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IGN spanks Bruce Lee


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33 replies to this topic

#1 of 34 James Zos

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Posted July 03 2002 - 02:15 PM

Too bad, I was kinda looking forward to this one.

http://xbox.ign.com/...3/363937p1.html

#2 of 34 BrianB

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Posted July 03 2002 - 02:49 PM

Really? I thought it'd looked spectacularly average since the second batch of screenshots.
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#3 of 34 James Zos

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Posted July 03 2002 - 03:20 PM

I wasn't particularly looking forward to it based on the screenshots (though maybe I should have paid more attention to them.) I just thought there was a lot of promise in the idea of a next generation Bruce Lee game. Guess the key word there is "idea" as the reality looks like just another attempt to cash in on a great license with a shoddy product ... At least I didn't pre-order it.
I still have hope for the next-generation remake of The Last Ninja ... whenever THAT comes out. Anyone else remember that game?

#4 of 34 Andre F

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Posted July 04 2002 - 04:16 AM

Quote:
Really? I thought it'd looked spectacularly average since the second batch of screenshots.


Agreed...
-Andre F
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#5 of 34 NickSo

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Posted July 04 2002 - 06:16 AM

OUCH, thats gotta hurt, 3.9!

My cousin was really looking foreward to this game Posted Image


#6 of 34 Morgan Jolley

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Posted July 04 2002 - 07:24 AM

I don't think they should have made a game with Bruce Lee to begin with. Guess this just reassures my thoughts.

#7 of 34 Dave F

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Posted July 04 2002 - 07:55 AM

The animations for the Bruce character looked pretty cool on the latest OXM disc. It briefly had my hopes up. Too bad. Posted Image

-Dave
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#8 of 34 James Zos

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Posted July 04 2002 - 02:01 PM

Morgan, why don't you think they should make a game with Bruce Lee?

#9 of 34 Morgan Jolley

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Posted July 04 2002 - 05:21 PM

Because he's dead. Its just wrong.

Plus I'm not sure that there's much of an appeal to being able to play a game as Bruce Lee when we have games that already do the same thing. It looked to me like a flashy game with his name on it and nothing more from the beginning.

#10 of 34 James Zos

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Posted July 04 2002 - 06:35 PM

"Because he's dead. Its just wrong."


Do you really think ONLY people who are currently alive should be portrayed in video games? Even though they too, will of course, eventually die? What if they made a game with a character based on Bruce Lee, while he was still alive. Would it be okay to play THAT game now, after his death? Or would that be "just wrong" too?
It's an interesting belief you have, and I'm not sure I understand it. For instance, I don't think there has ever been a game actually based on Bruce Lee - only games based on his screen persona, just like a game with a character based on Bruce Willis or Jackie Chan or whomever are actually based on their screen personas, not the real people. And while the real people die, their cinematic images are, in a sense, immortal. So I don't see how you can view using those immortal images in another form of entertainment as a matter of "right" or "wrong." It's not like you are digging up their actual graves or something.

#11 of 34 Morgan Jolley

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Posted July 04 2002 - 06:54 PM

Making a game with a person in a game after they're dead and playing one after they die are two totally different things.

They make E! True Hollywood Stories and TV Movies about dead celebrities because they led amazing lives. Now imagine them making up a sitcom that has one of those dead celebrities in it. It would be just wrong.

The main reason I see it as wrong is because he didn't say they could do it. Had he left a will saying they could or signed a deal before his death, then that's a different situation.

In Onimusha, they used the physical likeness of a dead celebrity for the main character. This is totally different, too. There is a difference between using someone for inspiration and using them as the main character.

#12 of 34 James Zos

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Posted July 04 2002 - 07:22 PM

I understand your thinking a little better now, although I don't think I completely agree. As for Bruce Lee not giving permission for his likeness to be used, for better or worse there is always someone in charge of a famous person's estate after they die. In this case that would probably be Linda Lee, his wife. Anyway, the person in charge of the estate, or the person paid to take care of the estate, is in charge of making those decisions, whether or not to license the person's image, under what conditions, with what restrictions, etc. (I know there were some restrictions put on the use of Bruce Lee's image for this game, for instance.) Since the somewhat cartoonish screen version of Bruce Lee was nothing like the actual actor and martial artist (he didn't go around taking on dozens of enemies at one time, for instance), to me it is not an insult to the memory of the real person to use their screen image in a video game, particularly since their screen image had very strong video game characteristics to begin with. It would be different if you were claiming to portray the actual PERSON, the way, say, Oliver Stone did with Jim Morrison when he made that Doors movie. In that instance some of the surviving members of the band got very pissed off because they felt like Morison’s image had been prostituted and the movie had little to do with his actual life and more to do with Stone's "vision." In that case I can see why they would feel that way.
I can also see how someone who was a close relative of Lee's might get upset to see him suddenly pop up in a video game after his death. But like I said, those relatives are usually part of the estate, and have usually signed off on the representation. So in that case, I don't see where any wrong has been committed.

#13 of 34 Morgan Jolley

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Posted July 04 2002 - 07:31 PM

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As for Bruce Lee not giving permission for his likeness to be used, for better or worse there is always someone in charge of a famous person's estate after they die

But Bruce Lee didn't give them permission. Legally its all good, but I still don't think it's right.

Quote:
Since the somewhat cartoonish screen version of Bruce Lee was nothing like the actual actor and martial artist (he didn't go around taking on dozens of enemies at one time, for instance), to me it is not an insult to the memory of the real person to use their screen image in a video game, particularly since their screen image had very strong video game characteristics to begin with

He looks enough like Bruce Lee for you to figure out he's Bruce Lee. He's called Bruce Lee. For argument's sake, he IS Bruce Lee, he's just in a videogame. Whether he's an accuracte version of him or not, he's still Bruce Lee in every sense of the statement.

Quote:
. It would be different if you were claiming to portray the actual PERSON, the way, say, Oliver Stone did with Jim Morrison when he made that Doors movie

If the portrayal was accurate, then I see nothing wrong. In this case, it was more about artistic vision than accuracy (VERY much like A Beautiful Mind) and I think that is wrong. Had they made a movie that was pretty much the same thing, only the characters were not the Doors and such, even though you knew they were the inspiration, it wouldn't be the same thing.

Had they just used Bruce's physical likeness instead of his history and image, it would be different.

#14 of 34 Dave Falasco

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Posted July 05 2002 - 01:46 AM

Hmm, I have problems with using footage of Fred Astaire to sell vacuum cleaners and John Wayne to sell beer, but I don't have a problem with this game. Except I'm very disappointed that it seems to, well, suck. If IGN gives a game a 3.9, you know it's a crummy game! They tend to scale on the high side if anything. Like the other Dave F., I was impressed with the demo footage on the latest OXM disc, and I was looking forward to at least renting this sucker. Oh well, guess I'll hold out for Buffy...

#15 of 34 Andy Sheets

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Posted July 05 2002 - 01:59 AM

Quote:
Had they just used Bruce's physical likeness instead of his history and image, it would be different.

In some ways, I think that's worse. From what I know of Bruce Lee, he had particular ideas about entertainment and his philosphy. If you were to take his image and just slap it into any old generic beat-em-up video game (like the C-64 game Posted Image), he might not have been cool with that because it doesn't bring any of his ideas across to whoever is playing. But if you could make a game that helped introduce people to jeet kune do and Lee's other ideas, he might not have had a problem with that.

#16 of 34 Iain Lambert

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Posted July 05 2002 - 02:09 AM

Why bother sticking him in a generic beat-em-up, when he already fights against Jackie Chan in Tekken 3. What, you mean thats not meant to be Bruce Lee or Jackie Chan? Posted Image
mmm, thats odd.

#17 of 34 Morgan Jolley

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Posted July 05 2002 - 11:42 AM

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If you were to take his image and just slap it into any old generic beat-em-up video game (like the C-64 game ), he might not have been cool with that because it doesn't bring any of his ideas across to whoever is playing

But they are using him as him. If they were to use a character that looked like him but didn't have his name, that would be different. He would be the inspiration, not the actual character.

#18 of 34 James Zos

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Posted July 05 2002 - 01:53 PM

I disagree. They are not "using him as him." The real life Bruce Lee had very little to do with the on-screen version of Bruce Lee, just like the real life version of Clint Eastwood has very little to do with the on-screen version of Clint Eastwood. Bruce Lee played a CHARACHTER in his movies, and it is the charachter he played that is being used. Sure, they are using his real NAME for the game, but so what? That's only because none of the charachters he played had a name most gamers - or anyone else, for that matter - would remember. That doesn't equate to "using him as him."
If they were going to do that, they'd have to show him teaching kung fu classes, acting in Hong Kong movies, dealing with racial prejudice, etc etc. The game is more like a version of Enter the Dragon (at least it SHOULD have been, if it were any good) than his "real life" story.
I'm sure most people can tell the difference between a video-game depiction and the real person ... Dead or alive.

#19 of 34 Morgan Jolley

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Posted July 05 2002 - 02:57 PM

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Bruce Lee played a CHARACHTER in his movies, and it is the charachter he played that is being used. Sure, they are using his real NAME for the game, but so what? That's only because none of the charachters he played had a name most gamers - or anyone else, for that matter - would remember. That doesn't equate to "using him as him."

In the game, he is called Bruce Lee, he looks like Bruce Lee, and the main idea is that he IS Bruce Lee. Whether he's Bruce Lee when he's not making movies or Bruce Lee based on his films doesn't matter, his image is being used to promote a product after his death and without his permission.

Quote:
I'm sure most people can tell the difference between a video-game depiction and the real person ... Dead or alive

Then why are they using his image to promote the game? If he was just a nobody or had never existed, then the game would have nothing going for it. Its the fact that he is a big-name dead celebrity that the game is going to sell at all.

#20 of 34 Joe michaels

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Posted July 06 2002 - 02:26 AM

I have to disagree with Morgan's view. Bruce Lee was a character. He never made a specific on screen name famous like say, Arnold did with Terminator, it was Bruce's fighting ability that made him the on screen legend. So to capture that legend and make it into a game I don't see a problem with that. This is much different than taking John Wayne or Fred Astaire and having their actual image hawk a product that they probably never even used.

If Arnold Schwarzenegger died and they released a game about him and it had levels from all of his movies why would anyone have a problem with that? The charater has become legend. Should they stop making Star Trek Games featuring Dr. Mcoy because he is dead? Bruce Lee is being portrayed in the game based on his on screen character.

Video games are known for taking legendary characters from history and using them in games and this one is no different.


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