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Any news or reviews on H/K AVR8000 Flagship Receiver?


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41 replies to this topic

#1 of 42 OFFLINE   Greg Hamilton

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Posted March 04 2002 - 08:33 AM

I'd like to know more about this receiver and any issues that might have come up so far. Any opinions?

#2 of 42 OFFLINE   Wayne Ernst

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Posted March 04 2002 - 11:49 AM

I could only come up with the following:

Link to review
"My reality check ... just bounced"

#3 of 42 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted March 04 2002 - 12:10 PM

Wayne, HK receivers have been a day late and a dollar short in the last couple years. At the price point of the HK 8000 there are better choices. For example, the Pioneer Elite 49TX has room-speaker correction and 7 channels of amplification. The 49TX can be had for about $2,600, not much more than the HK (at least in the lower 48). Canada may be a different story.

In any case, the fact that HK gets very little attention on this forum should tell you something.

Oh yeah, if you really have your heart set on the HK 8000 be patient. The price on HK drops to about half within a year.

#4 of 42 OFFLINE   ColinM

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Posted March 04 2002 - 03:02 PM

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRip!

Posted Image
You call that a knife?

#5 of 42 OFFLINE   John A. Casler

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Posted March 04 2002 - 03:20 PM

Arthur,

You have to be joking? The Pioneer lists for $4200 and you say you can buy it for $2600. Then you say that in a short period the HK will be 1/2 price. Hmmmm

The HK is street available now for $1700. Probably couldn't find a good two channel amp for $900 anywhere. Especially for the "vaporware" currently available in 7.1.

No doubt the Pioneer is a great receiver and covers a lot of bases, but not everyone is interested in paying for the extra amps until the software is out there. Why not sink the quality into a good amp section you can use.

What's this Pioneer specs? (See below) Notice the surround channels have 9% distortion? Strange they put a zero in front of that 9 but forgot the decimal. That is not .09% but 9%. You can almost hear that. For that much money, I want all my amps to have at least one zero after that decimal.

And why rate at 6 ohms? Look all over the Harman site. They don't even know what 6 ohms looks like. If you want to talk power look at the amps. What other company publishes that?

The Pioneer rating shown doesn't even tell you the power with "ALL" 5 or 7 channels driven. Again Hmmmm.
==================== Pioneer Specs:
Stereo: 160 Watts per Channel (20 - 20 kHz @ 6 ohm, 0.09% THD)
Surround: 130W x 7 (20 Hz to 20kHz@ 8 ohm, 09% THD)
Surround: 160W x 7 (20 Hz to 20kHz@ 6 ohm, 09% THD)

http://www.pioneerel....,21018,00.html
=====================
So if we are talking street money, $2600 vs $1700, although the Pioneer is a great receiver and will light a lot of speakers up just fine. Give me a Harman Kardon and I'll see if anyone can tell the difference in a blind taste test. Chances are the Harman sounds better. But that is a subjective evaluation not "objective".

I don't think it is accurate to say, it is a "better" choice for everyone. It is just a choice.


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#6 of 42 OFFLINE   Brian O

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Posted March 04 2002 - 04:47 PM

Pioneer = Over-rated
HK = Under-rated

IMHO

#7 of 42 OFFLINE   ColinM

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Posted March 05 2002 - 12:10 AM

Ditto.
You call that a knife?

#8 of 42 OFFLINE   Greg Hamilton

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Posted March 05 2002 - 12:54 AM

Here in Canada the price difference is $1500. H/K 8000 MSRP $4000 & Pioneer VSX-49TX $5500.

BTW-I own an H/K 7000, and I've thoroughly enjoyed to date. -gh

#9 of 42 OFFLINE   Al_Reb

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Posted March 05 2002 - 03:45 AM

Hello all, this is my 1st post so I'll try to be breifPosted Image

As an owner of a Harman Kardon AVR 8000 and H/K PA 4000, I must say these pieces are truely amazing. But they may not be for every one. I'll start with the some of the negatives. IMHO

Cons.

The AVR 8000 & PA 4000 are huge and will not fit in a standard A/V rack. The 8000 is 7 5/8" high, 17 3/8" wide and 20 ½" deep + all the inter connects will need some room in the back of it. Roughly it barely fits (depth wise) on the Bell'O. Also weight may also be a problem, 53lbs. I had to call the Bell'O dealer to make sure the rack would hold it.

About it only having a 5ch amp, well I was bummed at 1st untill I got an explanation on why. Here is a http://www.audioimpo....y2001NewsL.htm link. This is for the 7500 & 8500 ero.models but it is relevant. Also the 8000 is ±85 amps, not ±45 amps.


Both the AVR-7500 and 8500 although being both 7.1 multi channel receiver, will only have 5 channels of amplification built-in. In order to get full 7.1 amplification a 2 channel amplifier, such as the new Harman/Kardon PA-2000 will be required.

The reason behind this is that it is physically impossible for fit an extra two Audiophile grade channels of amplification which produce a true minimum of 100w RMS each with 45 amperes of current in the same box as the AVR-7500 or 8500 without making these receivers' size totally impractical or compromising the quality of the amplification. Harman/Kardon felt that it would more convenient, as well as not to degrade the sound quality, for the additional channels required for 7.1 surround sound to be available separately.

Furthermore it allows those who want 7.1 technology, but who are not going to use it immediately, the cost saving of 2 channel amplification, which can be purchased at a later time.


Price may be a con but I got the 8000 for $1699.95Posted Image from a local dealer. So there were taxs but no shipping charges. For what you get with the 8000, IMO that's a steal price.

The 8000 is very power hungery, 694W maximun with 2 channels driven and will get warm, but not hot to the touch.

Last con, the 8000 does not up-convert S-Video to component, and only has 3 component inputs.

On to the pros...

High current, ±85 amps. I really needed this, because the longest surround speaker wire run is 53' and 2nd room run at 110'. Also my old Pioneer VSX-D508 could not handle the Infinity Studio Monitors 255s and would go into overload protection. The 8000 drivers these without breaking a sweat, 125w stereo. The thing I don't understand is, in stereo, the H/K is only 25w, 10w in surround, more than the Pioneer but you can't even be in the room if you trun up the H/K past 85% of max. Do these companies measure the same way?

EZset remote! This is a great feature, saves much time and agravation with delay setting the speakers.

OSD, On Screen Display, this is a god sent and makes adjusting the 8000 many features a snap.

Front optical/coaxial in and outs! And selectable front video and S-video to either in or out.

5ch and 7ch(+ amp) stereo. I didn't think I would use these but I find myself useing them more and more.

Oh I seam to be rambling, so much for being briefPosted Image If anyone wants or needs more info, just ask. I'll be glad to bend you ear.
jafo

#10 of 42 OFFLINE   ColinM

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Posted March 05 2002 - 04:03 AM

I see a used AVR8000 in my distant future...
You call that a knife?

#11 of 42 OFFLINE   Greg Hamilton

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Posted March 05 2002 - 04:27 AM

Al_Reb.. Have you played around with the multiroom/multisource (not just 2nd zone) aspects of the AVR8000 & PA4000? If I read into these products correctly they should marry together nicely to provide the above mentioned features along with the H/K keypads. Documentation isn't all that clear on the setup/hookup. I've asked my rep to look into this for me.. -gh

#12 of 42 OFFLINE   Al_Reb

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Posted March 05 2002 - 06:22 AM

Quote:
Have you played around with the multiroom/multisource (not just 2nd zone) aspects of the AVR8000 & PA4000? If I read into these products correctly they should marry together nicely to provide the above mentioned features along with the H/K keypads. Documentation isn't all that clear on the setup/hookup. I've asked my rep to look into this for me.. -gh


gh, I'm still waiting for the IR & Keypad for zone II. But I can, from the OSD, use the multiroom/souce for now. The 8000 & 4000 go nicely together, the PA 4000 can be a bit overwelming, and the owner's manual for it is a bit tricky...well for me anywayPosted Image

As far as hooking up the 4000 to the 8000 it's pretty stait forward. It's figuring out which configuration to use that's difficult. I'm using the 4000 in the 2 inputs/4 outputs configuration. There are 4 different configurations in all. The way I have it is 1 for the back surrounds (6.1/7.1) and the other for zone 2. I have it bridged for both outputs. For the 6.1/7.1 I have the 8000 surround back channel pre-outs to the main in of the 4000 and the multizone output of the 8000 to channel 3 input of the 4000.

Useing the OSD for mulitroom/source is ok, but the keypad and IR would make this much easyer. When the IR and keypad arive here and I spend more time with useing them, I'll post my findings. The good, bad and the ugly of it all.
jafo

#13 of 42 OFFLINE   Al_Reb

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Posted March 05 2002 - 08:01 AM

John Casler wrote:
Quote:
Pioneer Specs:
Stereo: 160 Watts per Channel (20 - 20 kHz @ 6 ohm, 0.09% THD)
Surround: 130W x 7 (20 Hz to 20kHz@ 8 ohm, 09% THD)
Surround: 160W x 7 (20 Hz to 20kHz@ 6 ohm, 09% THD)


For comparision sake, here are the H/K specs. These are from my manual, I think there is a pdf file on the H/K web site.

Stereo: 125 Watts per channel, 20Hz-20kHz @< 0.07% THD, both channels driven into 8 ohms

5 channel surround modes

Front L&R: 110 Watts per channel @<0.07% THD, 20Hz-20kHz into 8 ohms

center: 110 Watts @<0.07% THD, 20Hz-20kHz into 8 ohms

surround channels: 110 Watts per channel @<0.07% THD, 20Hz-20kHz into 8 ohms
jafo

#14 of 42 OFFLINE   John A. Casler

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Posted March 05 2002 - 08:50 AM

Don't you wish all manufacturers listed their numbers like that (8 ohms, 20-20K, all channels driven and the distortion)

Then we could make a good evaluation. The Pioneer is probably as powerful or close, but the distortion numbers for all but the front speakers are close to the distortion numbers for subwoofers.

In my audiophile days I needed to see .00X for distortion, but with home theater, especially the surrounds .0X is probably OK, and not noticable.

By the way, I like HK's explaination about the size being the limiting factor. Extra channels and larger power supplies take up a lot of space. I wonder what the truth is about these Onkyo and Denon units with 125 watts plus X 7?

JAC
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#15 of 42 OFFLINE   Al_Reb

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Posted March 05 2002 - 11:47 AM

John A. Casier wrote:

Quote:
Don't you wish all manufacturers listed
their numbers like that (8 ohms, 20-20K, all
channels driven and the distortion)

Then we could make a good evaluation.


Agreed, but then it would be too easy to compare apples to apples.Posted Image

Quote:
In my audiophile days I needed to see .00X for distortion, but with home theater, especially the surrounds .0X is probably OK, and not noticable.

I think .00X distortion would be hard to obtain with todays surround tech, though I could be wrong.

Quote:
By the way, I like HK's explaination about the size being the limiting factor. Extra channels and larger power supplies take up a lot of space. I wonder what the truth is about these Onkyo and Denon units with 125 watts plus X 7?

I don't want to start a war with Denon, Onkyo or any one with what they like. But it would be interesting to say the least. I did have a link to a story on why H/K picked the Cirrus Logic, Crystal but I can't seam to find it at the moment. There were lots of numbers that were way over my head to under stand but it was summed up rather nicely on the last page. If I find it I'll post it.

Oh, before I forget, Thanks to every one for making me feel welcome here.
jafo

#16 of 42 OFFLINE   Greg Hamilton

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Posted March 06 2002 - 12:36 AM

Here are the spec on the Crystal decoders used in the AVR8000.

http://www.crystal.c....etail.cfm?d=45

JMO - I never read into the numbers posted by manufacturers.

#17 of 42 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted March 06 2002 - 11:49 AM

Glad to see there are still a few HK supporters on this forum.

Greg, I took a quick glance over at audioreview.com
The first poster paid $700 for his HK 7000 at OneCall. That is what I mean about HK prices taking a nose dive.

HK's claim to fame these days is Logic 7. If Logic 7 really interests you, a used Lexicon D-1 and multi-channel amp might be a better way to go.

#18 of 42 OFFLINE   Kevin Alexander

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Posted March 06 2002 - 01:19 PM

Quote:
Wayne, HK receivers have been a day late and a dollar short in the last couple years. At the price point of the HK 8000 there are better choices. For example, the Pioneer Elite 49TX has room-speaker correction and 7 channels of amplification. The 49TX can be had for about $2,600, not much more than the HK (at least in the lower 48). Canada may be a different story.
This is hogwash! H/K makes some of the most awesome sounding gear availiable. Don't let the fact that H/K gets little traffic here at the HTF discourage you. HTF members are for the most part pro-Denon, and this is sad because H/K is often overlooked. Go and do a comparison of comparable H/K and Denon receivers, and you be the judge. Peace, out!
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#19 of 42 OFFLINE   John A. Casler

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Posted March 06 2002 - 01:38 PM

Arthur,

The AVR-7000 has been out for over two years. Are you saying you know of recievers this old that don't drop significantly in value when the next generation is introduced?

Just watch the price on your 49TX plummet when it's successor arrives. It has already dumped close to 50%. Nothing wrong with that. That is how it works.

And it is the Lexicon DC-1 not D-1. And the chip in the AVR-8000 is said to be superior. Technology generally moves forward.

Additionally why buy yesterdays (1997-98) technology for (they are selling for $1000, plus a 100 watt x 5 amp add another $800 - $1000) a total of over $2000 when you can get a fully warranteed, latest greatest, for $1500?

I don't know how much the Lexy listed for, but I heard it was $5000. Damn things just don't hold their value.

Must be a Harman Product.

Oh and their claim to fame is not Logic 7, it is their amps, as evidenced by comparing the numbers to some of the other "number pumpers" who must think we can all be fooled by putting zeros (09%) in front of non-decimal whole number distortion figures and then giving power ratings at 6 ohms. Why not rate at 2? That would be impressive.

Kind of like telling someone how many pennys you have in the bank.

Now that is funny on a $4000+ (now $2500 and falling) receiver.

John Casler
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#20 of 42 OFFLINE   Arthur S

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Posted March 06 2002 - 01:47 PM

Kevin

Welcome to the discussion. I can't quite remember, what did you end up buying a while ago when you were waiting for the HK 7000?


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