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UHD UHD General Discussion Thread (1 Viewer)

Finn

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Hey guys. UHD is very new. There aren't even players in the market yet. I just wanted to say or clarify that we - 20th Century Fox - have committed to make available all our upcoming movies on Ultra HD w High Dynamic Range. Digitally and physically. We are just scratching the surface on catalog. It will depend on two main things: is the quality there to release these movies in UHD HDR and is the title going to warrant enough interest to garner shelf space and sales. Just being honest. I can't wait to see what ID4 looks like but haven't personally seen it yet.
 

RJ992

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Finn said:
Hey guys. UHD is very new. There aren't even players in the market yet. I just wanted to say or clarify that we - 20th Century Fox - have committed to make available all our upcoming movies on Ultra HD w High Dynamic Range. Digitally and physically. We are just scratching the surface on catalog. It will depend on two main things: is the quality there to release these movies in UHD HDR and is the title going to warrant enough interest to garner shelf space and sales. Just being honest. I can't wait to see what ID4 looks like but haven't personally seen it yet.

Makes perfect sense. Right now, there is no 4K (aside from the stray YouTube or maybe Amazon vid) , I never hear anyone (aside from AV forums) even remotely speak about or consider it. And with no players till 2016 (and even those priced at about $500), I don't see 4K demand being gangbusters. Right now, I look at 3D as a higher priority and I'd have probably asked why MAZE RUNNER: SCORCH TRIALS gets a 3D disc release overseas but not in the U.S.
 

Dave Moritz

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Will movies like the following be getting UHD releases at some point? And did Fox mention any catalog titles that will see UHD Blu-ray release?


The Seven Year Itch

The Innocents

Laura

My Darling Clementine

Broadcast News

A Tree Grows In Brooklyn

Next Stop Greenwich Village

Mrs Doubtfire
 

Dave Moritz

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I am all for new content getting UHD Blu-ray as it makes sense as they will be most likely shot in 4K. But IMHO older films should get UHD treatment as well since many of these films are getting archived in 4K. I hope that as many movies as possible are archived so that they are saved for future generations to watch. Sure I would like to see the movies I am interested in with 4K transfers but as many movies should be archived as possible weather or not I like them or others here might not like them. I feel it is important to make sure this art form survives.
 

Persianimmortal

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Whether a film gets archived in 4K has nothing to do with its release on UHD Blu-ray.


I think it's fairly clear from Mr Finn's comments that only classics which look substantially better in 4K+HDR and which will likely generate sufficient sales will get a UHD Blu-ray release - which basically means very few of them.
 

Dave Moritz

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IMHO once the content has been archived in 4K and the quality is there why wouldn't a studio offer the title in UHD? Sure they can wait for the next release cycle for that movie then they would be most likely doing a new bluray transfer from the 4K master anyway so why not release it in UHD? I do not agree that very few movies will be released in UHD as if studios are supporting the format they will want and need to get there titles out there eventually.
 

Worth

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Dave Moritz said:
IMHO once the content has been archived in 4K and the quality is there why wouldn't a studio offer the title in UHD?

Even with a fresh restoration, discs still have to be mastered and authored, cover art designed, the whole thing packaged and marketed and shipped off to retailers. Each of these steps incurs some expense. And with blu-ray catalogue titles struggling to sell 3000 copies, how many UHD discs can they reasonable expect to sell? Maybe 10% of blu-ray's total? I can't imagine there would be any profit in selling 300 discs.
 

Dave Moritz

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Even with a fresh restoration, discs still have to be mastered and authored, cover art designed, the whole thing packaged and marketed and shipped off to retailers.

No different than any other movie title out there IMHO even the new movies have this cost but some movies do not even earn what they cost to make. Most of the older movies have already made back there money so the cost of remastering them and getting them to market is not much different. And with the cost of many of these older movies being archived and restored only to be down converted to 1080p why not release them in a combo 1080p/uhd? I am sure IMHO studios that release movies in UHD will do so using combo packs. Older movies have a advantage in some cases that the movies are already made and are getting new 4K scans and a few have even received 8K scans/ masters. I am sure there are many low grade movies that may never see a 4K/UHD release on home video. But I see no reason why many of the very popular older titles can not end up on a UHD Blu-ray. I feel that people will come back to wanting quality and streaming and digital downloads will slow down. Not saying digital downloads will go away because they are here to stay but discs are not dead yet.
 

RMajidi

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Finn said:
Hey guys. UHD is very new. There aren't even players in the market yet. I just wanted to say or clarify that we - 20th Century Fox - have committed to make available all our upcoming movies on Ultra HD w High Dynamic Range. Digitally and physically. We are just scratching the surface on catalog. It will depend on two main things: is the quality there to release these movies in UHD HDR and is the title going to warrant enough interest to garner shelf space and sales. Just being honest. I can't wait to see what ID4 looks like but haven't personally seen it yet.
Mr Finn, your references to UHD triggered this tangential discussion, so I'd like to come back to your earlier post.

You said that the prospect of Fox issuing catalogue titles on UHD disc would depend on both quality and sales potential. On the latter, I'd like to throw something else into the mix, which I already tabled in an unrelated thread:

If some of my favourite (esp. large-format) Fox catalogue titles were to be released on physical UHD discs, then that would give me incentive to upgrade my HT equipment to the new format; and once upgraded, I'd buy new release movies on UHD disc too. However, I would not consider upgrading my setup just for new release films if there were no catalogue titles also available on that format.

In short, were Fox and other studios to commit some quality catalogue titles to UHD disc release, this could indirectly lead to increased sales of new release titles on UHD disc as a side-benefit.

So the question to Fox would be: Are enough consumers of a similar mindset to make this a factor worth considering?
 

Dave Moritz

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If some of my favourite (esp. large-format) Fox catalogue titles were to be released on physical UHD discs, then that would give me incentive to upgrade my HT equipment to the new format; and once upgraded, I'd buy new release movies on UHD disc too. However, I would not consider upgrading my setup just for new release films if there were no catalogue titles also available on that format.

I have already purchased my UHD TV and am just waiting for the UHD blu-ray titles to come out. I love the titles that Fox has announced but I want to see catalog titles as well. As long as the transfers are done right and we are offered lossless audio and the new Atmos and DTS X for new titles where it is available I for one will also be purchasing as many UHD titles as I can. Especially since my plans include upgrading to an 4k/UHD projector and a 120" projection screen. I am very much looking forward to many of the Fox titles I have seen 4K DCP screenings of and hoping to own them on UHD blu-ray someday.
 

RMajidi

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Ronald Epstein said:
Well said....and the absolute truth.

I am not going to sit here as someone who runs a forum and tell people that it's a waste of time to debate this issue further.

You are welcome to continue going back-and-forth as much as you like.

However, many of us are still acting "old school" to a changes that have been happening over the past few years.

Disc media may not be dead yet, but the young generation is not buying classics on Blu-ray or DVD. Streaming is the future, whether you like it or not. I love the post by someone in this thread (or another) that said his 2 year-old kid already knows how to work the streaming functions. That kid is the future and he has spoken.
Ron, yes the UHD back and forth has continued, but does it really belong to this thread?

I don't see anything of direct relevance to Fox coming out of this, and it has become another forest of repetition.

Can the posts here that are in no way related to Fox be moved to one of the several existing threads dedicated to UHD?

Mr Finn said that Fox has a committment towards 4K UHD - via both physical and online distribution. He also made it clear that catalogue titles will have more provisos attached, but that they too are under consideration. So why not just take him at his word on this?

Pointless speculation in either direction does little to add value to this thread and tends to obscure it instead. Afterall, this thread was about presenting questions to Fox. Mr Finn has posted on this thread on a few occasions, but as it now stands, he would have to be a very patient man to wade through these interminable UHD posts till he comes across something that he can actually respond to or investigate on our behalf.

[Edit: I should point out that I'm not pointing the finger at anyone here. I've also posted into this UHD discussion]

[Edit 2: To clear any arising confusion, this post, along with several others, were transferred here from the Fox thread (thanks Robert). The request in this post to move UHD posts to another thread obviously applied in the context of the original Fox thread and not here]
 

OliverK

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RMajidi said:
Ron, yes the UHD back and forth has continued, but does it really belong to this thread?

I don't see anything of direct relevance to Fox coming out of this, and it has become another forest of repetition.

Can the posts here that are in no way related to Fox be moved to one of the several existing threads dedicated to UHD?

Mr Finn said that Fox has a committment towards 4K UHD - via both physical and online distribution. He also made it clear that catalogue titles will have more provisos attached, but that they too are under consideration. So why not just take him at his word on this?

Pointless speculation in either direction does little to add value to this thread and tends to obscure it instead. Afterall, this thread was about presenting questions to Fox. Mr Finn has posted on this thread on a few occasions, but as it now stands, he would have to be a very patient man to wade through these interminable UHD posts till he comes across something that he can actually respond to or investigate on our behalf.

[Edit: I should point out that I'm not pointing the finger at anyone here. I've also posted into this UHD discussion]
UHD will never take off
catalog, with rare exceptions, doesn't sell
streaming will soon take over

It seems that at least one of these opinions is now expressed and debated in every second thread here without adding much to the original topic anymore. Most of us seem to like to discuss these matters and I am not excluding myself.

Or maybe I am reading the wrong threads :)

Kidding aside we have so many discussions about these three topics or at least it seems like it that they all should have their dedicated and preferably pinned threads as RMajidi is correct that these discussions tend to overwhelm other threads.
 

Worth

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Persianimmortal said:
...Thankfully we now have a solid set of third party licensees (TT, Criterion, Eureka, Arrow, Kino etc.), combined with a (barely) sufficient market base of catalog BD enthusiasts to see continued releases. But how long will that last, and again, doesn't it fall into the realm of fantasy to assume that third party licensees or kickstarter projects are going to work for an even more niche format like UHD Blu-ray?

The other problem is that UHD is simply going to cannibalize blu-ray sales, possibly to the point where neither format is going to be viable any longer.
 

Persianimmortal

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Worth said:
The other problem is that UHD is simply going to cannibalize blu-ray sales, possibly to the point where neither format is going to be viable any longer.
Good point - UHD BD is quite likely to fragment an already divided and dwindling disc market, rather than expanding it.

In any case Ramin's point is well taken. I'm one of the major culprits in pursuing UHD BD in several threads. To avoid derailing any more threads on the Blu-ray sub forum, may I suggest that we adopt one of Mr Finn's suggestions sooner than expected: the creation of a dedicated UHD Blu-ray sub forum here. We could then have a stickied "UHD BD General Discussion" thread there to continue these sort of debates, while leaving the Blu-ray sub forum in peace.
 

Robert Crawford

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Persianimmortal said:
Good point - UHD BD is quite likely to fragment an already divided and dwindling disc market, rather than expanding it.

In any case Ramin's point is well taken. I'm one of the major culprits in pursuing UHD BD in several threads. To avoid derailing any more threads on the Blu-ray sub forum, may I suggest that we adopt one of Mr Finn's suggestions sooner than expected: the creation of a dedicated UHD Blu-ray sub forum here. We could then have a stickied "UHD BD General Discussion" thread there to continue these sort of debates, while leaving the Blu-ray sub forum in peace.
Not yet.
 

OliverK

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Persianimmortal said:
Good point - UHD BD is quite likely to fragment an already divided and dwindling disc market, rather than expanding it.

In any case Ramin's point is well taken. I'm one of the major culprits in pursuing UHD BD in several threads. To avoid derailing any more threads on the Blu-ray sub forum, may I suggest that we adopt one of Mr Finn's suggestions sooner than expected: the creation of a dedicated UHD Blu-ray sub forum here. We could then have a stickied "UHD BD General Discussion" thread there to continue these sort of debates, while leaving the Blu-ray sub forum in peace.
Robert Crawford said:
I agree that it is too soon but a general stickied UHD discussion thread would be nice to have even here in the Blu-ray forum - UHD Blu-ray may not deserve its own forum yet but definitely its own thread.
 

TheSteig

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Ive spent / invested SO MUCH into my blu ray collection I really hate to have that feeling to buy the same titles again in UHD. No one is forcing me to, but that urge , that as a collector to want the best quality possible. I did upgrade my DVDs to blu rays not too terribly long ago and I cringe at the thought of doing that yet again lol


I really think there should be some kind of trade in program for those of us who bought the blu rays for titles that will get the UHD releases. Ive bought ID4 at least 3-4 times already.. It gets tiring after awhile, and redundant, especially now with labels such as Kino, Olive, Shout Factory, Twilight Time releasing movies in HD for the first time ever ( Scorpio, The Magnetic Monster, Without Warning, No Man's Woman,etc)
 

KeithDA

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I agree that UHD Blu Ray is going to have an uphill struggle when DVD is still the major physical platform bought by Joe Public. There needs to be a bigger incentive for people to choose to buy a better quality product than there is at present.


When UDH discs are available, having three formats out there on the shelf is yet another problem.... Do the home media companies want to keep all three formats going? Why don't they price UHD cheaper than current Blu Ray prices to force Joe Public to think again..?
 

Worth

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David Steigman said:
Ive spent / invested SO MUCH into my blu ray collection I really hate to have that feeling to buy the same titles again in UHD. No one is forcing me to, but that urge , that as a collector to want the best quality possible. I did upgrade my DVDs to blu rays not too terribly long ago and I cringe at the thought of doing that yet again lol.

It may not be too much of an issue. I think it's highly unlikely we'll see anything but the very top selling catalogue titles on UHD - Wizard of Oz, Gone with the Wind, Casablanca, Bond, Star Wars etc.


And while I understand the desire to have films on the best format possible, the fact remains that blu-ray already beats all but the most pristine 35mm prints in most respects, so I'm not in any major rush to buy into UHD.
 

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