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D-VHS on the way? Studios pledge Support in Thursday's Conference


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#1 of 219 OFFLINE   Jeffrey Forner

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Posted January 29 2002 - 10:20 PM

Saw this reported over at DVD File.

Now, I've heard about this new format (supposedly a digital version of VHS tape), and I know that some studios like Fox had toyed with the idea, but it looks as if they're going to start pushing it come Thursday at a special conference. Four studios have pledged support of the new format, including Fox, Universal, DreamWorks and Artisan .

Sounds like... fun.
-J.Fo

#2 of 219 OFFLINE   Jeffrey Forner

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Posted January 29 2002 - 10:22 PM

Oh yeah, read about the new format at this article from Video Business.

With that, let the commotion begin!
-J.Fo

#3 of 219 OFFLINE   PhilipG

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Posted January 29 2002 - 11:59 PM

So I imagine everyone here would want a better picture/sound than DVD is capable of, BUT...

Who here wants to go back to tape = rewinding delays, non-durability, general bulkiness and no quick scene access????????????

Not me! Posted Image

As for recording - that's best done by hard disk recorders, IMHO. Actually, I've only needed to use my VCR once or twice since getting into DVD (almost 3 years ago).


#4 of 219 OFFLINE   Jerome Grate

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Posted January 30 2002 - 12:05 AM

For the right price, I would consider it. I'd pay between 600 to 1000 for a D-VHS and I would get pre-recorded HD movies with DD sound.
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#5 of 219 OFFLINE   Tom Rhea

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Posted January 30 2002 - 12:46 AM

For people who want to spend the bucks for this it sounds great. But no way is this going to go mass market so soon after DVD, just like DAT tanked after everybody had already replaced their LPs with CDs. That may be a good thing, though. If the philistines of the world ever succeed in banishing OAR from DVD completely, maybe this would be an alternative.
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#6 of 219 OFFLINE   Jerry Gracia

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Posted January 30 2002 - 12:51 AM

When are people gonna let "tape" go?
I do not have anything clever nor’ interesting to place in my signature box…so I’ll leave it blank.

#7 of 219 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted January 30 2002 - 12:54 AM

Consumer recordable HD-DVD is years away, and by that point D-VHS will be a fraction of the cost.

With a compatible HDTV settop box D-VHS is fantastic for the home theater buff who wants to record HD and buy a few movies as well.

I certainly wouldn't mind paying $1000 (probably $700 within a few months) for a deck and buying the occasional 'special event' movie while continuing to buy as many DVDs as I buy right now.

#8 of 219 OFFLINE   Jay E

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Posted January 30 2002 - 01:13 AM

As a movie lover first and a home theater lover second, this format means absolutely nothing to me.

I will never go back to tape!

#9 of 219 OFFLINE   Dan Ramer

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Posted January 30 2002 - 01:14 AM

Having watched over-the-air HDTV for quite some time, I can tell you that the format is wonderful; it certainly blows DVD resolution away. Films in 1080i30 (1920 by 1080 pixels) will be spectacular. And the likelihood of edge halos, so intrusive on most DVDs, is exceedingly small. Putting aside HD-DVD for the moment, let’s consider D-VHS an interim solution.

But I find this announcement to be disingenuous at best, contemptible at worst. I fear that early adopters are about to be screwed. The tape’s on-media encryption will probably only decode on a JVC product. So owners of Mitsubishi and Panasonic D-VHS machines - consumers who bought their equipment in good faith - will not be able to play these prerecorded D-VHS tapes. And if the tapes are recorded in the HS mode (28.2 Mbps), that too would eliminate Panasonic players, even if there weren’t any on-media encryption.

The $2000 JVC HM-DH30000 D-VHS deck does have a component video output, raising the hope that owners of existing HDTV displays will be able to interconnect without an i-Link (IEEE-1394 or Firewire) digital interface. What remains to be seen is whether a forced reduction of resolution on the analog video outputs will be imposed (as is part of a very different digital interface standard, DVI/HDCP). If that occurs, then over two million HDTV display owners - whose equipment only has component video or RGB-HV inputs - will also be out of luck.

Interestingly, there is general industry agreement that these draconian measures will only impede the consumer, not the professional pirate. Apparently, the illegal distribution of digital content over the Internet is one of the voiced concerns. But reports consistently describe such compressed movies as being less than VHS quality, so I don’t understand the threat. People satisfied with such recordings will also be satisfied with third generation bootleg tapes derived from handheld camcorders in the movie theater.

Considering that many movies only become profitable after home video and DVD release (quite the opposite of Mr. Valenti’s assertion years ago during the Betamax case that videotape will destroy the film industry), I find such digital encryption and forced incompatibility measures to be offensive, insensitive, and immoral.

I’m looking forward to learning more from reports of Thursday’s press conference. I’m not hopeful. Studio paranoia reigns.

#10 of 219 OFFLINE   Craig_T

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Posted January 30 2002 - 01:34 AM

So it's loaded with restrictions and Warner and Columbia are not interested in releasing films for it. Reminds me of a certain format that was a real smash hit a few years back.

#11 of 219 OFFLINE   Mark_Wilson

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Posted January 30 2002 - 01:37 AM

Perhaps if this format does fairly well then maybe we'll see an accelerated development of HD-DVD.

BTW, I've read posts of people picking up the JVC D-VHS machine for around $1200, but I have yet to find out where.

#12 of 219 OFFLINE   DarrenA

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Posted January 30 2002 - 01:41 AM

Heck I owned a darn JVC D-VHS machine back in 1998 and 1999. I'm surprised it took this long for them to finally release pre-recorded movies on this format. Besides, I wonder if the studios are really going to release these in a resolution higher than that of DVD?

BTW, it did a decent job of recording the streaming bits directly from Dish Network system (since the D-VHS unit was integrated with the satellite receiver), but playback could only occur through my unit only. And forget about fast forwarding or skipping commercials. Once you try to advance forward you get a blank screen until you press play again. Yuck!

DVD is the current equivilant of the CD. Everyone is comfortable with it and it has a very loyal fanbase. CDs are still with us two decades later even after failed attempts at bringing DAT and MD to market. DVD has saturated itself into the market early enough and fast enough that D-VHS has an uphill battle ahead.
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#13 of 219 OFFLINE   Scott Strang

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Posted January 30 2002 - 02:50 AM

What about unrecoverable errors from tape wear. Any tape will have dropouts. Some less severe than others but still there is no way around it. The error correction had better be extremely powerful to make this work.

#14 of 219 OFFLINE   Rob Scott

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Posted January 30 2002 - 03:17 AM

This sound intriguing, but I would only buy one if
  • the price was right
  • it has component outputs
  • it works with off-the-air signals
  • it works with digital satellite set-top boxes


#15 of 219 OFFLINE   John Knowles

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Posted January 30 2002 - 03:51 AM

As an owner of a HD-ready set, I would love to see films in HD, but I just can't stomach putting $$$ into yet another format, especially a tape-based system. I am only now starting to get rid of VHS in my home (as soon as recordable DVD drops a bit more in price, the rest of it will be gone). I will most likely wait it out until a HD DVD comes out.
So turn in your shoes...FOR INDUSTRY!!!

#16 of 219 OFFLINE   Troy LaMont

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Posted January 30 2002 - 03:57 AM

Interesting...

Rob,

Looks like you might be jumping the boat based on your D-VHS needs.
  • the price was right - Can be had for ~$1000 right now
  • it has component outputs - Yes
  • it works with off-the-air signals - Yes, but OTA HD has to be through firewire. There are set top boxes that do firewire out, compatibility - not sure.
  • it works with digital satellite set-top boxes - Yes again for HD it would have to be firewire, compatibility - not sure.
That's really just FYI.

There's also a Digital PVR in the works from JVC and Dish (and someone else) that does upwards of 18 hours of HD recording. ETA - soon.

AVS Forum has great threads on recording HD.

HD-DVD is apparently far off and I would venture to guess that recordable HD-DVD is even further off. Either way, I'm going with either an HD PVR or HD VHS as an interim solution for myself.

Troy
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#17 of 219 OFFLINE   Michael St. Clair

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Posted January 30 2002 - 04:30 AM

I think it is going to be longer than most people expect for HD-DVD.

Disc based media is starting to scare the hell out of studios and labels. CDs can be ripped with no quality loss, and now DVD can be ripped with no quality loss.

You can't stick a D-VHS tape in the computer, and the studios like that. Does it mean it cannot be hacked? No, it just makes it a bit harder than whatever encryption is already being used. But there is a stigma with disc based media at this point.

Anyhow, that's my speculation. Anyhow, recordable HD-DVD is likely to be REALLY expensive for at least a couple of years after introduction (likely several years from now).

#18 of 219 OFFLINE   george kaplan

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Posted January 30 2002 - 04:33 AM

I thought this would be a really stupid idea, but given that some here indicate they'd buy it, maybe the studios aren't too stupid for doing this.

Frankly, I would never buy such a tape just because the picture was higher quality than dvd. That will only be temporary. After the tape is played (some number of times), it will be of lower quality than dvd.

I use to buy regular tapes, and that's what first motivated me to move to lds, and I just can't imagine going back to a deteriorating medium (no matter how nice the first time you watch it).
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#19 of 219 OFFLINE   JonZ

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Posted January 30 2002 - 04:47 AM

Im not one of the guys "who doesnt use their VCR anymore" I use mine very often. I have lots of stuff on VHS that I dont have on DVD.But I agree this is gonna cause confusion. With the exception of deleted scenes and a "making of",DVD extras never meant much to me.SO thats not part of he picture for me.
I cant see this really taking off. I have mixed feelings about DVHS.
Theres alot of unanswered questions about DVHS: as wear and tear,deterioration of the tape and so forth.I wait on my judgement until we get more info, but it does seem like a step backwards.

#20 of 219 OFFLINE   Joshua Moran

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Posted January 30 2002 - 04:47 AM

HD is great. But there are not enough programs that are worth watching in HD for me to invest any kind of money in it. I have an 16x9 HD Ready TV and until there is more HD content then it will just be that HD Ready. All I use it for now is to play my DVD's in progressive scan Posted Image When more TV stations and movie studios support HD then I will. As for tape never again will I go back. Even if the J6P debunks widescreen DVD's I will just stop collecting until the next digital format. To me you can't have a digital format on an analog device and keep the same consistency/quality. Digital is Digital and Analog is Analog it can't be both. As for recording issues I'll wait for the HD-PVR if it ever happens.




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