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***Official Blu-Ray Discussion Thread***


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#1 of 158 OFFLINE   Robert Woods

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Posted March 12 2002 - 08:22 PM

I certainly can understand the Blue Laser development is also a software issue but I do wonder why 'Blue Laser' hardware related matters are not handled in a thread(s) on this forum?

There are a lot of things to be brought up that would not seem to be software related except of course hardware without software is irrelevant.

One area that certainly is a question mark (among a myriad of others) is how will this 'coming' affect the whole area of DVD recording - formats, commercial availability, etc.

It may well be that recording will only happen with 'red' technology - but it also may well be that few will invest the big bucks in recording DVD units that do not at least have the blue 'playing' feature - etc etc

Anyhow I hope that the administrators will allow some discussion to build up 'over here' - rather than directing everyone over to the Simpsons Posted Image

#2 of 158 OFFLINE   Michael Reuben

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Posted March 13 2002 - 01:56 AM

For a week or so after the press release about blue laser technology, new threads were popping up daily. They had to be consolidated somewhere, and Software was chosen because the discussions started there first.

Now that the initial furor has died down, I see no reason why we can't try a separate thread for hardware-specific discussion. So:

This thread is designated the Official Blu-Ray Discussion Thread. Thanks for your cooperation.

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#3 of 158 OFFLINE   Aaron E. Smith

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Posted March 13 2002 - 02:33 PM

About Blue Laser: I personally think that it will fall by the wayside for a few years or more. There are less costly alternatives, such as flourescent discs. Check out a little company called Constellation 3D (yes, I am an investor, but I'm not trying to push their stock, I just like their tech. quite a bit). It remains to be seen if an FMD will be the successor to the standard DVD, but I think it has a better shot than Blue Laser because FMD uses Red Laser to attain a significant leap in data storage capacity.
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#4 of 158 OFFLINE   Scott L

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Posted April 03 2002 - 11:38 AM

But if FMD uses red laser is the data-pipe still constrained to 9.6mb/sec as opposed to 36mb/sec with blue laser?

#5 of 158 OFFLINE   Martin Fontaine

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Posted April 03 2002 - 02:40 PM

Quote:
But if FMD uses red laser is the data-pipe still constrained to 9.6mb/sec as opposed to 36mb/sec with blue laser?
Doubt it, the laser type (Freq/color) only affects the size of the pits it can read, the data rate is determined by the speed at which the disk spins.
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#6 of 158 OFFLINE   Robert Woods

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Posted June 05 2002 - 07:51 PM

Anyone aware of new developments/rumors in this area?

#7 of 158 OFFLINE   JeffreyMercado

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Posted June 06 2002 - 09:25 AM

From the vibe I was getting from the HTS show in New York it seems next year we will hear some announcements. The zenith rep. said they have the technology, and that it would not take long to put one out. Beauracracy is whats holding this technology down. I am sure once everybody sees how well the dvhs will do they will jump to make the big bucks.

#8 of 158 OFFLINE   Thik Nongyow

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Posted September 02 2002 - 08:04 AM

A dumb question, or is it?

With the recent advocacy over blue laser for HD-DVD, why the laser had to be blue? Is it because the properties of this color can do wonders over red?

#9 of 158 OFFLINE   Jeff Kleist

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Posted September 02 2002 - 08:06 AM

It has to do with the wavelength of blue light vs red. Blue can be tuned a lot finer than red can, so it can be more exact

#10 of 158 OFFLINE   Brenton

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Posted September 02 2002 - 08:41 AM

Blue light has a higher frequency (smaller wavelengths) than red light, so the data can be written much smaller when a blue laser is to read it.

Think of it like the data is Braille, and blue has little fingers while red has big fingers. Red can't read the Braille because his fingers are too big and clumsy, while blue can read it just fine.

Speaking of which, wouldn't purple be the absolute best laser? Why don't they go with purple instead of blue?

#11 of 158 OFFLINE   DanielSmi

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Posted September 02 2002 - 09:43 AM

isn't purple a combination of blue and red, so wouldn't it be right in the middle?

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#12 of 158 OFFLINE   John Royster

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Posted September 02 2002 - 10:07 AM

ROYGBIV, violet having the shortest wavelength. Ultraviolet is next and so on up the range.

Might have to do with materials and current laser technology why blue was chosen over indigo or violet. Don't know the exact frequency they're using though.

snipet of EM range
Type Wavelength Range
Radio wavelength > 10-4 m = 0.1 mm
Infrared 700 nm < wavelength < 0.1 mm
Visible 400 nm < wavelength < 700 nm
Ultraviolet 20 nm < wavelength < 400 nm
X-rays 0.1 nm < wavelength < 20 nm
Gamma rays wavelength < 0.1 nm

visible is from 400 to 700 nanometers. pretty big swing in terms of wavelength.

#13 of 158 OFFLINE   Yee-Ming

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Posted September 02 2002 - 03:26 PM

Quote:
wouldn't purple be the absolute best laser?

hmmmm, explains why the ultimate bad-ass mutha of a Jedi, Mace Windu, has a purple lightsaber... Posted Image

but seriously, I recall that IBM made an electron microscope that used X-rays and could scan down to molecular levels. stands to reason that in future, this could be applied the same way as red lasers are now used in CDs and DVDs, and as blue lasers will be soon. although given that right now X-rays go right through most stuff, would these discs have to be lead-lined or something?

but can you imagine, the entire 7 seasons of ST:TNG on one single disc? and in HD-TV too.

#14 of 158 OFFLINE   Jagan Seshadri

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Posted September 02 2002 - 03:52 PM

To Daniel Smith,

Quote:
Isn't purple a combination of blue and red, so wouldn't it be right in the middle?

I believe (anyone correct me if I'm wrong) that the combination red and blue wavelengths is just processed by our brain to appear purple even though it is just red and blue presented very close together, whereas true purple light (i.e. from a prism)has its own wavelength that excites our eyes' red cones and blue cones in the same way as the red-blue combination does.

After all, don't pointillism paintings work this way to fool the brain into perceiving colors that aren't actually there? Where's that Seurat illustration I have...

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#15 of 158 OFFLINE   John Kotches

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Posted September 02 2002 - 04:28 PM

Well, there's two items at work here......

Absorptive coloration, vs. emittive coloration.

A painting is an absorptive coloration -- when something is red on a painting, it is red because it absorbs all other colors.

When you add blue to red, you get a combination absorptive effect which makes us see purple.

When dealing with emittive coloration, ie from a light source, then purple is merely "bluer than blue" so to speak.

Interestingly enough it was either Panasonic, Toshiba or Samsung which demonstrated a "frequency doubling" technique for semiconductor (diode) lasers. This would allow for relatively cheap blue lasers.

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#16 of 158 OFFLINE   Clinton McClure

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Posted September 02 2002 - 04:43 PM

although given that right now X-rays go right through most stuff, would these discs have to be lead-lined or something?


but can you imagine, the entire 7 seasons of ST:TNG on one single disc? and in HD-TV too.


Let's just hope it doesn't weigh 25lbs though. :wink:

Interestingly enough it was either Panasonic, Toshiba or Samsung which demonstrated a "frequency doubling" technique for semiconductor (diode) lasers. This would allow for relatively cheap blue lasers.


I think I remember reading something about this, although I do not remember which company did it.

#17 of 158 OFFLINE   Seth Paxton

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Posted September 02 2002 - 05:44 PM

Yes, the problem with just picking any color laser you need is the actual production of the laser light.

Semiconductor red diode lasers are cheap as hell, thus all the technology based off them.

The whole hold-up on blue is the "cheap" creation of the blue laser, cheap enough for consumer electronics.

Some semiconducting materials give off different types of light, just as various gasses also have their own "fingerprint" of light that can be emitted by ramming electrons through them (think neon lights). Different gasses in a tube like that can give different colors, but not all gasses are equally safe, nor equally cheap.

Regarding X-Ray reading and electron microscopes as well. At least in the case of electron scopes, the process of reading is also actually destructive of the material. Not good for repeat playback devices. Posted Image When the wavelengths get to be the size of the molecules involved you can start knocking them loose by blasting them with that wavelength of EM.

Also, you'd have to consider interference from other EM wave sources, both affecting you and you affecting them. Maybe even within the same chassis depending on what EM wavelength you used.


Also, a general explanation of the light coming from diodes and gasses has to do with their electron orbits. Bumping electrons up an orbit (in terms of energy level) will result in that same energy being emmitted (sometimes as light) when the electron falls back to it's natural orbit. Running electrons through the material bumps the orbiting electrons up (by adding energy). The physical structure of the electron orbits basically determines what light/energy is emmitted. Atomic electron orbits are discrete, or QUANTUM, in nature. They only change by exact steps. Like going from 1 to 5 without ever going to 2,3,4. The energy level is either A or B. So they emit energy of an amount B-A only. Since A and B differ for different atoms, you get different output (and most is not visible light).

It's a bit sloppy as an explanation, but good enough as a rough start. I'm just EE not a physics grad. Posted Image


(this is not to be confused with the effect off scattering/absorbing light that hits the molecule, which is what makes our sky blue for example)

#18 of 158 OFFLINE   Lee Petty

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Posted September 03 2002 - 08:20 AM

dread the day i need to wear a lead vest to watch a dvd.....
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see my dvd collection or my HT page

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#19 of 158 OFFLINE   Yee-Ming

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Posted September 03 2002 - 03:37 PM

whew! nice explanation Seth, brings back memories of A-level chemistry, which I aced but have absolutely no recollection of anymore...

Quote:
At least in the case of electron scopes, the process of reading is also actually destructive of the material. Not good for repeat playback devices.

not good for us consumers, but no doubt the studios would just LOVE such a device...

#20 of 158 OFFLINE   felix_suwarno

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Posted September 03 2002 - 03:46 PM

when are they going to mass produce dvd players with blue laser?


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