Is this really the best time to invest in Atmos technology? (1 Viewer)

No, it probably is not or I would have already.

Sam, do you have the same concerns I expressed? Any other concerns you have?

I am glad you are in agreement. You are ultimately saving me money at this time.

I'm interested in what's to be learned here, since I'm treading water on a big upgrade in the next 12 to 36 months. My view on Atmos is to do it when I upgrade. The additional speakers should be good for a decade and not obsoleted. The AVR is the risky purchase (as is any 4K display technology).

I think buying a non-flagship Atmos AVR is the way to go. This gets me in the fun, while leaving budget for a delta upgrade relatively soon when specs and features have stabilized. If I do an upgrade next year, I'll buy a mid-range Atmos receiver and suffer any pangs of subsequent refinements.

That's me. I'm going to pivot a bit and spend your money differently. For Mr. Epstein, movie and technology enthusiast, co-owner of HTF, and possible getter of good pricing, yes, you should buy the flagship AVR. You owe it to yourself and to us to send us postcards from the edge about life with Atmos on a receiver that represents standard features in the near future

As you're considering this, what are your thoughts on possible speakers for the upgrade?

Dave,


Your post made me laugh.


I already started a thread on in-ceiling speakers here


Still mulling all this over.


All I know is I watched Jurassic World 3D this morning, and thought to myself, "Wouldn't be cool if I was immersed with sound from overhead."


Most likely I will buy the speakers and have someone come in and install them.

I would wait until this time next year.

Well, if I were buying today, the probably cost is higher than I expected. I think I'd want the 5200, assuming a 9.2 receiver will do 5.4.1 Atmos. It's got all the other features I'd love, like AirPlay and network connectivity. It's $2000. (And then I saw that was an HTF contest prize.)

“Denon AVRX5200W 9.2 Network A/V Receiver with Wi-Fi & Bluetooth”
http://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/avreceiversht/avrx5200w

I also looked up the Pioneer SC-95, the latest HTF giveaway. That's a $1600 AVR.

So it looks more than $1500 to get in the Atmos game for me, unless I want to only do 5.2.1 with a 7.2 receiver.

I think Atmos and dts:X cry out for the pre-pro/separate amp solution, which makes them not particularly feasible for mainstream HT users. That being said, there's nothing I would love more than to build a dedicated HT room with Atmos and dts:X and more speakers than previously thought possible when we buy our first house. I can dream, right?

DaveF said:

Well, if I were buying today, the probably cost is higher than I expected. I think I'd want the 5200, assuming a 9.2 receiver will do 5.4.1 Atmos. It's got all the other features I'd love, like AirPlay and network connectivity. It's $2000. (And then I saw that was an HTF contest prize.)

“Denon AVRX5200W 9.2 Network A/V Receiver with Wi-Fi & Bluetooth”
http://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/avreceiversht/avrx5200w

I also looked up the Pioneer SC-95, the latest HTF giveaway. That's a $1600 AVR.

So it looks more than $1500 to get in the Atmos game for me, unless I want to only do 5.2.1 with a 7.2 receiver.

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I don't think it supports HDCP 2.2

I will be buying a NR646 sometime by my birthday(day after Christmas). It will go in the 2nd house's living room. I mapped it out. Small room...9x11 with 7' ceiling. KEF T all around. Looking at the smallest UHD OLED for the room. Seating distance...6 feet.

It will be a "stop gap". I still prefer Onkyo/Integra products...but they still haven't released anything beyond the Z900.

If by the Super Bowl, Onkyo still hasn't announced*(let alone released) anything...an A3050 will reside in my main theatre.

*Onkyo released "info" on upcoming 9 and 11 channel AVR back in June. Go back(through wholesale chain) to the "powers that be" and even they don't know where this product is. Possible Onkyo is waiting for DTS X to come along...or die. If that is their reason...I'm good with that.

If a receiver won't let me do both 7.1 and 4 Atmos speakers it really doesn't make sens for me to spend big bucks on it...

I decided to wait another year on Atmos. Going to let these formats sort themselves out for awhile --- especially with the DTS: X format on the way.

I've been mulling this around for a long time too. I have installed a fair number of ceiling speakers for Atmos for others, and I would say virtually all of them were a waste of money because the ceilings were too low (usually basement setups). People want "more", and we'll put them in. At least in basements it's easy to work on the ceilings, and it's also easy to change for the next thing (or mistakes). When you're dealing wih a non-basement room it's usually a lot more work if you want to make it look good (consider a shallow false ceiling if you've got >8').


I am really not interested in moving any of my 7.1 setup speakers to acomodate the Atmos location specs. It's all very carefully set up and the room is treated for all speakers, including ceiling. Maybe if there were a lot more Atmos (or DTS:X) movies that I actually care about beyond their sound format. So it would be a lot of work for me strictly on spec at this time.


You don't have to have ceiling speakers to use the "Atmos decoder" though, I hope that's clear, there are still other benefits and things won't be worse with just a regular 5.1/7.1 speaker setup as long as they're in the "normal" 5.1/7.1 locations.


That said, the Denon 7200 is a fine machine, about as good an AVR for this as there is now. I am more of a pre-pro type though, and the 7200 makes a decent pre-pro too, as does the 5200 for that matter (no DTS:X, but much cheaper/popular here). I've been waffling on the Marantz 7702(MkII) and 8802 pre-pros for so long, but the 4K/UHD/HDMI uncertainty plus the audio format stuff has kept me at bay. I like to see what sticks at my age, and what's just a marketing flavor. I'm very fussy about how everything is set up and when I get a new piece of audio gear it's not just remove/insert a piece in the rack, it's a lot of microphones and measuring tapes and instruments and other silliness, I can't help it... So there has to be an IMO worthwhile benefit to me, and only the individual can decide what they'll get from it.


Edit: Though it's a bit OT, I'm going to say what *I* really want from my next pre-pro/AVR-as-pre-pro. I want a high-rez room equalization system with some flexibility. Audyssey really needs a major update for the UHD age (everything gets converted to 48kHz now), and at least some options as to the frequency bands it processes (some might even prefer it just do subs). This alone would get me to jump on a new audio head even when I can't forsee what'll stick, because it would benefit all audio, not just mostly select titles at this point.

CraigF said:

You don't have to have ceiling speakers to use the "Atmos decoder" though, I hope that's clear, there are still other benefits and things won't be worse with just a regular 5.1/7.1 speaker setup as long as they're in the "normal" 5.1/7.1 locations.

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Craig: would you do me the favor of fleshing out what exactly you mean by that? What benefits would people see with an Atmos receiver and a 5.1/7.1 set-up? I thought all the glory of Atmos was dependent on the overhead speakers. Very curious about this.

Robert Crawford said:

I don't think it supports HDCP 2.2

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Ok. I wasn't looking at the new hardware.

The 6200 lists HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0a

Enjoy a striking surround sound audio experience with the Denon AVR-X6200W, which features Dolby Atmos and DTS:X surround decoding. Both Dolby Atmos and DTS:X feature object-based surround sound with the ability to drive overhead speakers to deliver the ultimate immersive 3D audio experience. With an advanced video processing and switching section, the AVR-6200W features full 4K Ultra HD connectivity, HDMI ver 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 compliance.

Click to expand...

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/avreceiversht/avrx6200w




When's the typical new-hardware time of year? If I were to do an upgrade next year, is the hardware out now the latest gear until next Fall? Or is there a refresh during the early Winter / Spring? I'm curious for both AVRs and Projectors.

Mike: I think the Atmos decoder works better at "distributing" the sound than the "fixed channeling" of the hard-wired channel decoders. You may get "a bit here and a bit there" rather than all of it "here" or all of it "there". Does that make sense? (Too many ""s ?)


To put it another way, the Atmos decoder determines where the sound is designed to be, it knows what you physically have, and it tries to match the reality and the sound design goal as best it can.


For one thing, and I was specifically talking about speakers in the "normal" 5.1/7.1 positions, not ones in the Atmos base locations but without the ceiling speakers, you will get an improved sense of overhead sound. I am pretty sure you'll easily notice the diff with any Atmos action movie, it's quite good, but some people have their back (7.1) speakers somewhat elevated and the diff is less pronounced in that case. Plus some people also have front elevation speakers already (not common IME, enthusiasts usually DIY so I wouldn't see it much).


So I'm a fan of the Atmos decoder/DSU in general. I *do* wish we could have both it and the old Pro Logic stuff as sometimes the PLIIx/z is desired, DSU doesn't seem to fully emulate or account for it, IMO a mistake. I don't see any reason why you couldn't have both, except that Dolby probably doesn't want/allow it. I am not a fan of the upfiring speakers, they may be better in smaller rooms with smooth ceilings (no experience with that).

Craig: Thanks very much for the response.


There are a couple of reasons this interests me. One of them is that I've been having a side conversation with Adam Gregorich about how--in my opinion--most of the discs I have with Atmos tracks sound spectacular. I figured the reason for that might range from my mind being tricked into thinking it sounds better by the Atmos-label on the disc to different audio mixes because of the Atmos technology to an improved sound field based on the Atmos mix (even on a 5.1 system).

Mike Frezon said:

Craig: Thanks very much for the response.


There are a couple of reasons this interests me. One of them is that I've been having a side conversation with Adam Gregorich about how--in my opinion--most of the discs I have with Atmos tracks sound spectacular. I figured the reason for that might range from my mind being tricked into thinking it sounds better by the Atmos-label on the disc to different audio mixes because of the Atmos technology to an improved sound field based on the Atmos mix (even on a 5.1 system).

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Mike-

It depends on if you have an Atmos equipped receiver. If you have an Atmos receiver with a 5.1 or 7.1 surround layout and no height channels, its going to do the best it can to place the objects in your 5 or 7 speakers. If you don't have an Atmos equipped receiver, it will just give you the TrueHD mix.

DaveF said:

Ok. I wasn't looking at the new hardware.

The 6200 lists HDCP 2.2 and HDMI 2.0a

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/avreceiversht/avrx6200w




When's the typical new-hardware time of year? If I were to do an upgrade next year, is the hardware out now the latest gear until next Fall? Or is there a refresh during the early Winter / Spring? I'm curious for both AVRs and Projectors.

Click to expand...

Speaking only for Denon and Marantz, but their "new" models are just coming out now. The 6200 is one of them. I am thinking about replacing my old 3808 with a Denon 4200, also a new model.

When I do upgrade which will probably be next year or shortly thereafter, I'm probably going to switch back from Onkyo to Denon.

Robert Crawford said:

When I do upgrade which will probably be next year or shortly thereafter, I'm probably going to switch back from Onkyo to Denon.

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I've been buying Onkyo for about 20 years now. But I'm tired of the clunking solenoids when switching audio formats. So I'll look at another brand my next go around.