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Pink Floyd The Wall - what's best sounding CD?


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#1 of 53 OFFLINE   Lee Scoggins

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Posted January 11 2002 - 01:14 AM

I want to purchase the best sounding CD of Pink Floyd The Wall. I just got the 1999 remaster from Columbia. Is this the best one?

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Lee
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#2 of 53 OFFLINE   Larry Geller

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Posted January 11 2002 - 02:17 AM

Stop right there, you have the best version!Posted Image
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#3 of 53 OFFLINE   RicP

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Posted January 11 2002 - 05:15 AM

Larry,

Sorry but that's not correct.

The best CD issue of "The Wall", as has been discussed here numerous times is the now long OOP MFSL Gold 2-CD set.

The soundstaging and quality of the dynamic range is superb. The new remaster sounds good, but falls short of the MoFi release.

Good Luck finding this one though, it's been OOP for over 10 years. EBay gets them occasionally with the usual going price of $120-180 depending on condition.

I have 9 different versions of this album on LP and CD, the MoFi Gold CD's are the best sound quality bar none.


#4 of 53 OFFLINE   Larry Geller

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Posted January 11 2002 - 06:20 AM

I have to disagree. I have listened to almost every PF CD since the 1st Dark Side cd came out in Japan in about 1985 or so & IMHO the only Mo-Fi that is still the best out there is Atom Heart Mother. The current Wall, Dark Side & Meddle discs are much more detailed than the gold discs. The AHM disc was mastered by Mo-Fi much later than the others, using their Gain II chain, which accounts for it's superiority. I cannot understand the continued infatuation with some older Mo-Fi & DCC discs that have since been re-mastered by the original record companies. In such cases, the new one is almost always superior--Ex: Elton John , Joe Jackson, Allman Brothers (except Brothers & Sisters), Steely Dan, Traffic, The Band, Creedence, Joni Mitchell, (I don't know about Blue), The Beach Boys (DCC's Endless Summer disc sounds like it was recorded in a phone booth compared to the same tracks on Capitol's new HDCD versions), & many others. In fact, it has been very rare for an older mastered gold disc to still better a recently remastered one (Ex: Brothers & Sisters, Crown Of Creation, Atom Heart Mother, all Cream except Wheels Of Fire).
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#5 of 53 OFFLINE   Greg_Y

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Posted January 11 2002 - 07:29 AM

Uh oh. After many months of authoritative posts about audiophile software, RicP has a challenger! Posted Image

#6 of 53 OFFLINE   Jeff_A

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Posted January 11 2002 - 07:37 AM

Quote:
Uh oh. After many months of authoritative posts about audiophile software, RicP has a challenger! Posted Image

A damn impressive one at that! This should be a very informative battle. Posted Image

#7 of 53 OFFLINE   RicP

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Posted January 11 2002 - 08:26 AM

Quote:
The current Wall, Dark Side & Meddle discs are much more detailed than the gold discs.
Explain "detailed". Detailed does not always mean better. And in the case of DSOTM, just plain incorrect. The original UltraDisc version of Dark Side, pressed in Japan is far ahead of the UltraDisc II version and the current remaster. In fact I'd even put the original U.K. Harvest release of DSOTM ahead of the current remaster in terms of quality.
Quote:
The AHM disc was mastered by Mo-Fi much later than the others, using their Gain II chain, which accounts for it's superiority.
ACK! Ok, well at least I know where you're coming from now. MoFi's UltraDisc II series paled in comparison to their original Ultradisc releases. The Gain II system was not the best invention, and while it did quiet the tape hiss and background noise, it also stripped the life out of the dynamic range. There is at least a 5db difference in Dynamic Range between the MoFi UDI and the UDII. Ask Around...especially on places like Audio Asylum and the DCC Forum, you'll find that the GAIN II process is pretty much reviled. The MoFi discs that continually get recommended are the first issue UltraDisc series that was pressed in Japan, not the later -- and poorer -- UltraDisc II versions pressed in the USA.

It's an easy comparison in terms of "The Wall", simply cue up "Hey You", or "Mother" very loud and listen to the subtleties missing from the remaster. Listen how the remaster never seems to vary in dynamic range from the soft passages to the loud ones, and how the MoFi UD accurately demonstrates the wide range that was on the disc and the original vinyl release.

Quote:
I cannot understand the continued infatuation with some older Mo-Fi & DCC discs that have since been re-mastered by the original record companies.
It has nothing to do with "infatuation", it has to do with having the best quality sound on the CD medium. MoFi was a specialty mastering label, just like DCC. They did ONE release at a time and devoted all of their energy and time to that ONE release until it was the best it could be. Do you honestly think that a rcord label is going to devote that kind of time and energy to every remaster? Not likely.

Quote:
In such cases, the new one is almost always superior--
Not necessarily. For every release that has been done better -- and there are a few, the Elton John discs in particular -- I can show you ones that still pale in comparison to the MoFi release.

Look at current releases like Muddy Waters "Folk Singer", they remastered that record yet again last year and just now got to the quality level that MoFi got to 5 years ago.

In the case of the Rush remasters...there are 1 or 2, "Moving Pictures" especially that I and many others feel still have not reached the level that MoFi's versions did.

MoFi's U2 "The Joshua Tree" is still miles ahead of the current offering by the label.

Did MoFi release some stinkers? Absolutely! BUt did they also release some gems? Some discs that still have yet to be surpassed? You bet.

Quote:
In fact, it has been very rare for an older mastered gold disc to still better a recently remastered one
Nobody said it wasn't rare. But in the case of 'The Wall' it's the truth. The new remaster has virtually no dynamic range, it's been compressed to death. It sounds much better than the original CD release, that's for sure, but as of yet, nothing has bested the MoFi in terms of range and soundstaging. If you like things loud and crisp (which I'm assuming because of your complimenting MoFi's GAINII process) then perhaps "The Wall" remaster is the better version for you. But as far as coming closest to the what I'm assuming is the band's intention, and certainly closer to the vinyl release...the MoFi Gold is a better release.

The only tracks I've heard from "The Wall" that are better then the original MoFi UD disc are the ones on "Echoes". And they've been completely remastered again! SO it only took them 12 years to reach the level that MoFi did with their "Wall" release...not bad. Posted Image


#8 of 53 OFFLINE   Brian Perry

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Posted January 11 2002 - 08:37 AM

I think the MoFi version of The Wall is the best.

#9 of 53 OFFLINE   Lee Scoggins

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Posted January 11 2002 - 09:03 AM

Thanks for the posts guys.

Good mention Ric P on the DSOTM Harvest pressing! Posted Image

It turns out I do have the OOP MoFi. It does slightly edge out the remaster I think. Still, I am surprised that the Columbia was as good as it was.

Lee
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#10 of 53 OFFLINE   Larry Geller

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Posted January 11 2002 - 09:31 AM

Don't get me wrong, I've been a MoFi fan since the very beginning (since Katy Lied vinyl in 1977-I think!), but MANY of their releases have been bettered in recent years (since 20 & 24 bit mastering has arrived)
Quote:
MoFi's U2 "The Joshua Tree" is still miles ahead of the current offering by the label.

Well, yeah, since it's never been remastered by Island---however comparing the same tracks on the Best Of CDis a fairer test.
Quote:
In the case of the Rush remasters...there are 1 or 2, "Moving Pictures" especially that I and many others feel still have not reached the level that MoFi's versions did.

Don't know---hate 'em
Quote:
Did MoFi release some stinkers? Absolutely! BUt did they also release some gems? Some discs that still have yet to be surpassed? You bet.

I agree, we just disagree on which ones the gems are. How do you explain Music From Big Pink, Days Of Future Passed, Aja, Gaucho, Live At The Fillmore East, Eat A Peach, Surfin' USA/Surfer Girl, Night And Day---all early MoFis that I thought sounded great when they came out, but were much better on their respective remasters? Or in DCC land-Wheels Of Fire (the ONLY Cream album where the new one is better to be fair), Court And Spark (new HDCD version kills it), all Creedence CDs.
I'll even grant you The Wall (cause it seems you've anylized it much more thoroughly than I did--It's not my fav PF album), but surely you think that the new Meddle beats MoFi's. It just seems that some people (especially on E-Bay revere ANY MoFi release, and it's not like I'm putting ALL MFSL Floyds down, because AHM is much better than Capitol's re-do. Anyway, to be continued, since I have to leave work now, which is where I do this! Besides, give me a break---I'm new here
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#11 of 53 OFFLINE   Jeff_A

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Posted January 11 2002 - 10:12 AM

Welcome to the forum, Larry. You have already met, RicP. He is the HTF intellectual lion, so to speak. Really not a bad guy once you get to know him. Intimidating? Certainly, but not a bad guy. Posted Image

I am learning quite a bit from this thread, BTW.

#12 of 53 OFFLINE   RicP

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Posted January 11 2002 - 10:18 AM

Larry,

We essentially agree so no sweat Posted Image

I'm not a blind MoFi devotee...that's for sure. I only want the best version of my favorite albums.

The early MoFi's that you mentioned have most likely indeed been surpassed by recent remasters -- although I can only speak for 2 from personal experience -- and that's great. I'm glad that the labels are going back and starting to do these things right. It's just funny that MoFi showed them what could be done with CD 10 years ago!!

On the whole, I'd say that 80-85% of MoFI's early catalog have been usurped by newer, better remasters. But those last 15-20% are precious and highly sought after because they still are the best versions of their respective albums.
Quote:
It just seems that some people (especially on E-Bay revere ANY MoFi
Absolutely! Some of the prices that EBayers pay for the name "MoFI" astounds me too!.

In fact I see them paying more for the UDII version of DSOTM than the much preferred UDI edition! Just goes to show you that you can sell anything over there. Posted Image

Anyway, welcome to the forum Larry, I'm looking forward to more input from a fellow audiophile. Posted Image

Jeff,
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#13 of 53 OFFLINE   EricK

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Posted January 11 2002 - 10:25 AM

I, too, am picking up a lot from this spirited discussion...thanks to RicP and Larry.

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#14 of 53 OFFLINE   KeithH

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Posted January 12 2002 - 01:39 AM

O.K., so we have observed something earth-shattering from this thread. Opinions vary! One person will say the MFSL version is better, while another will say the recent Columbia version is better. No big deal. I can't contribute much to this discussion, but I am entertained by it. I have the MFSL and recent Columbia versions of The Wall, but I haven't compared them in detail. I just don't take the time to compare different versions of CDs too often. I bought the Columbia remastered version simply because the MFSL discs are worth something and I don't want to abuse them. Both versions sound very good to me. By the way, I also have the original Columbia version of The Wall, and I can say that the remastered Columbia version is better.

Finally, the original MFSL version of Dark Side of the Moon is outstanding. Highly recommended. Posted Image
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#15 of 53 OFFLINE   MikeAW

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Posted January 12 2002 - 09:03 AM

Has anyone purchased the recent Japanese mini-lp issue ?

Please compare it to the burgeoning catalog, just of this one release.

#16 of 53 OFFLINE   Wayne Bundrick

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Posted January 12 2002 - 09:34 AM

The first Columbia CD of The Wall is just awful. The first note of Comfortably Numb has a very audible and annoying pop, there's no reason to even bother comparing that release to others. I don't have the Sony remaster, but I do have the MFSL gold CD which I bought on the day it was released in the early '90s.
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#17 of 53 OFFLINE   John Geelan

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Posted January 12 2002 - 12:25 PM

This reminds me of the crazy prices The Who: Who's Next is getting just beacause its a MOFI disc. Over $150 bucks if you want one unopened.
The funny thing is that many feel the Steve Hoffman mastered Canadian version is the best sounding disc. And that version sells for less than $10!

BTW, I do have a MOFI "The Wall" and I love it.

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#18 of 53 OFFLINE   Paul D Young

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Posted January 12 2002 - 01:10 PM

Quote:
The funny thing is that many feel the Steve Hoffman mastered Canadian version is the best sounding disc. And that version sells for less than $10!

Yes, I've been hearing about this version of Who's Next but where do I buy it and how do I know if I'm getting the right one? I really don't know.

(Sorry for changing the subject.) :b

#19 of 53 OFFLINE   RicP

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Posted January 12 2002 - 01:16 PM

Quote:
Yes, I've been hearing about this version of Who's Next but where do I buy it
Go to www.hmv.ca
Search for "Who's Next" and buy the one with the catalog number: MCABD37217

It's fabulous. Even better than the new remaster! Posted Image


#20 of 53 OFFLINE   Greg_Y

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Posted January 12 2002 - 01:18 PM

Thanks RicP, I've been wondering about that one too.


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