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*** Official "HEIST" Discussion Thread


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#1 of 21 ONLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted November 09 2001 - 11:13 AM

This thread is now designated the Official Discussion Thread for "The Heist". Please, post all comments, links to outside reviews, film and box office discussion items to this thread.

All HTF member film reviews of "The Heist" should be posted to this thread .

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.


Crawdaddy


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[Edited last by Robert Crawford on November 09, 2001 at 06:14 PM]

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#2 of 21 OFFLINE   JohnS

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Posted November 11 2001 - 10:46 AM

I loved this film much better than The Score.
I felt it had much better paing and way better twists.
Plus the ending was better, than the stale ending I felt from The Score.

I loved the dialogue, but did feel i missed some of it, due to the fact I wanted to keep track of the story.
So, a second viewing is needed.

Hopefully Warner Bros. will do a nifty Special Edition on DVD.


I do have one question, maybe you can answer it Crawdaddy.

In the scene where the guy comes in to buy the boat, Rebecca Pidgeon sees someone walking around outside in shadow.

Later we find out it's Rockwell.
He gives the excuse why he came back.

But Rebecca Pidgeon says "He came back to check up on me."

Why did she say that?
Is that because Gene Hackman sent her out before hand to spy on Rockwell/De Vito

Becuase I thought Hackman didn't send out Pidgeon untill after Rockwell came back spying when the boat guy came back.

I might have confused you. I hope not! Posted Image

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[Edited last by JohnS on November 11, 2001 at 05:46 PM]

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#3 of 21 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted November 17 2001 - 02:36 PM

Spoilers ahead, so look away if you haven't seen the film.

I kept thinking that the Rebecca Pidgeon's character would turn out to be Gene Hackman's character's daughter. How many times did we get the "Why is she with YOU?" line in this film?

Did the Pidgeon character really sell out the Hackman character? Why? With that Rockwell character? He was dumb as bricks.

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#4 of 21 OFFLINE   Alex Spindler

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Posted November 17 2001 - 02:43 PM

She fell in love with the money. Rockwell looked to be the one who would end up with the money, so she traded over to him. I'm pretty sure that she would have stayed with Hackman had she suspected the boat scene would have turned out differently. After that, she was sure that she had to follow through.

#5 of 21 OFFLINE   Alex-C

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Posted November 17 2001 - 06:05 PM

I dont know about you but I felt like she planned to dump Sam Rockwell and hook up with Hackman eventually. She was a little too quick to proclaim the bars that he was painting to be the real gold bars, without even checking. And the gold bars were just a few feet away and apparently its easy to detect or reveal the real thing with a knife.

I mean, maybe its a plot hole or something, but I walked out thinking they were planning on hooking up. Wasnt Hackman chuckling as he drove off. Well, I guess he outsmarted them, but maybe he knew.

The thing with these movies is everyone is double crossing each other at every turn its hard to ascertain their true motivations.

Excellently written movie. Much better than The Score, with all due respect to Yoda.
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#6 of 21 ONLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted November 17 2001 - 09:40 PM

Alex,
You've hit the nail on the head. Remember, the last line she spoke to Hackman about being as cute as a Chinese baby! That same line was spoken much earlier in the film. In my opinion, there is hidden meaning behind the words that only she and Hackman know the true definition of......
Unfortunately, I think most people who have seen this film will missed that point.

Crawdaddy

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#7 of 21 OFFLINE   Justin Doring

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Posted November 19 2001 - 04:09 PM

Alex and Robert, I believe you are correct! As in The Spanish Prisoner, "the ending" is not really "the ending." Mamet loves his little jokes and loves his "Asian references." The Spanish Prisoner had the Japanese and Heist had the Chinese.
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#8 of 21 OFFLINE   Jeremy Anderson

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Posted November 20 2001 - 02:38 AM

My interpretation was that Pidgeon's character was playing Rockwell at the end so that Hackman could get away clean. But that's why I loved this movie so much -- the subtleties left it completely open to interpretation.

#9 of 21 OFFLINE   Patrick Sun

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Posted November 20 2001 - 04:45 AM

Or maybe he was able to ditch the bitch, and keep all the gold. Posted Image
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#10 of 21 OFFLINE   BarryNS

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Posted November 20 2001 - 02:13 PM

I agree that this one was very well written with some excellent twists, but I felt a real lack of "chemistry" or sense of "engagement" between the actors in their various roles, other than with Hackman's presence when interacting with the others...in a lot of the scenes it almost felt as if Hackman was acting in his role and everyone else was "inserted"...Devito excluded, the scenes he shared with Hackman were by far the most engaging.
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#11 of 21 ONLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted November 20 2001 - 03:30 PM

Barry,
I felt that Hackman and Lindo had very good film chemistry together. You felt that both characters were partners but also friends in which they had complete trust and confidence with each other.


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#12 of 21 OFFLINE   Charles J P

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Posted August 19 2002 - 04:18 AM

Wow, this thread died a quick death. I picked this up off the previously viewed rack at BlockBuster this weekend and saw it for the first time. I enjoyed it emensely. I'm not sure that the director really gives us enough clues or information to know whether or not the girl will hook up with Hackman again or not. I think its up to us to decide whether we want the "Hollywood ending" or not. Like Oceans 11, much of the plot was just plain implausable, but the movie's pacing keeps you from thinking about until after its over, and by then, its too late, you already enjoyed it Posted Image I will probably watch this again soon, and this movie was probably a good purchase for me because it will have good rewatchability with my whole family.

#13 of 21 OFFLINE   Charles J P

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Posted August 19 2002 - 04:29 AM

I am resurecting both this and the discussion thread because I felt I had something to add to both. I do consider myself a huge film nut, but I find it hard to participate in the Movies forum in general because of all the references to other works, sometimes I feel like people are best buddies with a director or something. Anyway, the reason I'm posting here is because I have a question after reading all your comments. I dont know what you all are talking about when you seem to dislike Mamets style of dialog. Without going to IMDB, I cant say if this is the first Mamet film I've seen and I rarely know or care who directed a film. So, what is that Mamet does (apperently in all his films) that is dislikeable. Would you have rather seen this same film directed by someone else, and if so, why?

#14 of 21 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted August 19 2002 - 07:38 AM

Quote:
So, what is that Mamet does (apperently in all his films) that is dislikeable. Would you have rather seen this same film directed by someone else, and if so, why?

I moved this post to the official discussion thread, because it calls for a response (i.e., a discussion). Official review threads are for reviews only and are not intended for back-and-forth.

To address the question: I don't think the issue is with Mamet the director but with Mamet the writer. The dialogue in both his films and his plays has a recognizable staccato rhythm that some people truly dislike. I think it's less noticeable in Heist than in earlier films like House of Games, but a lot depends on the particular actor's delivery.

It's never bothered me. All dialogue is stylized; Mamet's is just stylized differently.

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#15 of 21 OFFLINE   Charles J P

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Posted August 19 2002 - 08:09 AM

Ah, thanks for merging my posts. As I often do when I am late to the game seeing a movie, I do a search in the movies section for the official review and discussion threads and usually find hundreds of posts already covering everything I could possibly have to say about the movie. Here though, I find two threads with a total of 20 some posts. Strange I dont know if people didnt like the moviem or just didnt have anything to say about it; it seems like the only thing I've ever seen on the forum about the movie besides these two small threads is repeated quoting of the DeVito lines about money... anyway, I really like the film. I'm not sure I like it as well as Oceans 11, but I need to watch it again to decide, also to see if I notice anything "wrong" with the dialog.

#16 of 21 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted August 19 2002 - 08:46 AM

I don't think a lot of people saw Heist. The release wasn't very wide, and the timing was unfortunate, coming so soon after The Score.

I found the film to be a departure for Mamet as a writer/director. It's the most visual and action-oriented of all his films to date, and that may be part of the reason why nothing struck you as unusual. (It also didn't hurt having Hackman as the lead; he can sell almost any line.)

Contrary to popular belief, not all Mamet dialogue sounds the same. If you take something like Oleanna, which is virtually a filmed version of his play, and compare it to something like his scripts for The Untouchables or The Verdict, it's obvious that you're dealing with a writer who has a broad range.

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#17 of 21 OFFLINE   Stefan A

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Posted August 20 2002 - 03:00 AM

Just the other day I read a review of Heist in The Perfect Vision. The reviewer pointed out that Mamet does not allow improvisation from the actors. They have to read the script exactly as he wrote it. The reviewer pointed out that this constriction can make good actors not seem natural - like we are used to seeing them. Specifically, he pointed out Hackman's innability to deliver the lines in the proper Mamet Style.

But, I guess this is just one man's opinion. Still a great movie though.

#18 of 21 OFFLINE   Holadem

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Posted June 15 2003 - 01:24 PM

I just saw this today - it was on my to watch list since it was released. What a great movie!

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money"

Now exactly what is so hard to get about that line? I ran a search and it seems it went right by a lot of people, since many were asking for explanation.

I was with some friends this afternoon, and used 4 or 5 lines from this one to great effect, especially the bible over the heart story. The movie alone is worth that joke Posted Image.

Now here comes the question: What other movies from Mamet would you recommend? I am looking for something in the vein of Heist and the Spanish Prisonner, rather than the Untouchables or the Verdict.

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#19 of 21 OFFLINE   Alex Spindler

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Posted June 15 2003 - 01:43 PM

I'm quite partial to House of Games myself. That and Glengarry Glen Ross are both quite excellent.

#20 of 21 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted June 15 2003 - 03:36 PM

State and Main. It's a comedy, but it's just as biting. And there's even a con or two, of sorts.

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