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*** Official Star Trek Films Discussion

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#1 of 76 OFFLINE   Tino


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Posted April 16 2002 - 03:17 PM

Since Star Wars and Lord Of The Rings have their official threads, I thought why not create a Star Trek thread so that we can discuss our likes and dislikes of all the Trek films and our thoughts on the upcoming Star Trek: Nemesis film. I started a lengthy review thread of the Nemesis script whch can be found doing a simple search on NEMESIS.

OK, I'll start with a few of my thoughts on the Trek Films:

Star Trek: The Motion Picture.

In a lot of ways, this much maligned, often criticized first theatrical venture of the starship Enterprise is my favorite. I dunno, maybe it was the epic scope of the film, the wonderful effects, the great Jerry Goldsmith score

or the fact that finally here was a Star Trek film on the big screen. But for some reason, it's the Trek film I have watched the most over the years.

Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan

A return to the action style of the original series with a lot of the comraderie and humor that was missing from the first. A genuine crowd pleaser and a lot of fun.

Star Trek III: The Search For Spock

A somber serious entry in the series with great effects. Reminds me a lot of Empire Strikes Back in a way with its tone.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home

Arguably the most humorous entertaining entry so far of the series with a goofy story but somehow it works. George and Gracie rule...really!

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

The real misfire so far. A good idea ruined by clumsy diretion and really bad effects. I still like it though.

Star Trek VI; The Undiscovered Country The last Trek film with the original cast and a great who-done-it, Star Trek style.

Star Trek: Generations

The first Trek film with the NG cast. MAlcolm McDowell made for an interesting villan and the crash of the Enterprise is, IMO, the best visual effect sequence so far in all of the films.

Star Trek: First Contact

Am all out action film from beginnig to end with the Borg Queen seducing Data, battles in space, and rock and roll!

Star Trek: Insurrection

An interesting, if slight, entry in the series. Not bad at all.

Coming this November of course is Star Trek: Nemesis. As I said, the script IMO was great. Full of action, humor, great villains, and lots of surprises. It does have similarities to WOK, but stands on it's own as an original Trek adventure. Early reports have been very favorable and as I have also said before, I predict it will be a smash.

So..Feel free to discuss any or all of the films. All I ask is that we keep this discussion civil. If you hate a film, please give reasons why you do.

Live Long And ProsperPosted Image
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#2 of 76 OFFLINE   Terrell



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Posted April 16 2002 - 03:32 PM

I think this is a good idea. As for Star Trek, I've never been a huge fan, but there are some I really like. The Motion Picture and The Undiscovered Country are my two favorites. I haven't seen the last two Star Trek films in theaters, but I do plan on going to see Nemesis. Good to hear you like the script.

#3 of 76 OFFLINE   Chuck Mayer

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Posted April 16 2002 - 03:57 PM

Hey Tino...good idea. I have not seen Insurrection, but I am pretty excited for Nemesis. I'll join in later with thoughts on the films, but to show my age, I prefer TNG to TOS. Patrick Stewart was a great choice as the new Captain, and a good direction for the concept. Take care, Chuck
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#4 of 76 OFFLINE   Chuck Anstey

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Posted April 16 2002 - 04:41 PM

Okay, here is my take being a much bigger fan of TOS than TNG. I really tried to like TNG and some are decent but I never accepted Picard as a captain that his crew would respect. Star Trek: The Motion Picture : They went for the big scope film rather than a really strong two-hour episode except they re-used and already overused plot. It was decent but slow. The Director's Cut on DVD has a much different feel to it and I generally like it a little better. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan : The best of the series. It showed the major characters at their best. Kirk winning due to cunning, bluffing, and outright skill, every reason he was "The great Captain Kirk." Spock was shown to take his normal logical view to its "logical" extreme. Star Trek III: The Search For Spock : The actors do not have many movies left in them, why o' why did they make this one? There were so many good stories to choose from like "The Undiscovered Country", which was being pushed. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home : Decent light-hearted adventure along the lines of "A Piece of the Action". Star Trek V: The unbelievable POS" : See ST3 and multiply by 100. WTF were they thinking? I can't see how anyone could read the script and go "Hey, this would make a great movie!". Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country : Good movie getting the characters back in character. The extra scenes on video helped explain things even better. Star Trek: Generations : Marginal and Captain Kirk was wasted (not in the killed sense) in the movie. However, if they had Kirk commanding a starship as he was in TOS, it have shown how inadequate Picard was as a captain. Star Trek: First Contact : I want to see the movie the trailers were for, not the one that was shown at the theater. Two minutes of action followed by 100 minutes of fluff and Captain Picard acting completely out of character. I believed Captain Kirk in "Obsession" but not Picard in this outing. I think another major problem is there are just too many characters fighting for screen time. Even a friend who was a huge TNG fan also thought it sucked. Star Trek: Insurrection : Finally the execs seem to understand that "action = money" but it was too little too late. The characters now behave completely differently than they did entire 7 year TV series. Everything was predictable. Let the opinions fly! I am interest in other people's takes on the films and ready to defend mine. Charles Anstey

#5 of 76 OFFLINE   Tino


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Posted April 17 2002 - 11:03 AM


In regard to Insurrection.

Wasn't it explained in the film that the crew was affected by the regenerative rings in the Briar Patch, hence their "strange" behavior.

And if they were acting completely different, how was it predictable?Posted Image
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#6 of 76 OFFLINE   TheLongshot



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Posted April 17 2002 - 12:25 PM

My take: Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The original cut felt like an overly long episode. (rumor was, the plot was originally supposed to be a pilot episode for a new TV series.) The director's cut does a better job of cutting down on the dead time. (traversing V'ger doesn't take near as long now.) Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan Still my favorite. The testosterone flies everywhere. Star Trek III: The Search For Spock The required response after the events of II. It is a decent film. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home The most humorous. Sometimes, I think the concept is too silly for its own good, but it worked well enough. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier Went way too overboard with the humor. William Shatner should never be allowed to direct again. This was the first ST film that I didn't go to the theaters for. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country Also called "The Apology". The franchise returns to form. It should have been the last with the original crew. Star Trek: Generations Not a good sign when you have to bring one of the TOS characters in the film. Basically, the Next Generation cast wasn't trusted to carry the film. Star Trek: First Contact A decent outing for the NG crew. Action made up for some of the flaws in this film. Star Trek: Insurrection Don't know. Haven't seen it. Second film that I didn't see in the theaters. Jason

#7 of 76 OFFLINE   Joel H

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Posted April 17 2002 - 12:59 PM

Posted Image Trek is and always will be about TOS for me. I'll never forget the first day that STTNG was set to debut, I invited some Trekkies over to watch. I made them all promise not to compare it to TOS, give it a chance and let's see what happens. So we watched & afterwards we all critiqued "Encounter at Farpoint". Fun, then I sent them all home. That's when I shut the door and turned to my wife and said, "Kirk would NEVER have surrendered the Enterprise!" Sorry - true story.

STTMP = Needs to be given the rightful props it deserves, if not for the success of the film (though slow-moving and tedious at times)it heralded the re-birth of Star Trek.

Sure the movie has problems:weak script, wooden acting & plot worm-holes to name just a few, but every ST show since has tried to recreate the awe and majesty of the Enterprise leaving drydock (insert Jerry Goldsmith music here) to no avail. Those scenes couldn't be better....

#8 of 76 OFFLINE   Will_B



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Posted April 17 2002 - 03:19 PM

First Contact was the best in my book, but y'know, the Borg, when you think about it, the Borg are just Space Vampires.
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#9 of 76 OFFLINE   Brad_V


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Posted April 17 2002 - 04:20 PM

The first movie was new and interesting, but the crew would have probably gotten a lot more done if they weren't busy staring out the windows all the time. Something bugged me about Picard since day one, but I could never put my finger on it until someone else nailed it a few years ago. And now Joel did, too. When someone wanted Kirk to surrender The Enterprise, there would hushed silence and wide-eyed looks of horror at even the mere thought of such a thing. Meanwhile, Picard surrendered The Enterprise *in the very first episode*.

#10 of 76 OFFLINE   Robert Crawford

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Posted April 17 2002 - 04:32 PM

Official status has been bestowed. Crawdaddy

#11 of 76 OFFLINE   Tino


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Posted April 17 2002 - 04:35 PM

Thanks Robert!Posted Image
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#12 of 76 OFFLINE   Ben Osborne

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Posted April 17 2002 - 05:46 PM


First Contact was the best in my book, but y'know, the Borg, when you think about it, the Borg are just Space Vampires.


I don't like the way First Contact changed a lot of the things about the Borg. They were a lot cooler in the television episodes. The original idea was for them to be an impersonal, amoral, faceless enemy. As you pointed out, the movie makes them into more-or-less typical villians. The Borg Queen is simply an atrocious idea that goes against everything we learned about the Borg in the episodes, and the ability of the individual drones to just instantly assimilate people is hackneyed. The movie pales in comparison to the two-part episode, The Best of Both Worlds. Why the writers of the movies can't just go with what worked in the episodes is beyond me.

#13 of 76 OFFLINE   Chuck Anstey

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Posted April 17 2002 - 06:36 PM

As another who didn't like Captain Picard, I spent some time trying to figure out exactly what it was about him as a captain I didn't like and why I didn't think any real person would follow him as a leader. It did finally dawn on me: He cares more for the life of aliens than he does for his own crew and planet Earth. Contrast TOS: Obsession (killer white gas cloud) with TNG: The Crystalline Entity? where the "mad" scientist destroyed it. In Obsession, an alien life form kills a few crew members and Kirk dedicates his ship to destroying it to possibly save the rest of humanity. In "Crystalline Entity" (don't know the real title), the entity wipes out an entire planet, kills at least 20 crew on a freighter right in front of the Enterprise, plus it already tried to destroy them once before and all Picard has to say is "All lifeforms have a right to live." Yeah, like my own as well as others. He was willing to sacrifice all sentient beings, especially his crew, just to make sure this creature survives. People would not follow a person who would so easily throw their life away for no good reason. Another TNG episode that really got me cranked up was the one where Picard "dies" and Q lets him alter any past regrets. What an excellent episode to show him that all those traits he now despises (arrogance, confidence, brashness, boldness) were what got him the Captain's chair. I totally loved it except that he learned nothing and he went back to being his conservative, timid self instead of realizing he had lost the qualitie that made him Captain and to get them back. I feel much better now. Chuck Anstey

#14 of 76 OFFLINE   Jonathan Perregaux

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Posted April 17 2002 - 09:22 PM

SPOILERS WITHIN! Star Trek: The Motion Picture Arguably the only real science fiction-oriented installment in the entire Star Trek film series, The Motion Picture was a flawed but earnest attempt at giving us something deep and mysterious to think about. In the primitive 60’s, Star Trek always excelled at this. However, Star Trek made do with a very limited budget. In fact, it could be argued that this modest budget forced writers and crew to tighten up the production to make every penny count and therefore focus on characters and story rather than technology and effects. With The Motion Picture’s mind-boggling budget of almost $50 million (in 1979 no less), the producers made an almost embarrassingly bold attempt to widen the Star Trek canvas far beyond anything the old television show could pull off. Unfortunately, it left us with a very large painting and not much else. What this movie failed to do on every level was remember what the heart of Star Trek was all about: great characters in an interesting story. Equally bothersome to fans, it seemed that “change for the sake of change” was the order of the day as practically everything endearing and familiar about Star Trek: The Original Series was discarded and replaced by utter blandness—including the acting. Compounding this, there were some real cringe-inducing moments (stay awake long enough through the drawn-out special effects sequences and you might actually catch a few). While The Director’s Edition rectified many of these editorial problems (as far as it was possible given the material), we are still left with something that isn’t quite bad but isn’t quite good, either. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan While some (including Gene Roddenberry) might take exception to the overly militaristic approach used in this particular film, you can’t deny that this one proved that Star Trek could kick major ass. Of all the Star Trek movies before or since, this one reigns supreme. With its undeniable propensity for sheer excitement, The Wrath of Khan was the most brilliantly crafted film in the entire series for both plot and tone. Its powerful themes of life, death, renewal and sacrifice rang true and involved us in a way no television episode could ever hope to achieve. In fact, no other Trek installment even came close to hitting the mark as fearlessly and squarely as Star Trek II did. Taken by itself (and forgetting its sequel for the moment), there was not one single cheat in this entire story. Everything was honest, to the point, realistic, and emotionally moving. With assured acting and dialog, this film wound up like a precision watch and never let up. Unlike a lot of other films in this series, The Wrath of Khan knocked aside bothersome plot exposition with an easy, almost breezy manner and with a minimum of techno babble. Like a hungry predator, it relentlessly went for the throat, always maintaining a chair-squirming crescendo of suspense in which no punches were pulled. By its conclusion, you were left as spent as the characters were. It seemed impossible that both the audience and the crew of the Enterprise wouldn’t walk away from this unforgettable adventure without feeling changed in some way. They definitely don’t make ’em like this anymore. Star Trek III: The Search for Spock This was by far the most schizophrenic entry in the whole film series. One gets the sense while watching that this was the most masterful piece of shit—or the shittiest masterpiece, depending on how you look at it—to come out of the entire Trek series. This film picked up the action where Khan left off, taking with it some inevitable story baggage. But instead of starting out fresh, this film undertook a most thankless task: that of thoroughly undermining the dramatic turn taken by Star Trek II and resurrecting the deceased Mr. Spock after one of the best death scenes ever filmed. Despite this glaring weakness, however, The Search for Spock staked its own ground by involving Kirk and his friends in their most personal mission to date. Themes of friendship, sacrifice and loss were reaffirmed with startling results when Admiral Kirk and his closest friends threw away everything important to them in order to save Spock from a fate worse than death. This particular plot line was powerful stuff and worked well on the silver screen, leading to one of William Shatner’s best acting performances ever. In fact, it was possibly the best story idea ever concocted for a Star Trek film. Too bad the real climax happened in the middle of the movie when they stole the Enterprise. The rest of this goofy joke of a movie was pure drivel, at times quite painful to watch for its sheer awfulness and blatant predictability. By the time you were hit square in the face with the biggest shockers of them all—the death of Kirk’s son David and the destruction of the starship Enterprise—you were left hating this film for being so wonderfully fricken horrible. The few remaining good bits in this grimly impenetrable barge of Season Three outtakes were so totally overshadowed by blunders that one might wonder, How hard can it really be to make movies, anyway? Was it really necessary to portray Starfleet as a group of swaggering morons designed only to make our heroes look good? Was it impossible for an actor taking on the recast role of Lieutenant Saavik to continue playing what was essentially a fully-developed character full of subtle Vulcan nuances, a streak of hot-blooded Romulan passion and a healthy dose of smoldering sex appeal? Did we really need to have the ending of the movie become a foregone conclusion because the thing was bone-headedly titled The Search for Spock? If Spock hadn’t come back, there would have been no point making this film and the producers could have skipped merrily onto… Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home The original series always shined when it allowed the humor of its characters to flow naturally in the middle of a tense situation. Who can forget when Mr. Spock was trapped inside a giant space-going amoeba, insisting that the crew not risk themselves to rescue him, and Dr. McCoy bellowed, “Shut-up, Spock! We’re rescuing you!” Moments like this were in abundance in the witty and thought-provoking script for The Voyage Home. This cleverly crafted fish-out-of-water story (no pun intended) brought the series it to an unexpected new level and proved that a Star Trek movie adventure could be thoroughly engaging without resorting to killing any main characters or dealing with another shipful of “Klingon bastards.” Coupled with some old plot ideas that had always been the grist of Star Trek’s creative mill, but which remain fresh here—time travel, a giant space probe, heretofore unrevealed information about life on our own planet, a good episode-concluding speech—the concluding chapter in “The Wrath of Khan trilogy” worked on all levels. For a change, everyone managed to relax and have fun without falling out of character. When Kirk, Spock and McCoy bantered or discussed problems, it sounded like a real conversation, not a lot of meaningless doubletalk involving “quantum exo potrazeebie particle oscillators.” Even when Spock struggled with some of the 20th century’s “more colorful metaphors” as he slowly recovered from his death and resurrection, it was totally in character… and truly funny. Star Trek V: The Final Frontier Someone must have analyzed the success of The Voyage Home and come to the twisted conclusion that since Star Trek IV was funny and it made over 100 million dollars, then being even more funny will provide an equal increase in box office. But what made the fourth film work was that it was well-written and made great use of all the familiar characters in an interesting situation. The humorous aspects, while in abundance, were completely natural and consistent with the characters as we knew them. In The Final Frontier, the humor was forced, inappropriate, and—worst of all—not very damned funny. In addition, almost nothing in this film made any sense, a recurring problem which destroyed all hope of suspending disbelief even briefly. Nearly everyone was sorely out of character. The special effects were painfully bad; the campfire singing was even worse. Indeed, the writing on this major motion picture turkey couldn’t get any sloppier: suddenly the Enterprise-A was as thick as a major skyscraper (78 decks?!) and able to traverse half the distance of the galaxy nearly as fast as Voyager when it got flung by the Caretaker Array. In one painful ball of sci-fi agony, this movie reintroduced all the mistakes of Star Trek’s third season and then some. Just how, exactly, do you get out of the writer’s trap of going off to meet God when you know there can be no satisfactory resolution to this without cheating the audience? If Captain Kirk actually meets God, you offend practically every religious-minded human on the planet. If you don’t meet God, then why go through the bother of making a movie about meeting God? What a waste of celluloid. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered County Finally, Star Trek was taking itself seriously again (but not too seriously). Recycling Star Trek II’s original subtitle, The Undiscovered County was a rousing whodunit, gift wrapped and delivered as only Star Trek could. This was to be the farewell adventure for the original crew, and although it lacked the raw punch of earlier films, it nevertheless gave us a thoroughly enjoyable escapade with which to give our aging heroes a worthy sendoff. Hell, this movie is worth the time and money just to see Captain Sulu commanding the Excelsior and saying, “Fly her apart then!” The only real flaws in this otherwise enjoyable flick were some trivial mistakes (the Enterprise never had cooks preparing food in a galley; that’s what they had those food processor units in the walls for) and some rather disturbing characterizations. I can almost accept Spock getting angry at someone he placed his utmost trust in, but never would he force a mind-meld on someone. Never. And where did all that blatant and ugly racism come from all of a sudden? Are we in the 23rd century or is it 1967 again? (“Guess who’s coming to dinner?” says Chekov of the soon-to-be-visiting Klingons in a not-very-subtle reference to the movie starring Sidney Poitier, in a line given to Walter Koenig after Nichelle Nichols refused to say it.) We are also treated to an interesting but unsurprising end-of-the-movie-oh-God-we-might-get-destroyed-but-probably-not space battle with the Klingons (again). All that aside, though, The Undiscovered County comes through as a worthy adventure worth seeing again. Star Trek: Generations Some ideas are best left scribbled on a napkin. “Kirk Meets Picard” is one such idea. The problem with it is that it is too easy to screw up, particularly in the hands of a lesser writer. And when it comes to Star Trek: The Next Generation motion picture screenwriters, that is exactly what you usually get: a screw-up. On the surface, Generations tried very hard to be a good Star Trek movie. It even followed the complete paint-by-the-numbers fan boy itinerary: it had Kirk in it. It had Picard in it. We got to see the previously unseen Enterprise-B (commanded by Ferris Bueller’s friend Cameron). Worf got a promotion aboard the sailing frigate Enterprise. Mr. Data finally got his emotion chip and said “Shit.” We learned more about Guinan and why she’s so weird. Kirk got killed off (kind of like Spock in The Wrath of Khan, only different). They destroyed the U.S.S. Enterprise and left an uncertain ending for our heroes (kind of like The Search for Spock, only different). There was even a fair amount of time-travel thrown in (kind of like The Voyage Home, only different) and a space battle with a Klingon Bird of Prey (kind of like The Undiscovered Country and The Search for Spock and The Final Frontier, only different). Too bad all these independently good ideas were clumsily thrown together in an inept, made-for-TV regurgitation befitting the likes of Rick Berman or else we might have ended up with a decent Star Trek movie. Oh, Harve Bennett, how we need you back behind the producer’s desk! Star Trek: First Contact The strongest of all the Next Generation films, it nevertheless pales in comparison to The Wrath of Khan. That said, I really enjoyed the hell out of this movie. The acting exhibited here was superb, thanks in no small part to Patrick Stewart. However, I do feel compelled to level the following criticism at this film: it relied too much on something David Gerrold (“The Trouble with Tribbles”) called “artificial excitement.” For example, the new starship Enterprise-E almost got scuttled with the infamous self-destruct plot device (virtually guaranteed to generate lots of artificial excitement so you can pretend something will really happen to the ship). Sorry, but this was been done before and with far greater impact in The Search for Spock—a movie that wasn’t afraid to actually blow up the Enterprise and make it stick. Even Generations had the balls to blow up the ship and leave it blown up. Also, once again, we were shown the crew of a starship named Enterprise defying inexplicably idiotic Starfleet orders in order to act cool and save the day (or, in this case, save the Earth—another endless source of artificial excitement). Too bad Admiral Kirk and his crew already showed us what defying dumb orders was really all about in Star Trek III (and again to a lesser extent in Star Trek VI). And as good as it may seem, First Contact doesn’t even live up to “The Best of Both Worlds” episode from which it sprang. In that episode, at least, there was a real sense of tragedy and permanence that are the hallmarks of all great dramas. Not so in this movie. What the writers failed to realize was that while it might be entertaining to show characters in jeopardy and risking it all so save the Earth (again), it doesn’t amount to very much if there is no real impact on their lives afterward. Star Trek: Insurrection As I said before, some ideas are best left scribbled on a napkin. One of them actually was: let’s make Star Trek IX a musical! Thank goodness that idea didn’t float for long. But some other ideas, like poop, do float. So what we got instead was a tepid effort to recycle yet another television episode script while simultaneously stealing the old “We’re violating direct orders and loving it, too!” routine from The Search for Spock. Now, having seen the result of what must have been some furious brainstorming in an attempt to reuse old story ideas, maybe the “Heart of Lightness” musical concept wouldn’t have been so bad after all. But don’t get me wrong. Insurrection was not a terrible movie, at least not in the way that Leprechaun 4: In Space was a terrible movie. But it did suck. A lot. Ever mindful of the old formula FUNNY = MONEY, the producers gave us even more wildly inappropriate and somewhat unfunny character moments in the same spirit of The Final Frontier—only this time with a different egotistical Star Trek actor directing the action. After all these years of waiting, Insurrection finally let us see Worf sing “A British Tar,” grow a giant zit and bang his head on the bulkhead in a fond homage to Scotty whacking his noggin in Star Trek V. As an added bonus, we got to hear Dr. Crusher and Troi discuss how their breasts were firming up in the youth invigorating climate of the Ba’Ku, which prompted Mr. Data to ask Worf if his breasts were firming up. Now imagine this same type of dialog being uttered anywhere in The Wrath of Khan or The Motion Picture or even The Final Frontier and you begin to see just how silly and useless this movie really is. (And just how that stupid joystick scene ever made it into the final cut we may never know.) Star Trek: Nemesis Here's hoping the even-numbered rule holds up.

#15 of 76 OFFLINE   kevin_tomb


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Posted April 18 2002 - 06:42 AM

jonathan I kinda agree on a lot of what you said, which is quite a lot...Posted Image But I gotta disagree on ST GENERATIONS. I think that movie isnt given the respect it deserves. Where I work, we have access to wrath of khan and generations. At first everyone wanted to watch khan. That was cool, cause it had good action and tension etc. Where the problem started was after about 10 playings it got old. So we switched out DEMO movie to GENERATIONS. At first we were kinda bored by it, but loved a few scenes. You know the crash and when kirk gets killed by sohran etc. But guess what?? Now its been playing almost nonstop for 2 years now, and noone is tired of it..!!...Im not sure what that means, but everyone including non star trek types love this movie now. Everyone quotes lines from it liek its shakespeare...Posted Image

THis movie kinda tried very hard and I think it wasnt afraid to use most of the popular themes in STAR TREK. Dont critisize it for using familiar themes. I think it kinda has a mixture of comedy, action, huge scope, and most of all SCIENCE FICTION. The NEXUS and the "evil" doctor at least based the movie on a idea and kept with it. Sure the kirk meeting picard idea was a bit weird at first, but I think if you were to rewatch this movie again you might like it a bit more. It kinda has the smoothest flow storyline wise. A true masterpeice. Kind the best of motion pictures grand scope with khans action and tension and voyage homes humour.

#16 of 76 OFFLINE   kevin_tomb


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Posted April 18 2002 - 06:58 AM

Another thing I sense is a breach between people who like the old series and hate next generation. I kinda like both. I think the old series was great in a comic book old SF type of way and was typical of a 1960s attitude. Trust me I watched TOS series almost 20 times over for sure, every episode. There are a lot of good episodes but a lot of crap ones also. I dont know how many times they use the land on a planet and get captured scenario. All communication are cut off and transporters are useless also conveniently. That was the bad part of TOS. The good was the fun they seemed to be having and the sheer action and humor of the series. On the other hand NEXT GENERATION tried for a much more mature approach and for the most part suceeded if you count out the sucky first series and a good bit of series 2. I dont think anyone can fault the acting of the main characters in TNG. ITs biggest problem was at first it tried to pay homage and kinda immitate TOS. A BIG MISTAKE. IMO NEXT GENERATIONS 4th 5th and 6th and part of 7th seasons couldnt be touched by any of the other star trek incantations. Sure there were a few lame episodes, but for the most part they were excellent. I dont really compare the various series though. Each has its particular story type and characters etc. Its like saying "hey next generation isnt like TOS" Well I sure hope not, that was the 1960s and its so different in the 80s. But then some say "hey next generation is TOO like TOS" Which way is it??? Sure the whole world of star trek is similar, but they couldnt immitate TOS. That would have seemed ridiculous. SOmetimes I think they cant win.

#17 of 76 OFFLINE   Bhagi Katbamna

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Posted April 18 2002 - 09:53 AM


It did finally dawn on me: He cares more for the life of aliens than he does for his own crew and planet Earth.

[quote] I completely agree. I would have liked more destruction and less "understanding". What I liked about Kirk was that if it didn't speak English, it was toast.
To educate a man in mind and not morals is to educate a menace to society.
Teddy Roosevelt

#18 of 76 OFFLINE   todd stone

todd stone


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Posted April 18 2002 - 11:30 AM

I love the next generation crew. i cannot STAND the old crew. kirk was and always will be a moron imo. Picard is the true captain. I loved insurrection
Lo, there do I see my mother, and my sisters, and my brothers, Lo, there do I see the line of my people, back to the beginning, Lo, they do call to me, they bid me take my place among them, In the halls of Valhalla,where the brave may live...

#19 of 76 OFFLINE   Tino


    Lead Actor

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Posted April 18 2002 - 12:32 PM

Hey Guys

Let's not turn his thread into a Kirk vs. Picard thread. That's not what this thread is about.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses

obviously. It's all a matter of preference (although, of course, Kirk is the man!Posted Image).

A few more thoughts on The Motion Picture. I watched part of it again yesterday and a lot of the appeal for me is that it is so epic in many ways.

The sets, the visual effects, the music, the story....everything was bigger than life. And after 10 years of waiting for a Star Trek film, seeing it on the big screen made up a lot for some of the films shortcomings.

The Enterprise's voyage through the V'Ger cloud still looks great even by todays standards.

As I said, it may not be the best, but I think it's my favorite.Posted Image
It's gonna be a hell of a ride. I'm ready. .

#20 of 76 OFFLINE   Philip Klein

Philip Klein

    Stunt Coordinator

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Posted April 18 2002 - 01:19 PM

talkin bout Sisko, he's a bad......
Keep On Tolkien

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