before the newer square Kicker solos, Xtant hex, and Bazookas new shape drivers.

Mark gas · Jul 24, 2002

spherical subwoofer enclosures have been done before. Kicker had some for there show car. They just fiber some 20 inch beachballs for their enclosures.

Brian Bunge · Jul 24, 2002

Mark,

Was that with those stupid square drivers of theirs?

Brian

Geoff L · Jul 24, 2002

Brian

Have you listened to those stupid square drivers in a good car SQ system?

Not a Kicker fan by any means but they are far from garbage. Over priced yes, the best no, decent drivers for car systems, certainly.

Chris Tsutsui · Jul 24, 2002

If it's been done then I guess I'll have to think of something else.

Dustin B · Jul 24, 2002

Adam, for some non sub examples.

Matrice here on this forum has traded in his PSB Stratus Goldi's for GR Research AV1+ monitors. The AV1+ obviously can't compete bass wise (he doesn't mind because he has a Tempest for that), but Matrice sure likes his AV1+ better for mids and highs.

Don't remember this other guys name over on HTT, but he choose vented Kit281 towers over B&W Nautilus 804 towers.

Mark gas · Jul 24, 2002

It's was for those square subs. 2 of there 8 inch square subs hit over 150 db's Legal on the dash (lets see a shiva do that!!!) and those square subs have one many sq comps and world Championships (lets also see a shiva do that!!!).
I don’t know why but car audio subs have got a bad rap on this forum and in home audio in general especially the two subs I own a 15 inch kicker l7 and a 15 inch Cerwin Vega Stroker witch by the way was used in a car that set the highest SQ score in Australian history.

Brian Bunge · Jul 25, 2002

Mark,

I have nothing against "car audio" subs per se. After all, that's where I got started building subs. I just don't go for the gimmicky crap they push, such as the L7's. Whether or not it's a quality driver is a moot point, at least to me. But I'd really think there would be some problems with linearity at some point considering the edge of the cone at the corners is further from the center of the driver than at other points along the edge, unlike a round driver. But I could be wrong.

And SPL has as much to do with the alignment matching the transfer function of the vehicle as what driver is used. I'd imagine two 8" woofers tuned around 50Hz or so in the cab of a Chevy S10 would hit mighty hard. It's all about choosing the right alignment for the job.

The biggest beef I have with car audio drivers is that there are some $1000 car audio drivers that can't hang with some $250 home audio drivers.

Geoff,

I don't pay "over priced" for "decent" drivers.

Brian

Geoff L · Jul 25, 2002

Brian

Boy thats good to here! Why go decent and pricey when you can have a great dirver for much less.
Im speaking to the area of DIY and the proven price to "performers" drivers that are so popular. Adire, PE, Stryke, ect all have their winners.

Im not bashing Kicker or any of the big name car companys.....

Ches Campbell · Jul 25, 2002

I have been in to car audio for about 5 years, and home audio for only about a year. I used to be a car audio freak. I have had three car audio systems, and heard many of the best car audio subs (Image Dynamics, which i own, Eclipse, Crystal, Audiobahn, Kicker.... This being said, I have been very impressed with Shivas and Daytons. They cost WAAAAYYYYYY less than equal car subs, have lower Fs than almost every car sub, go just as loud, and best of all sound just as good if not better. Next time I upgrade my car system I am going with a Dayton MKII 10" no doubt.
Just FYI here is my car system:
Alpine 7876
Xtant 3300x
a/d/s/ 335is
Image Dynamics IDQ 10DVC

This post in regards to this quote by Mark Gas:
"It's was for those square subs. 2 of there 8 inch square subs hit over 150 db's Legal on the dash (lets see a shiva do that!!!) and those square subs have one many sq comps and world Championships (lets also see a shiva do that!!!). "

Shivas could easily "DO THAT" if people would actually use them. MOst people in car audio just go to the store and let the dealer tell them what to get. IN other words, most car audio guys aren't gonna go on to the INternet to order their subs when they can get something else at the store.

But, car audio will always be number one in my book, because I listen to more music in my car than at home.

Later

jeff lam · Jul 25, 2002

what's the Xmax of those L7's? It's simple physics, the more air you move the more bass you get. I'm sure the shiva or tempest can do pretty much anything a Kicker, JL, or Audiobahn driver can in the proper enclosure. I'm sure they go lower too. I have a top of the line Audiobahn 12" in my car and it thumps hard, I also have a tempest in my home and there is no doubt that the tempest would best it in every category given the same power and room specs, car or home. BTW, I've been into car audio for much longer than home audio. I have a lot of respect for those guys, but to me, car audio isn't worth it anymore.

Mark gas · Jul 26, 2002

There is no way 2 shivas could hit 150 DB’s or handle 4000 watts like the kicker 8’s did . The highest score I think a Adire product has ever hit was 155 DB and that has with a Brahma in a extreme vehicle with plexi glass windows, cements floors and a reinforced cabin. Also most people into SPL are hardcore do it yourselfers and will only use products that they believe in. 2 of the biggest names in SPl are digital designs and shocker audio and they are both mail order companies. Nate Munson hit 169.8 with one digital designs 10 inch sub I would loke to see a 10 inch Brahma come near that. I also don’t know of any $1000 car subs and there are more than a few car audio subs that are better than the shiva in sq, spl or both. Anyways we will see this session how well the Brahma does this season in DB Drags, If it wins some titles Dan will not be able to keep them in stock if it doesn’t oh well better luck next time.

By the way Audiobahn is a pretty low end company you should a IDMAX or at least a IDQ maybe a Illusion audio sub for all out SQ.

Seth_L · Jul 27, 2002

There is no way 2 shivas could hit 150 DB’s or handle 4000 watts like the kicker 8’s did . The highest score I think a Adire product has ever hit was 155 DB and that has with a Brahma in a extreme vehicle with plexi glass windows, cements floors and a reinforced cabin. Also most people into SPL are hardcore do it yourselfers and will only use products that they believe in. 2 of the biggest names in SPl are digital designs and shocker audio and they are both mail order companies. Nate Munson hit 169.8 with one digital designs 10 inch sub I would loke to see a 10 inch Brahma come near that. I also don’t know of any $1000 car subs and there are more than a few car audio subs that are better than the shiva in sq, spl or both. Anyways we will see this session how well the Brahma does this season in DB Drags, If it wins some titles Dan will not be able to keep them in stock if it doesn’t oh well better luck next time.

By the way Audiobahn is a pretty low end company you should a IDMAX or at least a IDQ maybe a Illusion audio sub for all out SQ.

Ahhh the sound of ignorance. Car audio is about 90% install and about 10% what you're actually using. I have no doubt that with a really good design someone could get a single Brahma 10 to best that record you speak of. It's just a matter of exciting a natural resonance in the car and making sure you don't fry your driver. Ultimately it's all about how much pressure you can create. A Brahma has a much better starting point to work from than most other cones.

Seth

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