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Question for u SVS and samson experts...


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#1 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 07 2002 - 01:50 AM

I recently bought the 25-31cs and samson amp 700 through the group buy on HTS. I just read a post and had a question.
I have the yamaha rx-v596 amp, here is the post that I saw on HTS and had a question. It was a post regarding the sub and amp not sounding loud. I will paste it here:

--------------------------------------------
**POST**
I have the same sub/amp combo (16-46 CS+ with Samson S-1000). I found that I had to get the RCA mini-amp (SA-155) from Radio Shack to make the SV really shine. I have a Yamaha HTR-5150 (aka RX-V595A). The subwoofer output is 4.0V/1.2Kohms. There is an apparent resistance mismatch between the receiver and amp. Tom V. is having a "subsonic filter/level control box" built to his specs. These units should be available by the end of the month.
Without the mini-amp, the SV sounded okay (low frequency sound), but certainly didn't rock (very low output even with LFE level at max). My $200 Audiosource SW-15 sub outperformed it; output level-wise! . With the mini-amp, the SV rattles the room without effort.
When your problem gets worked out (and it will), you will be amazed (just like the rest of us!).
----------------------------------------------

This is my question. I have the similar amp to his. I have the RX-V596. My setup sounds good but I was wondering if it could sound better or louder. What is this RCA mini-amp(sa-155) and is this something I need to get? If I get my manual out for my receiver and see if my subwoofer output is the same as his do I need one of those devices?? What does it do to make the bass get louder or better sounding??? And also what is Tom's V. subsonic filter/level control box. And is something I need?? I feel like my system sounds good but I have a feeling it should be louder.

Thanks.
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup

#2 of 22 OFFLINE   JohnnyHK

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Posted March 07 2002 - 02:28 AM

We should start a FAQ on this stuff. As long as you can reach calibration levels without having to max out the subwoofer level in your receiver, you're fine. Have you done an SPL calibration?
John - My DVDs

#3 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 07 2002 - 02:49 AM

We should start a FAQ on this stuff. As long as you can reach calibration levels without having to max out the subwoofer level in your receiver, you're fine. Have you done an SPL calibration?

I have not done calibrations yet. I have a SPL meter but do not know what to do. I do not have avia or VE. ANd my samson amp is at full gain and my sw is also at full gain on my receiver. It sounds good but just wondering if its suppose to be louder that what it is since everything is up all the way.
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup

#4 of 22 OFFLINE   Rick Radford

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Posted March 07 2002 - 03:11 AM

Dean,

Either Avia or VE contains instructions for use of the RS spl meter with a calibration DVD. It's really quite simple and effective. They even show how to position and aim the meter along with meter settings. (I set mine on a camera tripod in my listening position and aim it up at a 45 degree angle)

Basically, use the 70 dB scale (slow, C weighting on the meter) with VE and run the speaker calibration tests. One method is to crank the Master Volume of the receiver until you see ~75dB on the meter and then adjust the individual channels on your receiver until you get 75 dB for each separate speaker.

Or use the 80 dB scale and do the same thing with Avia. The reason for the difference is that Avia/VE are recorded 10dB apart. Calibrate to 85 dB with Avia.

I have both calibration discs and like 'em both. Either will get the job done for you.
--RR

#5 of 22 OFFLINE   Steve_Ma

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Posted March 07 2002 - 03:16 AM

Here you go Dean. Quick and dirty calibration instruction using Avia/VE.

The second link is alittle more involved, but still good reading.

http://www.cheaphome...calibration.htm
http://www.smr-home-...-woofer-Set-Up/

Good Luck,
--Steve

#6 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 07 2002 - 03:23 AM

Thanks I think I will go ahead and order the avia dvd today. I wish what to do with the rca mini amp situation. Its only $59 and I might buy it and hook it up to see if there is a difference in sound. If not I can just take it back for a refund. I read on HTS that 2 people did this and fixed there svs sub and samson amp problem. They might it sound like it was a night and day difference.
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup

#7 of 22 OFFLINE   MarcVH

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Posted March 07 2002 - 04:51 AM

When you say it "sounds OK but might be louder" do you mean with everything (the knob on the amp, the subwoofer channel adjustment on the receiver) turned up as high as it can go?

Calibrating by ear is very imprecise; if you have an SPL you probably can at least do something with the receiver test tones, though the Avia should do better for you.

Most people don't listen to movies at full reference level, and so many like to run the sub a bit hot (I usually do 3-6 dB hot; 10 for demos given to non-audiophiles. Posted Image ) So you may decide that merely being able to calibrate, with no room to run a bit higher, is insufficient.

#8 of 22 OFFLINE   Larry_W

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Posted March 07 2002 - 04:56 AM

When I was reading about the CS+ and S1000 combo when it first came out, I started to worry about having the same problems with the low volume output and what not since I had a Denon receiver. Well, I got mine set up yesterday. Calibrated with the test tones from the receiver as best I could and I ended up having to drop the SW down to -2db. The S1000 is set at 0db which is wide open. It sounds great. I'll probably get a hold of Avia or something similar this weekend. I know my neighbors are going to hate me once I have this all set up properly.

#9 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 07 2002 - 05:04 AM

When you say it "sounds OK but might be louder" do you mean with everything (the knob on the amp, the subwoofer channel adjustment on the receiver) turned up as high as it can go?
--------------------------------

It does sound good and it does hit lows tremendously. The knob on the amp is turned up all the way. And the bass knob on my receiver doesnt do anything for the sub. I assume its for bass for my Frt,Ctr and Rr. I believe the bass within my amp menu is up all the way. The bass is big I was just wondering with one of those mini-amps will the bass get bigger. On my earlier post above a guy with a similiar amp as mine was having issue. And he got a mini-amp and it cleared it up as far as getting him more bass. I was wondering will this add bass everyone if they added it to their system. Everything on my amp and and reciever realting to bass is up all the way. I see that it isnt suppose to be. The sounds good where its at. That why I feel like it should be more. Since a bunch of you I see has it turned down.
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup

#10 of 22 OFFLINE   Steve Stogel

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Posted March 07 2002 - 06:04 AM

Dean, if you do want to try the RCA mini amp, do a search on eBay for "SA-155". That's where I got one. Don't bid over $30 or so. I bought mine from someone named Tabatha-something or other. She seems to sell quite a few of these, and her minimum is $25 (at least that's how high I had to bid to meet the reserve). Actual shipping was only $6, so I got mine for $31 total.

I'm not using it to boost the sub signal. I'm actually using it as basically a line level to speaker level converter. My sub amp only has speaker level in, so I use the mini amp to convert my sub out to a speaker level to go into my sub amp. Works great for me, but I wasn't having an impedance problem.

Steve

#11 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 07 2002 - 08:27 AM

someone explain to me how in the heck do u hook up this stupid mini stereo amplifier??? Whether if the power on the little rca box is on or off the I still here bass flowing to my sub. So whats the point of the power button if bass is still flowing??? I have it hooked up i think correctly and the bass is the same whether I turn the volume up or down on the rca amp. Someone who has it or seen it before tell me how th wires go. It sounds the same whether the box is in loop with my system or if i take it out. Maybe this means I never had a voltage problem with my receiver??? I dont know?
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup

#12 of 22 OFFLINE   Steve Stogel

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Posted March 07 2002 - 09:17 AM

Dean, I'm not sure how you have it hooked up or how you're supposed to hook it up. The way I'm using it, I've got the sub out from my receiver going into the left CD input and then the left speaker out going to my sub amp (speaker level). When going to the Samson, I'm not sure how you get it there. Someone using this fix will have to help you out. I do know, however, that if you can turn the power on the RCA amp on and off and there's no change in bass, something is most assuredly wrong. Sounds to me like perhaps your receiver is set to mains = large, sub = no. Make sure your settings are correct. If I turn the RCA "amp" off, the sub shuts down. This should be the case for you if you've got it hooked up correct, I believe. Check those receiver settings. I'm willing to bet you don't even need the RCA, that there's just something amiss in your settings.

Come to think of it, weren't those impedence problems (all 5-10 of them Posted Image) with the Samson 1000? I don't recall people having similar issues with the 700. So check your settings. And when your SVS really comes to life, you'll know it. I think perhaps it's sort of just getting some bleedthrough right now from your receiver. Do you have VE or Avia to run the calibration and see if the sub is actually getting a signal? If you've got either one or have access to one, try that. Betchya when it says it's giving you a sub signal you don't get a whole lot. Just my guesses, though. Good luck.

Steve

#13 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 07 2002 - 09:31 AM

I think I have it hooked up correctly. If I do wire it up another way I do not hear anything. But like I said what is weird is If the unit is powered OFF the bass still goes through. On or Off it doesnt matter, I hear sound. I turn the volume knob and the bass stays the same. Bass sounds ths same with the unit looped into my system or conpletely taken out. I do hear bass. A lot of it before I bought the unit. I was getting greedy and was wondering if it would give me more bass! Reason why is all of my gains and Subwoofer output and LFE's are set to their limits. Most people here I see has to turn down their gains on their receiver SW output and LFE's since they say they get too much bass. I get a lot of bass but all my stuff is maxed out thats why I thought maybe something was wrong??? I'm gonna buy the Avia disc tonight.
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup

#14 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 07 2002 - 09:38 AM

I got It!!!! I followed they way you did it STEVE and it works now, when I cut off the unit the bass shuts down, and when I turn the volume down on the rca amp it goes up and down too!! Dang! Loud ass hell. I need to turn down my sub within my reciever and turn down my lfe's now in my receiver!
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup

#15 of 22 OFFLINE   Greg Br

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Posted March 07 2002 - 09:38 AM

Steve,

I just received the S700 and I am having the same impedance problems that others have had, either that or my pro logic receiver is kicking the crap out of the samson and we all know thats not possible.

Greg

#16 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 07 2002 - 09:41 AM

I hear a slight HUMM now from the sub. It didnt do that when I didnt have the RCA amp plugged in??? The RCA must be causing the humm now!
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup

#17 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 07 2002 - 09:59 AM

how do I adjust how much bass goes in on the samson 700? Is the clip light not suppose to come on onto heavy scenes or is it ok? I dont know when to turn up or down the rca mini amp? When one adjust their receivers SW gains going into their samson when do u turn it up, until the clip light comes on?
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup

#18 of 22 OFFLINE   DwightK

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Posted March 07 2002 - 12:24 PM

Dean, from other posts I've read the humm will go away when you use a cheater plug for the amp. Something about ground loop doowatchysomethingorother.

I posted my experience with a passive sub/PA amp/yamaha receiver in the other, duplicate thread. Since I don't own a PA amp I am going the DIY plate amp route and building a cabinet.

Good Luck!

#19 of 22 OFFLINE   Steve Stogel

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Posted March 07 2002 - 04:08 PM

Glad the SA-155 helped out, Dean. As far as the humm, check the "bummer, I got a hummer" thread, and you should find your best solutions there.

Greg, sounds like a trip to eBay is in order for you. Like I said, about $30 bucks or so should get it delivered to you. Some people have a flat rate of $10 or more for shipping, but Tabatha..whatever, did actual shipping, and it was only $6. Her reserve was $25, so I got it for $31 instead of $65ish (after tax at RatShack).

Steve

#20 of 22 OFFLINE   DeanQ

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Posted March 08 2002 - 02:28 AM

Thanks guys Im gonna find that thread and see if I can get rid of the HUMMM!!
Mitsubishi WS-55857
Yamaha RX-V596
Sony DVP-NS700P DVD Player
Mirage Frx7,FrxC,FrxR Speakers
Samson 700 AmpSVS 25-31CSDish 501 PVR
Click here for my HDTV Xbox Setup




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