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***Official*** Rotel RSP 1066 Fact and LOGICAL discussion thread


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1085 replies to this topic

#1 of 1086 Steven Phipps

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Posted March 25 2002 - 10:54 AM

Well folks, I hope all the BS could stay in the other thread, feel free to keep it alive if you wish, but I won't even give it the time of day any longer (PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS STATEMENT)...that being said:

This thread I hope will be an actual "about the 1066" thread!

For those who are interested, I have received an e-mail from Mike at Rotel and I expect the parts regarding the designers are not discussed in this thread as I am afraid it will lead to the same problem as the original thread, feel free to comment there if you like.

Mike wrote:

"Dear Steve,

We really appreciate you working with us during your problem with hum and I can assure you that the units we are shipping do not exhibit any problems of this kind. I am not claiming that we have resolved your issue because until we can place a new unit in your home we won't know exactly where we stand. But I've tried every which way from Sunday and can't find the problem in these new units.

....you might like to consider posting some of the following.....It's getting so ridiculous with somebody claiming to know the designer! We know the designers and they are all pretty good guys they drop by from time to time and they are very committed to making a good product....we all are.

Misinformation breeds misinformation and here are a few factual points that are probably worth you posting. You may say they are in a reply to your questions if you wish.

The CD input is an analog pass through if you don’t want the sub woofer to perform turn it off either unplug it or use the OSD setting to minimize the level. Signals from the analog side are passed to the digital circuit to activate the sub-woofer…..owners of sub-woofer generally want to hear them operate and often have smaller speakers that they cannot conveniently rewire.
Rotel does use AKM DAC’s and ADC’s and they seem to be pretty good. AKM is a primary producer. As far we understand Crystal has bought components from AKM and other companies. One person in the discussion group hit-the-nail-on-the-head when he commented that component decisions are often made way out and it’s difficult to re-engineer and use another part. Mind you there’s a lot of postulation about spec numbers on these chips but the reality is that they are not always as relevant or as important towards the final performance as perhaps assumed.

Multi-channel 5.1 input is required to be compatible with SACD and DVD-A. There is an industry move to establish an unbreakable digital format however so far there is only proprietary digital formats available for DVD-A to processor. There will need to be an alternative design for SACD and so what will this added digital complexity gain the buyer now? Will these formats be supported long term and will they survive?

Remote control RR 969 is a full learning remote this means you can teach it another 9 products and use to control the entire system and it’s fully back lit. Names are programmable for inputs and sources so it works in many languages, it has a timer, a clock, cloning and macros…..these are a lot of useful features.

As I understand it during the design of the remote control a decision had to be made whether the source buttons for the processor/receiver were on top or the page selection buttons. Of course there could be more buttons exposed however the idea is to minimize the button confusion for the inexperienced user. The source buttons were covered and in practice we have seen the majority of normal users prefer this arrangement…..It’s only the techies who can’t cope however load some DVD codes and TV codes and then use the remote and you may conclude the lay is more than acceptable.

All electronics need time to break in……the industry experts have been saying this for years, speakers and electronics perform better after a period of use and electronics always sound better when not turned off at all.

Rotel SP 1066 can have it's software be upgraded via the RS 232 jack. This means that new editions of formats can be added as can operating functions be changed.

Atlantic Technology/Outlaw Audio have a good idea to beta test units…..maybe Rotel should do the same?

Best Regards,
Mike Sheehan
Customer Support Specialist"

I guess they are listening to us after all! They seem to be open to new avenues according to the last line.

#2 of 1086 brian a

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Posted March 25 2002 - 11:44 AM

Quote:
The CD input is an analog pass through if you don’t want the sub woofer to perform turn it off either unplug it or use the OSD setting to minimize the level. Signals from the analog side are passed to the digital circuit to activate the sub-woofer




What exactly does this mean? It's an analog pass through, but it's digitized? I don't understand what he's trying to say here.

#3 of 1086 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted March 25 2002 - 11:53 AM

Steven: thanks for posting that email from Mike. I believe he is the good guy in North Reading, MA, who was so helpful with the information on the Rotel 1066 for my initial review(which is obviously delayed). He was very knowledgeable and actually referred to the schematics on this unit as we spoke. He was also the one who corrected the information initially provided by TW on the DACs in the 1066. Anyway, I believe that if he says it, it is most likely true about the 1066. If interested, you can call him directly if needed at 978-664-3820.
If the 1066 is fixed as he says, it may just yet turn out to be as good as the customer service they've been able to give me so far.

Are you planning on getting a tuner to use with this unit, and if so, which ones are you considering and why?


#4 of 1086 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted March 25 2002 - 12:37 PM

Quote:
What exactly does this mean? It's an analog pass through, but it's digitized? I don't understand what he's trying to say here.
Brian: If it is digitized to utilize a crossover, then it isn't an analog bypass circuit. Maybe, Mike means that it uses an analog filter, much like the 5.1 input on the Outlaw 950, to pull out a subwoofer signal? That way, as I understand it, it could still be an analog bypass circuit.
Steven: Did Mike say anthing else on this topic? How do you think the CD circuit pulls out a subwoofer signal?


#5 of 1086 Steven Phipps

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Posted March 25 2002 - 01:42 PM

Quote:
Signals from the analog side are passed to the digital circuit to activate the sub-woofer


Sounds to me as though the signal is sent both ways, but only the sub is sent through the DAC's to then produce the subs signal. I could ask Mike to elaborate on this if you wish. This, however, has never concerned me, as I myself prefer the "non-direct" sound from any source usually. I also find my sub integrates very well with my ML Aerius speakers, especially with the 1066. Maybe I will have to do some more tests of analog vs. digital with the 1066, maybe it will surprise me. I still haven't had a chance to really sit down and test it for a long period of time.

As for a tuner, I would love the 1080, but it is a little out of my budget right now. The other half doesn't even know this unit doesn't have a tuner...wait till I tell her, I can just hear it now..."WHAT THE HELL DO YOU MEAN THERE'S NO RADIO, YOU JUST SPENT $2000.00 ON THIS THING AND THERE'S NO RADIO? YOU'RE %$CKING UNBELIEVABLE!!!"...and so on.Posted Image You see, I am the type of person who wouldn't just settle for the cheaper tuner that doesn't match the 1066.

#6 of 1086 brian a

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Posted March 25 2002 - 02:09 PM

Would that mean that the full range signal is sent to the mains as as well as sending the signal below the lowpass to the sub?

#7 of 1086 Michael Mohrmann

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Posted March 25 2002 - 02:15 PM

"Would that mean that the full range signal is sent to the mains as as well as sending the signal below the lowpass to the sub?"

When running full-range mains and you get the option to send a signal to the subwoofer, usually the processor sends a full-range signal also. Maybe the 1066 allows the use of its' crossover for the sub in this situation, maybe not.

Michael

#8 of 1086 brian a

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Posted March 25 2002 - 02:18 PM

Sure, I understand that in normal operations, but I'm specifically asking about the analog pass through. It appears that it will send an analog signal straight through the unit, which appears to mean no bass management on that signal. At the same time it sends a copy of the signal to the DSP to do bass management and send info to the sub. At least that how I read it. If it's doing bass management in the analog realm, why send the signal to the DSP?

#9 of 1086 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted March 25 2002 - 02:49 PM

Quote:
The other half doesn't even know this unit doesn't have a tuner...wait till I tell her, I can just hear it now..
Posted Image Steven: I know exactly what you mean. This beta unit that I have doesn't have a usable tuner either and my wife complains every single day about it. I finally had to drag my daughters boom box downstairs to put on the bar so that my wife had a radio in our family room. Posted Image Not even close to a Magnum Dynalab. Posted Image

#10 of 1086 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted March 25 2002 - 03:03 PM

Quote:
If it's doing bass management in the analog realm, why send the signal to the DSP?
I always thought that an "analog bypass" circuit only passes it by the volume pot and that is all? If the signal is split and then half is sent through the vol pot while the other half is sent to the DSP for a crossover breakout of the Subwoofer signal, then I guess, that would be fine too as long as it doesn't degrade the pure analog signal. What bothers me about what we know so far, is that you apparently can't stop the 1066 from doing this even if you wanted. I guess it is just gonna have to be something else we are all gonna have to hear for ourselves before we can make a decision. Then again, if the signal is digitally processed, then the 1066 does not have analog bypass and all our discussion of analog bypass is restricted to the 5.1 inputs.

Anyone still have their 1066 that can test this for us and report back?


#11 of 1086 brian a

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Posted March 25 2002 - 03:06 PM

How could you test it?

#12 of 1086 Guest_Will_*

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Posted March 25 2002 - 03:07 PM

yep.

#13 of 1086 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted March 25 2002 - 03:13 PM

Quote:
How could you test it?
Brian: One way that you could test it would be to hook up your CD player to both the L/R 5.1 inputs and the CD inputs and then A/B them to see if either sounds better.

#14 of 1086 Steven Phipps

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Posted March 25 2002 - 11:15 PM

I will try and contact Mike for a definite answer today on the cd input question, and will get back to you all when I have a free minute.

#15 of 1086 David J L

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Posted March 26 2002 - 12:24 AM

I am waiting for delivery of a 1066. Is there any way to know whether it is a new "fixed" unit or an older stock unit (with hum potential) before I go through the labor of hooking it up?

#16 of 1086 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted March 26 2002 - 12:30 AM

Quote:
I am waiting for delivery of a 1066. Is there any way to know whether it is a new "fixed" unit or an older stock unit (with hum potential) before I go through the labor of hooking it up?
David: I don't know if the units will have any different designation on them, maybe someone can help with that? Pending that information though, I'd ask your dealer and then, if you still don't get an answer, just try the unit's 5.1 playback and listen for hopefully, no noise.

#17 of 1086 Mark C.

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Posted March 26 2002 - 01:05 AM

From what was in the e-mail, it appears they are unable to even confirm a consistent problem.

#18 of 1086 Steven Phipps

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Posted March 26 2002 - 03:49 AM

Nobody has this unit in stock right now, therefore, you can rest assured if you have one on preorder, you will be getting one with the "fix".

I also spoke to Mike about the lingering question of analog passthrough...the analog signal is split before the DAC to allow the signal to be sent true analog in 2 Channel mode. The only signal then passed through the DAC will be the sub, or if a DSP is being used. This goes for ALL analog inputs. The 5.1 input is not split like this.

#19 of 1086 BruceD

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Posted March 26 2002 - 07:10 AM

Steven,

This "parallel processing" sounds quite interesting.

So let me see if I understand correctly:

The 1066 analog input (stereo) destined for analog pass-thru is split at input with one path a complete full frequency signal through the 1066 volume control only, to the 1066 analog outputs. The second path is sent to an ADC stage and converted to digital, while in the digital domain bass management is applied, then only the low-pass digital bass signal is sent to the DAC stage, converted to an analog bass signal and that bass is available at the 1066 sub-out.

The above scenario is always on, and the recommended way to control analog pass-thru sub-out signals is to physically turn the sub amp's output control down/off, or use the 1066 sub level control, correct?

#20 of 1086 Guest_John Morris_*

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Posted March 26 2002 - 08:40 AM

You know, this splitting of the analog input sounds like a pretty good idea to me. There are alot of folks who use bookshelf speakers and having the option to use the subwoofer and still get a nice analog bypassed signal to your main speakers will afford them better sound. At the same time, those of us with big full range speakers lose nothing while also having the opportunity to use our subwoofer should we care to. I'm thinking that this may indeed be a pretty good feature for all pre-pro's to have.


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