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A question for 811S owners!!


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#1 of 36 OFFLINE   Kevin Parker

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Posted June 16 2002 - 09:03 AM

Hi guys,
I am interested in buying this receiver, so I wuz wondering what speakers other 811s owners using? I have infinity Interlude speakers, anyone using those with 811s? if yes, how the system sounds?

I will appreciate if you share our experience with me.

Thanx in advance.
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#2 of 36 OFFLINE   Robert_Gaither

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Posted June 16 2002 - 09:12 AM

Trust me get a better AVR, those speakers deserve it (I'd advise buying the outlaw 1050 instead or from the makes of Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, HK, Marantz, Sony DB/ES series, and if you want Pioneer go Elite models instead).

#3 of 36 OFFLINE   Kevin Parker

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Posted June 16 2002 - 09:20 AM

I didnt like pioneer either, but this particular model received a lotta respect in this and lotta other forums thats why I wuz thinking to give it a try, Originally I wuz buying Yamaha RX-V630.
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#4 of 36 OFFLINE   Alf S

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Posted June 16 2002 - 01:19 PM

I think Robert is being WAY to harsh on a receiver he has probably never tested out in his HT.

I replaced my Outlaw 1050 with the Pioneer 811 and am VERY happy with the Pioneer. It has a lot more features than the Outlaw for $100 less.

I'm using Celestion F30's for my fronts and some Optimus for my rears. I used the same speakers with the Outlaw.

I think the Pioneer sounds a bit more robust than the Outlaw, but without having the Outlaw side by side I can't 100% prove one is truly "better" than the other (sound wise). It's just a gut feeling.

Don't discount the Pioneer can TOTALLY hold it's own, especially against the Outlaw in my case.

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#5 of 36 OFFLINE   LinChen

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Posted June 16 2002 - 04:03 PM

Robert, have you tried 811s? If not, what is your base for "trusting you get ...?" Trust you for making a judgement on something you've never ever tried?

Kevin, I am a 811s owner. I had it hooked up with JBL N38II and NSP-1 and I am very happy with the sound (60% HT, 40% music).

Shouldn't have any problem with the infinity speakers.

#6 of 36 OFFLINE   StevenK

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Posted June 16 2002 - 04:38 PM

Hi Kevin,

I drove my NHT 2.5i with the 811S for a while while I was demo-ing several receivers. I was quite surprised by the performance and power of this receiver. I prefer the sound of my old Onkyo TX-DS676, but I prefer the 811S to the H/K 520, a very well respected receiver for music. The 811S had no problems driving my NHTs, which aren't the most efficient speakers in the world. Please make the "better AVR" judgement by yourself by listening to some of the other brands mentioned here and not be swayed by unwarranted bias.

#7 of 36 OFFLINE   Kevin Parker

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Posted June 16 2002 - 05:23 PM

I heard all other brands Robert suggested and to be honest I liked onkyo and yamaha, but I am thinking about pioneer cause lotta ppl are recommending it and the it has unbelievable features for the price, Right now I am waiting to demo it cause its not available in canada yet, pioneer's distributor told me that it would be available in first week of july, so waiting desperately for july.
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#8 of 36 OFFLINE   Robert_Gaither

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Posted June 16 2002 - 06:32 PM

I heard the 810 in a store envionment (Best Buy) but not in my own home and noticed the hissing in channels immediate without any source playback (this was common with my 3 previous Pioneers 455, 457, and 606S but not in my former Denon 2400, and friends Denon AVR95, Yamaha 1105, Outlaw 1050, HK 65/500/510/7000, and Sony 333ES) at what I guesstimate to be less than theater reference level (didn't have my spl meter or Video Essentials on me, but listening to the radio and then switching to empty input, and really wanted this for a pre-amp). This would of been dismissed as maybe being hooked up in a bad enviroment and speaker switches but I also inquired a store worker who allowed me to switch with a Yamaha 5250 at the time (it was silent). Most likely the difference in the 810 and 811 is the inclusion of DTS-ES, DPLII, DTS-NEO, and an additional coax input (yes I studied this model online). The similarities in the models indicates to me that they added a few things (additional binding post for the 7th channel and coax digital), DSP modes (DTS-ES, DPLII, and DTS-NEO), and maybe other things not visible to me but most likely the actual hardware such as the DACs, processing engine (crystal but neither states what model), power supply, and amplifier modules most likely are still the same (if I remember correctly a hybrid mosfet).

I will admit I didn't hear the 811 but did hear the 810, for the record but I bet they both sound similar enough that the difference might not be noticible (but I can be wrong which is something I'll admit). I will agree with the other posters that my judgement might be unfair on this assessment but I do know this much, good gear doesn't hiss and if this problem is taken care of then this might qualify (trust me, I would love to see the price of gear come down and quality go up). But there were things that did bug me about the 810 such as weight (I thought it was light for a 6-channel AVR) and stamped aluminum heatsinks (instead of cast which usually is reserved for high output amps, but with being a hybrid mosfet maybe not necessary) but these are mout points if the item sounds good.

If I have the time I'll try to demo the 811 (hopefully against a similar price Yamaha (BestBuy), Onkyo, and HK (last two at Circuit City) to keep it balanced since the dealers of the others I suggested don't carry this line-up (so the denon, marantz, and Sony ES will be off the hook). I will state an opinion after testing and apologize to those on this board that I have recently offended. I also ask anyone reading my previous post to take it with a grain of salt (or disregard it) and will admit my bias (most of the entry level AVRs sucks imho, but that is my humble opinion) and definitely listen to this yourself if possible.

#9 of 36 OFFLINE   Alf S

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Posted June 17 2002 - 01:40 AM

Just for the record, my 811 has no noticeable hiss mentioned above.

Trying to "evaluate" ANYTHING in a store like BestBuy is completely pointless (and Robert admists that for the most part). I mean really, they hook up the CHEAPEST bookshelf speakers, using speaker wire thinner than a human hair, and all of the recievers are plugged into one big bank of power strips, no WAY you can honestly asess the quality of any receiver, speaker etc.

Trying it at home is about the only honest way to decide if you like something.

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#10 of 36 OFFLINE   LinChen

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Posted June 17 2002 - 09:07 AM

Robert, point well taken.

My receiver doesn't have the hissing sound. However, it seems to be a bit t00 bright when listening to music. Overall, it is a great receiver for the money in my opinion.

Robert, you mentioned weight in your previous post. FYI, 811s is actually one pound heavier than Onkyo sr600 ( 811s 24.5 lbs, sr600 23.5 lbs).

#11 of 36 OFFLINE   MikeyWeitz

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Posted June 17 2002 - 09:36 AM

I picked up the 811s about a week and a half ago. Can not be beat for features and price. I am driving Harmon Kardon HKts2 (5 matched surrounds, 75 w 8' powered sub) that I paid $150 for brand new. Sounds ggreat for what I paid for everything, the Pioneer has plenty of power, rediculous amt of features and NO hiss whatsoever. VERY hapy with my purchase!

#12 of 36 OFFLINE   ThomasL

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Posted June 17 2002 - 11:26 AM

Lin, yes, the main weakness in the Pioneer is probably two channel music listening. I also found it bright, well, more like too mechnical sounding. With my CSW Newton M50 bookshelves, the music was very detailed but it got to be a little grating after awhile. I am not a critical listener and am just listening to acts such as U2, Enya, Innocence Mission, etc. We also listen at relative low volume levels. -55 to -60 on the Pioneer dial. Then I discovered the Midnight setting which the manual says is to help with surround sound listening at low volume levels. It really made a difference for us. I'd recommend giving this a try. It boosts the volume but that isn't why it sounds better. I got out my RS SPL meter and figured out that the difference in db level between regular stereo and midnight was about 6dbs. So, I simply did a test with the same music selection and switched back and forth as best I could re-adjusting the volume to compensate. With Midnight on, the music has a much more warmer sound, more bass but not low thumpy bass and vocals sound more pronounced. It just sounds smoother, more mellow but with the same amount of detail. I've decided to keep it in this mode for 2 channel music listening. Your results may vary of course depending on the type of speakers you have and the volume level you listen at.

As for the hissing sound, I do hear a slight hiss if I put my ears all the way next to the speaker and turn the volume up high. It's pretty faint and it doesn't not bother me whatsoever. The receiver still sounds pretty good with movies and now with music.

cheers,


--tom

#13 of 36 OFFLINE   LinChen

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Posted June 17 2002 - 12:17 PM

Tom, Thank you for the information. You are right. It is a bit "mechnical sounding"(can't find a better phrase to describe)! I have not compared the midnight mode to the regular mode. I'll give it a try. But I do use the loudness mode while listening to two channel music, for I found this mode to be better and richer and doesn't have that "mechnical sounding" feeling anymore.

#14 of 36 OFFLINE   Kevin Parker

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Posted June 17 2002 - 12:43 PM

would this receiver sound ok with infinity interlude? cause they are bright sounding speakers. how pioneer sounds warm or bright?
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#15 of 36 OFFLINE   Robert_Gaither

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Posted June 17 2002 - 08:00 PM

Alf, there are certain things you can evaluate in a store setting, one simply being if the speakers hiss on no input selection (by this I mean a vacant input like VCR2 if nothing is hooked up to it). When I tested the 810 and heard the hiss I not only got the opportunity to replace and test the setup against another AVR there (ie the Yam, it was silent) but I also bypassed the switch as well and tested (and still it was present).

The first two things I always test for AVRs in stores is hiss and test tone for the speaker hooked up (like a sub for example) as this is usually a quick check to see if amps are clean and the speakers are in phase (in some stores, the demo speakers are out of phase in relation to one another). The next thing I check is to see if the correct speaker sizes are setup for speakers I'm using the demo (like small for bookshelves, sub on, etc). I then listen for just the general tone of the AVR to some of the speakers and see if one AVR is bright, warm, or muddled in relation to one another. If the AVR passes this test I always go home and do a little research online to see if I missed a setting or two, competitions offerings, and the general hub bub about whether it's dependable or good/bad on forum sites.

If the AVR passes the above tests and meets a general approval, I will bring the Video Essentials, Spl meter, a few test discs, notes (like chapters/time and little score/eval that I like to do), and calibrate the AVR for a more formal demo. If it still sounds good then either I but currently usually a friend of mine buys (what I mean by this is that sometimes I'm doing this to help someone else and show them a few things to test) the item for a home demo (sometimes we get few AVRs to compare, usually the ones we already own and familiar with).

The home demo's main advantages are does it fit in your rack (a friend of mine was surprised about his HK7000), synergistic with the speakers mated to, fill the room with appropriate db levels, processing smoothness (much easier in a home for things such as panning effects and check to see if it has the ability to present that spaciousness effect that makes movies and music more real), iteracts with other components (nothing like having two devices with similar remote codes), video switching problem (a friend of mine with the Outlaw did have this but they sent him a new one), and things that sometimes you miss in stores that can only be found at home. Usually if it's good it stays (unless tested in my home then it goes to the person who bought it or returned in favor of something else) and if it's bad, well the same as I just stated in the earlier () if my friend who purchased it still wants it.

I've played with, setup, and tested quite a bit of gear for various friends, family, and co-workers in the past because like most of us here we all want to know how it does in a home enviroment (heck, I usually setup gear for people for free just because I like to play with this stuff). The common things I've seen with most gear under $500 is simply that the speakers hiss during silent passages (sorry, most of the cheap Pioneers and even worse Sonys exhibit this, among others) or the worst cross-talk (all bottom rung ones suffer this quite a bit). Like most on this site I seek the Holy Grail, but instead I sometimes I get pelted with rotting vegatation by bad gear with a fake French accent (well, not really but sometimes it feels like it, especially when the product fails some of the in store demo, home demo, and the person you set it up for still wants to keep it).

#16 of 36 OFFLINE   ThomasL

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Posted June 18 2002 - 04:58 AM

The Pioneers do hiss including the 811S. But as stated, budget gear under $500 is going to exhibit problems like this. At my volume level, the hiss is barely audible even with my ear up to the speaker (-35 - -40 on the volume dial and switched to a input that is not being used - vcr). If I crank up the volume to -20 - -15, the hiss becomes much more audible about 1 foot in front of the speakers. Now, knowing that my budget was $400-500, does it bother me? No, but it might if I listened to ear splitting levels and had a huge space to fill - neither true for me. The main point here is that someone should not buy a $400-500 receiver and expect it to behave like a $1500 receiver. I've read threads here that have reported hissing on low end Marantzs when the volume is turned up so it is not just Pioneer. If hissing at high volumes or other problems occur and you find those unacceptable, then you simply should spend more money and get a better product. It's what makes capitalism great Posted Image If we all could afford $2K receivers (without becoming one of the guys from the movie Free Enterprise i.e. getting our gas/electricity shut off Posted Image ), then we'd probably all buy them.

cheers,


--tom

#17 of 36 OFFLINE   Kevin Parker

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Posted June 18 2002 - 06:03 AM

Thomas so you think 811 sounds like 810? if i demo 810 I would have an idea how 811 would sound? I am asking this cause 811 is not available in canada yet. and I am driving my infinity speaker with aiwa pro logic shelf system, dont ask me how it sounds Posted Image
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#18 of 36 OFFLINE   David Ison

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Posted June 18 2002 - 06:22 AM

the hissing everone is talking about could be caused bt hundred different things such as , but not limited to :connections , source , installation, cables you name it . the only way to tell is to isolate the receiver from every thing else , most lilely this would have to take place in a lab under strict control, i doubt any of us has the means or way to do so. robert just let it go.

#19 of 36 OFFLINE   Robert_Gaither

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Posted June 18 2002 - 07:09 AM

David, one more statement then I'll let it go (sorry, but just want to offer another option). Why not go used and buy something such as a Denon 2801 for example that doesn't hiss, sound good, and has most of the features that most people want. I'll admit it lacks DD-EX, DTS-ES, DPL-II, and DTS-NEO but the overall sound quality is quite good.

#20 of 36 OFFLINE   David Ison

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Posted June 18 2002 - 07:35 AM

i my self have in the past bought used equip. come across some great deals, but for someone just getting started i would goe with new ,just so you know what you are getting and the ability to return. yeah i think dennon makes great stuff. I did buy the Pioneer (my first new piece in 5 yrs.)because it had every thing i was looking for at a great price.this is the first piece of pioneer i have ever owned, so far so good(about 3 months).my previous stuff was H/K and maggies, still have the maggies and i use the H/K amp in my system, using the Pioneer as a pre-amp. my advise to anyone, be patient, shop around , never love something that can't love you back.