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Using a 55" 4k UHD Television as display with Retina iMac/Macbook Pro? (1 Viewer)

Ronald Epstein

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I love my 27" 5k Retina iMac​
However, I never felt 27" was big enough.​
Currently, I am running two 27" displays. One is the Retina iMac. The other is the standard 27" Apple Cinema Display.​
It's okay for its purpose. I hate the fact that windows never open in the correct monitor as they should when rebooting.​
So, I talked with HTF co-owner Dave Upton who got a 65" Samsung JU7500 display to test out. He used it with his Mac as a display, and thought it was really cool. Only problem is, a bit too massive for the task. Certainly, too tall.​
He thought the 55" Samsung JU7500 would be better.​
I like the fact I would have one massive display to run all my windows at once and even watch a Blu-ray in the corner of the screen if I chose to.​
Of course, I would have to throw my 27" Retina iMac on the floor and run it dark as it will only be a power/PC source to the display.​
Here is the biggest problem I see....​
At the moment, I don't think the Samsung UHD display will do 4k@60hz through HDMI.​
Now, allegedly, there is a new adapter available now, or at year's end that will allow this kind of playback.​
Just wondering what everyone thought of what I am attempting to do.​
 

DaveF

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Depends.
The 5k iMac has higher resolution than the 4K HDTV. So it can show more Windows on screen than Samsung tv. But, the iMac default display mode is retina, which gives a very detailed 2.5k type display, limiting how much screen real estate you have.

If you are comparing the lower resolution 4K tv in native mode the 5k iMac in retina mode, the tv will have more, lower quality real estate. But if you're viewing it from ten feet away, maybe you can't tell the difference.

You could try running the iMac in native mode, and have full 5k real estate. But that might be too small to be comfortable for you.

In the short term, play with the screen resolutions on the iMac and see if here's a happy medium that solve your problem.

(I don't know if the HDTV is even possible of being used as a 4k monitor)
 

Ronald Epstein

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Out here in Los Angeles with Dave. He tested the display with his Mac.


So, I will try to find out if this will work.


If I can use the HDTV as a 4k monitor --- though it will not be 5k -- I should still gain quite a bit of real estate, yes?
 

Robert Crawford

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Ronald Epstein said:
Out here in Los Angeles with Dave. He tested the display with his Mac.


So, I will try to find out if this will work.


If I can use the HDTV as a 4k monitor --- though it will not be 5k -- I should still gain quite a bit of real estate, yes?
None of my business, but why would you need so much real estate? That's a lot of money spent on essentially a monitor for your computer needs.
 

Ronald Epstein

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It's okay to ask.


I kind of explained it already...


I am using two 27" monitors right now. One is 5k (the iMac) and the other is just a standard Apple Display.


I would like to consolidate both monitors into one single monitor.


No, it would not be 5k, but I understand the difference on a 4k would be quite negligible.


Imagine having one massive display where I could have multiple windows open, at fairly full capacity, at all times without having to use a 3-finger swipe to switch between them.


People are doing this with 55" and 65" monitors.


Right now the limiting factor is 60hz. I am trying to figure out how to get the Samsung to display at that resolution before I buy it.
 

DaveF

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Ronald Epstein said:
...

If I can use the HDTV as a 4k monitor --- though it will not be 5k -- I should still gain quite a bit of real estate, yes?
There isn't a simple answer. You have to try the options and decide for yourself. Because it depends on your preferences and how you experience display 'real estate'.



Here's why:


27" Retina iMac: 5120 x 2880 pixels (~14 MP) (native, full res)

27" Retina iMac: 2560 x 1440 pixels (~3.5MP) (retain mode)

Samsung 4k TV: 3840 x 2160 pixels (~8 MP)


The iMac running at native resolution has 75% more pixels than the Samsung TV, so it has much more real estate. But that's on a 27" screen, maybe 18" from your eyes. That's too small for most people (it's really a young man's game), but maybe it's what you want. You're a power user, versus a normal computer user.


Or, using the iMac in its "Retina" mode, it's using 2x2 native pixels for each 'retina' pixel. So it would effectively have about half the real estate of a 4k TV, but text and retina graphics will look...well you know... gorgeously retina-isa, as if printed.


The 4k HDTV at 10 feet away, as noted, has far fewer pixels. But so far away, even at 50"-60" diagonal it may be more comfortable and feel more spacious to you.


So, it depends on your tastes :)
 

Ronald Epstein

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Dave,


Greatly appreciate your advice and links.


The new display is on its way. This is all a gamble (an expensive one at that) and I will let you know once I have it set up.


A shame to take a 5k iMac and basically turn it off to run everything on a 4k UHD display -- but I still might be happier in the long run.
 

DaveF

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Well, you could consider selling it and buying a MacPro. Crank up the horsepower, if you're using an external monitor.

The Mini should be your option, but Apple nerfed it.

So the retina Mac is Apple's top consumer performer, even if you don't want its display.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Yeah...


In another two years I may have to go to the Mac Pro line.


In the meantime, I'll run everything off the iMac with the display turned off.
 

DaveF

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If you setup a 4k curved TV as your main monitor, I hope you can post a photo or two of the setup. I'm curious how a ~60" TV is physically integrated into an office setup for professional, desktop work.
 

Ronald Epstein

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Thought I would provide an update on how this is going and perhaps get some advice.

My 27-inch Retina iMac is now on the floor and this Samsung 55" 4k display is hooked up to it as an external monitor.

While I am absolutely happy with the results, I can't say this is an entirely rewarding experience. There is a lot of things I need to do every time I boot up my iMac to get this setup to work properly.

To begin with, the best results size-wise that I was able to figure out was running the display in 3840x2160 30Hz.

Not certain this is optimal. All the 60Hz options were way too big (960x540). All the HD options were too small.

At this resolution, the picture looks a little fuzzy (as it is blown up obviously), but not bad at all.

The problem is getting set up. Every time I boot my computer I have to go through a ritual of turning things on and off before I can start my browsing experience.

1. Boot computer from the back of the iMac
2. Even though I have display setup as "Mirror", the login screen often only comes up on my iMac. So I actually have to go the iMac and log into my computer.
2. I then have to use a program called disable monitor to turn the iMac screen off.
3. I then have to set the resolution manually to 3840x2160 using a program called SwitchResX

If I am lucky, SwitchResX usually defaults to the last resolution I used, so I don't always have to go to that third step.


So, it's a process every time I turn on my iMac to use the 55" display. It's not a simple "boot up and ready to go" process.

I am hoping to get in touch with others using a monitor with their iMac to find out if there is a better resolution I could use and less steps I have to go through to get things to work.

I do hear there is an adapter due at the end of this year that will enable the iMac to push 60Hz in more resolutions. That should significantly sharpen the resolution on the 55" display.

Overall, I am quite happy with the results I have for now. Just not fond of the multiple steps to get there.
 

Sam Posten

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I've held off on replying to this because I didn't want to discourage you Ron, although I should have remembered that doing so never works anyway =)

My opinion would be that this isn't going to be a workable solution and I wouldn't have tried it with anything bigger than a 40" and definitely wouldnt have gone with a curved screen, but now that it's done I'm interested in how you like it.

What makes you think that moving from 30hz to 60hz is going to make this any less 'fuzzy'? You might get a few less tears from fast movement but you are still going to be working at the same resolution. Your belief doesn't make sense to me from a technological perspective. You aren't blowing anything up, you are working at the native resolution of the panel, if not the native refresh.
 

Ronald Epstein

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How I like it? I really love it. The curved screen makes it even more immersive. No complaints whatsoever.


Maybe I have misunderstood, but at the moment, the iMac will not push 60Hz. However (and again I may have misunderstood), the resolutions obtained with the 60Hz setting are supposed to be better. Am I incorrect about that?


I do know from all the research I have done, everyone who is posting about using an external monitor are waiting for a means to get to 60Hz for optimal performance.
 

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Nope, you will have exactly the same resolution at 30 and 60 hz. If it's fuzzy at 30 it will be fuzzy at 60.

I'm not sure if external displays allow different scale factors, that might be your issue, you have to choose one right for that display in order to see how dense your icons and stuff show.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202471
 

DaveF

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The reboot issue shouldn't be a big deal; my experience is a Mac only needs rebooting every month or three. (Unless you're powering off daily...?)

As for fuzziness: it's not refresh rate. You might perceive the 30Hz flicker -- like a fluorescent bulb. But it won't make the image any more or less crisp.

It's because you're using "Mirror" mode. The iMac is doing its upscale/rescale for its native screen and mirroring that to the 4K tv. This image would look fuzzy on the iMac, if you could get close enough to see it on a 27" screen. But on a 55", it's blown up enough to be perceptible.
 

Robert Crawford

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DaveF said:
The reboot issue shouldn't be a big deal; my experience is a Mac only needs rebooting every month or three. (Unless you're powering off daily...?)

As for fuzziness: it's not refresh rate. You might perceive the 30Hz flicker -- like a fluorescent bulb. But it won't make the image any more or less crisp.

It's because you're using "Mirror" mode. The iMac is doing its upscale/rescale for its native screen and mirroring that to the 4K tv. This image would look fuzzy on the iMac, if you could get close enough to see it on a 27" screen. But on a 55", it's blown up enough to be perceptible.
Yup, I think the bigger screen works against you in that regard.
 

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Ronald Epstein said:
My 27-inch Retina iMac is now on the floor and this Samsung 55" 4k display is hooked up to it as an external monitor.

To begin with, the best results size-wise that I was able to figure out was running the display in 3840x2160 30Hz.

At this resolution, the picture looks a little fuzzy (as it is blown up obviously), but not bad at all.

I do hear there is an adapter due at the end of this year that will enable the iMac to push 60Hz in more resolutions. That should significantly sharpen the resolution on the 55" display.

Overall, I am quite happy with the results I have for now. Just not fond of the multiple steps to get there.

What you're doing here (running a 55" monitor at UHDTV resolution (3840x2160 pixels), without any Retina scaling) is similar to taking four 27" 1920x1080 pixel monitors, and stacking them in a 2x2 grid. You're getting plenty of workspace (3840x2160 pixels), but pixel-per-inch resolution isn't as high as that of a standard 27", 2560x1440 pixel monitor; let alone that of a 5K Retina iMac display running in Best mode.


Increasing the refresh rate from 30 Hz to 60 Hz might help with visible flicker (if you are seeing any), but it won't help with resolution. That's all about the physical monitor size, the physical LCD pixel count, and the way you choose to trade off the pixels in terms of workspace vs. detail.


I believe that the 5K Retina iMac will let you set a scaled (simulated) resolution as high as 3200x1800 pixels. Text in this mode would be smaller than it is in Best mode, and a lot smaller than it is on your 55" UHDTV monitor, but it would be another way to get a large workspace.
 

Thomas Newton

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1. Boot computer from the back of the iMac​
2. Even though I have display setup as "Mirror", the login screen often only comes up on my iMac. So I actually have to go the iMac and log into my computer.
2. I then have to use a program called disable monitor to turn the iMac screen off.
3. I then have to set the resolution manually to 3840x2160 using a program called SwitchResX

If I am lucky, SwitchResX usually defaults to the last resolution I used, so I don't always have to go to that third step.



I'm not sure I understand the reason for this procedure. Why not configure the monitors in extended desktop mode, designate the UHDTV as the primary monitor (if El Capitan still has that concept), and set each to its optimal resolution (e.g., "Best", 3840x2160)?
 

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