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ALL STUDIOS, we will not tolerate P & S only!

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#1 of 156 OFFLINE   Tim Hoover

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Posted October 10 2001 - 07:50 AM

As a loyal DVD buyer for the past four years, I feel insulted by the lack of regard from the major movie studios. I buy DVDs (as I have laserdiscs in the past) because they allow me to view movies in their OAR as the filmmakers intended, at the highest possible quality. In the old days, it was very difficult to find widescreen videotapes, and it was mainly with the advent of laserdisc and DVD that OAR came to be appreciated in the home. As a loyal customer, I demand that my voice be heard expressing a TOTAL preference for OAR DVD presentations. DVD has succeeded in the mainstream. It is mainly due to the many HT enthusiasts that are now being ignored by the studios. WE made this format succeed. It is because of US that over 21 million DVD players have been sold since the format's inception, and we want our tastes to be catered to. I understand the pressure that is put upon the studios by retailers for pan & scan products. I just don't see the logic in moving to that area for two reasons: 1- with the advent of HDTV, more widescreen television sets will be made and sold. Then, J6P will complain about the "black bars" on the sides of his pan & scan DVD movies. This will necessitate a huge rerelease of titles in widescreen format. 2- DVD has succeeded, even when most movies have only been available in OAR. Do you honestly think this would have happened if all DVDs were pan & scan? I think not. I, for one, refuse to buy any pan & scan DVDs and will completely cease my DVD purchasing if that is all that is available. If you must distribute pan & scan DVDs, the OAR version must be READILY AVAILABLE and CLEARLY MARKED for purchase by us. I will not jump through hoops to find a widescreen DVD like I did for widescreen videocassette. I am also of the opinion that a mass-education program extolling the virtues of OAR be implemented immediately. This should include in-store flyers (and displays, if possible) and also TV commercials including movie footage displaying that footage in OAR. Also, OAR-education commercials can be aired by themselves. I'm sure the major studios could go in together to produce these. In closing, I am quite happy with DVD thus far. It is really nice being able to go to Wal-Mart to purchase a widescreen movie rather than finding a specialty store as I did for laserdiscs. I appreciate the promotion that has enabled this. I am sure that if the studios work together with us, we can all benefit. [Edited last by Tim Hoover on October 10, 2001 at 11:19 AM]
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#2 of 156 OFFLINE   Jonathan Perregaux

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Posted October 10 2001 - 08:14 AM

I agree with every word Tim has said, down to the last period. Just imagine if movies were diagonally-shaped towards the left and TVs were diagonally-shaped towards the right. We'd be in a whole heap of trouble then. ------------------

#3 of 156 OFFLINE   Inspector Hammer!

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Posted October 10 2001 - 08:54 AM

I don't think that i've ever agreed with a post more completly than I do Tim's! In fact, I would like to suggest to Ron that, provided we keep it civil, this thread be sent to every studio once the posts start piling up. ------------------ God bless the USA and the men and woman of our military and their families!
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#4 of 156 OFFLINE   TheBat



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Posted October 10 2001 - 09:09 AM

I like widescreen also. I never watch the pan and scan side of the disc either.



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#5 of 156 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted October 10 2001 - 12:47 PM

I was always frustrated when movies kept showing up on VHS in pan and scan, when they were widescreen on laserdisc. Finally I gave up and bought a laserdisc player just to be able to get widescreen movies. Then DVD came along and killed off laserdisc, so if the DVD market becomes like VHS those of us who care won't have laserdisc to go back to! I keep saying that the only way to avoid controversy is to have BOTH formats on the SAME disc, which was one of the promised features of DVD when it came out. If there's no room for pan and scan or if the director refuses to allow it (which would be a good thing), include an explanation for the uninitiated. The black bars are not there to cut off the picture!
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#6 of 156 OFFLINE   Jesse Skeen

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Posted October 10 2001 - 12:51 PM

Just wanted to add additional comments about the 'family movies' mentality- one of the first movies released on DVD, "Space Jam", was put out only in pan and scan, but the laserdisc was widescreen, as Warner was doing ALL movies in widescreen on laserdisc after 1992. Even after I got a DVD player, I chose the laserdisc instead of the DVD because of this. Now Warner isn't putting out any more laserdiscs, so they put out the "Pokemon" movies only in pan and scan on DVD, and I don't have the option of getting them on laserdisc, which probably would have still been in widescreen if they had come out! As I said before, if it's really that big a controversy, put out BOTH!
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#7 of 156 OFFLINE   Patrick McCart

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Posted October 10 2001 - 01:35 PM

WB & New Line: Continue the dual-sides and dual releases to allow both formats. MGM: Also continue dual sides and releases and fix Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. Paramount: Keep up the great work! I don't think they've released any P&S DVD's. Artisian: Keep up the great work! FOX: Keep up your support too! Columbia: Keep up the dual-sides releases! Keep widescreen! Disney: Keep up the OAR releases! Universal: Same thing. All studios: We love OAR and educate the public on why OAR is the way to go. ------------------ P.S.: There's no P.S.

#8 of 156 OFFLINE   Rob T

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Posted October 10 2001 - 02:40 PM

as much as I'm offended by the studios releasing movies not in their OAR, I'm more offended by the adults that complain to the big retailers, like Wal-mart, because they don't understand the greatness of widescreen.

#9 of 156 OFFLINE   Rain



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Posted October 10 2001 - 03:11 PM

I'm not worried about it, for the reasons I have explained in many a thread. You see, big corporations are generally short sighted when it comes to trying to make money. If the studios think they will make more money by releasing "formatted to fit your TV"-only DVDs, then they will. Of course, if that were to happen, they would soon see how much money they are losing, because they forgot to consider how many DVDs we pro-OAR folks buy.

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#10 of 156 OFFLINE   Joshua Clinard

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Posted October 10 2001 - 05:52 PM

I totally agree with everything Tim said. I am in favor of educating the masses. I have converted many of my friends to widescreen simply by pointing them to a web page that explains the benefits. Most people will come around when they are clearly shown the benefits. I cannnot show this to everyone. I think the studios and the retailers should start a "Why Widescreen" promotion. Everyone who sees it may not understand, but a GREAT MANY certainly will. I have a few suggestions. 1. Create a good looking informative brocure that could be passed out to people showing side-by-side screen shots from popular scope films. Inlclude URL's to popular DVD web sites in the brocure, including thedigitalbits, DVDfile, the HTF, and a widescreen site, such as widescreen.org. Distribute the brocures and ask that retailers put a stack of them somewhere near the DVD section. Also, you could set up an online site where people like us could purchase them. I know I would sure be willing to pay 20 bucks for a stack of 100 such brocures. Donate a bunch to the HTF, and we can request them from the forum admins. 2. Create a "Why Widescreen" feature similar to the one on the "Die Hard" DVD, that would clearly demonsrate the advantage or widesceen movies, using side-by-side comparisons of popular scope films, and make it as a non-skippable feature that shows before the movie on every DVD. Or you create a demo DVD with a several demonstrations, and you could set up a site, and people like us could buy these to show our friends, to play at retailers, and you could also distribute these demos to the retailers themselves. I would certainly be willing to pay 20 bucks for such a disc. Donate a bunch to the HTF, and we can request them from the forum admins. 3. Create a nice looking flyer, similar to the brocure I described, which can be tacked to bulletin boards at retailers, libraries, schools, churches, you name it. Distribute this to the retailers, and set up a way for us to purhcase them. Donate a bunch to the HTF, and we can request them from the forum admins. 4. Don't offer Pan and Scan. If you do this, sales will go down, but only for a short while. When people realize that they can only have widescreen, they will eventually buy it. There are not many people who will refuse to buy a disc that is widescreen. Sure they may prefer pan and scan, but the movies that are only offered in widescreen still get bought by poeple who prefer Pan and Scan. Most people like this want the movie, and they do not care what format it is in, they just want the movie. On the other hand, there are a far greater number of people who will refuse to buy a dvd that only has Pan and Scan, regardless of the format. Also the people who love widescreen buy a heck of a lot more DVD's than people who prefer Pan & Scan. I know some people on this forum have over 1000 DVD's. I bet most people who prefer Pan & Scan have less then 25 DVD's. Most of these people also rent, rather than buy their DVD's. In conclusion, I would like to way that letting everyone know how cool widescreen is, will only help you make more money. Once the acceptance hits, people will buy widesceen, and when that level gets high enough, you will no longer have to worry about multiple releases, or having enough space on a disc for multiple ratios.

#11 of 156 OFFLINE   TomRS4


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Posted October 10 2001 - 05:54 PM

Maybe it will all be fine in the end, but it's sure causing a lot of stress now. I used to refuse to buy a movie unless it was OAR, but for a while now I refuse to buy a movie unless it's OAR and anamorphic (assuming OAR is wider than 1.33:1). It saddens me to see so many family movies pan & scan or full frame when so much better treatment could be given to these films. The only ways for me to voice my opinion are forums like this or my wallet. My wallet is speaking as loudly as it can. ------------------ Tempus Fugit I should clarify one thing: I won't rent a movie that is not OAR, either. [Edited last by TomRS4 on October 10, 2001 at 08:57 PM]
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#12 of 156 OFFLINE   David Brown Eyes

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Posted October 10 2001 - 08:01 PM

My statement is simple. No widescreen. No sale.* *unless the movie/tv show was released in acedemy ratio.

#13 of 156 OFFLINE   SteveGon


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Posted October 10 2001 - 09:38 PM


No widescreen. No sale.*

*unless the movie/tv show was released in acedemy ratio.


I concur.

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#14 of 156 OFFLINE   NeilEdwards


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Posted October 11 2001 - 05:28 AM

Although I will buy a film that is Widescreen and NOT Anamorphic. I will not buy a P&S film. That is why I am still waiting for "Chariots of Fire". I have over 900 DVD's and still have 1,300 VHS tapes waiting to be released on DVD. True, most are pre-1951, but those that are later and in Widescreen, I want in Widescreen. Widescreen only and preferably Anamorphic. I hate the black bars on the sides of my TV set.

#15 of 156 OFFLINE   Neil Joseph

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Posted October 11 2001 - 06:35 AM

I have been a loyal supporter of the format since June 1997. I have seen many wars fought, including the DIVX issue that they tried to cram down our collective throats. One thing I can tell you, I have never bought a pan and scan only title before and I never will. I no longer buy anything at Circuit City and I never will again because of the DIVX issue. I refuse to purchase any DVD material at Walmart because of their tactics. I will not purchase from any studio that backs down to pressure and releases movies in pan and scan only.

If the un-educated masses out there want movies in pan and scan, I suggest that as studios, you either have a second version for them or let them buy their movies on VHS. Leave the original aspect ratio alone. Bring us movies as they were intended.

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#16 of 156 OFFLINE   CharlesD



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Posted October 11 2001 - 07:31 AM

No OAR = No Sale

I don't care what the movie is, how many extras there are or how cheap the disc is, I won't buy a DVD that does not have the movie in its OAR. ------------------ -- Will Work for Five Million Dollars

#17 of 156 OFFLINE   Craig W

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Posted October 11 2001 - 07:46 AM

I bought a DVD player in February 1998 and have been buying DVDs since the national Warner rollout in September 1997. Over the last 4 years I have purchased over 200 DVDs. Out of those titles I have not purchased a fullscreen version unless it was included with the widescreen version or its original aspect ratio was 1.37:1(the Academy ratio). The early adapters helped put DVD where it is today and now you want to slap us in the face by going pan-and-scan only or open matte which is not an acceptable compromise. Is this because some large retailers cater to uneducated consumers who dislike widescreen? Or are the studios trying to pinch pennies and only offer one option to customers? No OAR for movies with greater than 1.37:1 aspect ratios equals NO SALE to me. Also, I will not accept going back to the unrealistic premiums I had to pay for widescreen laser discs like Fox's Widescreen Collection which retailed $60 and up. The choice is simple: 1. Either try to educate the masses with a short promo on each widescreen DVD or; 2. Offer widescreen and pan-n-scan/open matte in the same package like Warner did on their early releases. With DVD-18 technology you could still offer both versions without compromising quality. Most of the so called special features on new titles are nothing more than Entertainment Tonight fluff so most of this would not be truly missed if they were omitted to offer customers a choice between widescreen and pan-n-scan. After all DVD is about the movie first. Add a second disc for those titles that really call for true special editions. Let me reiterate: No Original Aspect Ratio = NO SALE.

#18 of 156 OFFLINE   Nate Anderson

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Posted October 11 2001 - 09:24 AM

Let me stress...

As long as there are two versions readily available, I don't care.

J6P will get burned when he gets a widescreen T.V and realizes to his dismay that all his pan and scan discs aren't compatible, and he now has black bars on the sides now! Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

And he'll probably then demand a widescreen version of Citizen Kane. Oh wait...J6P possibly couldn't appreciate Citizen Kane. We have nothing to worry about.

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#19 of 156 OFFLINE   Ricky f

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Posted October 11 2001 - 10:02 AM

Hell no to H20 !

Wait a minute that is coyote Ugly

Hell No To Pan and Scan !!!

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#20 of 156 OFFLINE   Jeff Swindoll

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Posted October 11 2001 - 10:48 AM


This will necessitate a huge rerelease of titles in widescreen format

The problem is that the studios will view this as a plus since they would be making you rebuy the product. Posted Image

I was an avid LD collector because the movies were in OAR and lotsa SE features.
The only P/S LD I had as Seven Percent Soluction and that was because I got it cheap.
I am an avid DVD collector because the movies are in OAR and lotsa SE features.
The only P/S ONLY DVD that I have is Seven Percent Solution and that's because I got it cheap.

#1 No OAR = No Sale for me

#2 Universal release Seven Percent Solution in its OAR Posted Image

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