What's new

Replacing Receiver - Can't decide which model! (1 Viewer)

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
I'm replacing my receiver which recently stopped outputting audio. It was a Denon 1712 and only lasted three years. I'm very disappointed since I had had a Denon before the 1712 and it worked brilliantly when I sold it to upgrade to the 1712. Right now my choices are:

Marantz NR1506


Yamaha RX-A550


Pioneer VSX-45


I am powering BIC Venturi DV 64 towers, DV62CLR-S center, D62-3LCR surrounds for a 5.2 setup with BIC F12's. My concern with the Marantz is if the wattage will be enough. I've never owned receivers from any of these brands. I did not care much for how Audyssey worked on the 1712 and mainly just used it for getting distances and levels. I'm mostly concerned purely with sound quality and durability. All of the wi-fi, and streaming music options don't really matter to me. I take very good care of my electronics so I'm hopeful that any of these choices will last at least 8-10 years. Which would you choose?
 

schan1269

HTF Expert
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
17,104
Location
Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
Real Name
Sam
Denon and Marantz are the same company. Some Marantz AVR the last 4 years have been a "Denon in a tux". Although the NR are Marantz exclusive.

I would stay away from any "single crossover point" AVR, but that is just me. The Yamaha and Pio are both single point.

Onkyo?

Wattage is almost meaningless once you are above 50watts. No AVR is really X by 5(7/9/11). Ratings are based on 2 channels...not all of them. Besides...50 watts vs 100 is only a 3db difference. So a 75 vs 90 watt AVR is insignificant.
 

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
schan1269 said:
Denon and Marantz are the same company. Some Marantz AVR the last 4 years have been a "Denon in a tux". Although the NR are Marantz exclusive.

I would stay away from any "single crossover point" AVR, but that is just me. The Yamaha and Pio are both single point.

Onkyo?

Wattage is almost meaningless once you are above 50watts. No AVR is really X by 5(7/9/11). Ratings are based on 2 channels...not all of them. Besides...50 watts vs 100 is only a 3db difference. So a 75 vs 90 watt AVR is insignificant.

I've heard many bad things about Onkyo and don't feel like testing the waters with them. I feel comfortable with the other brands. It sounds like the Marantz is the best option for me. What is the main difference between the "single point" crossover and multi-point?
 

schan1269

HTF Expert
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
17,104
Location
Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
Real Name
Sam
You have tower speakers and small center/surround.

You can set separate crossover front(possibly 40, likely 60), center/surround(60 maybe and 80) and subwoofer(80, maybe 100/120)

Instead of 1 blanket crossover.
 

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
schan1269 said:
You have tower speakers and small center/surround.

You can set separate crossover front(possibly 40, likely 60), center/surround(60 maybe and 80) and subwoofer(80, maybe 100/120)

Instead of 1 blanket crossover.

Oh, okay. Sorry, I misunderstood. I've always read that it's easier on the receiver and optimal to just use a single crossover point anyway. All of my speakers when I used Audyssey on the 1712 came in at 80hz or below anyway. I changed it to 80hz across the board and thought it sounded better.
 

schan1269

HTF Expert
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
17,104
Location
Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
Real Name
Sam
"Easier on the receiver" is a much ballyhooed reason to be "beholden to THX guidelines".

I care not one bit for THX guidelines.

I follow the originating ITU standard enacted for DVD-A and Dolby Digital(back when it was called AC3). The ITU standard dictates, essentially, all speakers are to be used at their full capability.
 

schan1269

HTF Expert
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
17,104
Location
Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
Real Name
Sam
By the way...

You hear(and while it is true...) all the time that bass takes an enormous amount of power...

Not exactly. Bass when curtailed above F3(your speakers have a -3 rating of 40-ish...not looking it up for precise figure), it takes twice as much power to do 40Hz...than 100Hz. So what.

DSP in subwoofers overcomes the F10. F10 is -10. That means a subwoofer DSP setting a "flat response" 20Hz to 100Hz is overcoming a 10db loss to create "flat".

No, not every sub is created equal. Some are made where the non-DSP response is -6 at 20Hz. So the DSP only has to cover 6db, not 10.

So, if a speaker produces 40Hz at -3 and 25Hz at -10...

From say...100Hz down(assuming 100Hz is 0)

100Hz to say 90db...takes 1 watt.
45Hz takes 2.
25Hz would take 10.*

100Hz at 100db takes 10.
45Hz takes 20.
25Hz takes 100.*

*assuming you put in a 10db spike to get "25Hz to flat".
 

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
But below 80hz a subwoofer is going to do a better job in that range, especially for movies. That's what I've always heard and that's been my experience. I appreciate the explanation though.
 

schan1269

HTF Expert
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
17,104
Location
Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
Real Name
Sam
But...

Not every speaker, made "full range" is made equal.

Your DV64 play very well to 60(yes, they do). The 84 variant plays to a useful 30Hz.

My experience is...if the director of the movie wanted a "thump" to originate left of screen...why not let your speakers reproduce that thump if they are capable of doing so?

As an experiment sometime, change out a DV64 to the rear channel. Set the crossover as a compromise(so the smaller speaker isn't completely overwhelmed).

Spin...

The Guillotines(the absolute benchmark on why you should buy speakers capable of
 

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
I will have to play around when I get the new receiver. That's half the fun of this hobby. :)

So if you had only $500 to spend and these were your choices, you would go with the Marantz?
 

schan1269

HTF Expert
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
17,104
Location
Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
Real Name
Sam
First, since you don't mention 4K...

I'd hit up Accessories4less and see what they got. If you can snag a Marantz 500X for $500...

Speaking of which...

Denon 3311 for $380(if not "too old")
5008/6006 both at $450.
7005(if not too old) and 6008 at $550.

(once 4K gets, umm...widespread, pre-HDCP 2.2 AVR are going to flood the refurb/used market and plummet in price...)
 

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
You mean the 5009?


I don't have a 4k TV and don't have any intention until my 2014 Samsung plasma dies which hopefully will be years from now. I just figure that if it does and I get a 4k TV I'd be ready to go.
 

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
Looking at the 5009, it will pass through 4k should I need it, so that's now an option.


So many choices...


Is AFL pretty reputable?
 

schan1269

HTF Expert
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
17,104
Location
Chicago-ish/NW Indiana
Real Name
Sam
Yes A4L is reputable(we have numerous threads mentioning them).

I've noticed pricing(including NewEgg and TigerDirect etc) on refurbs has dropped lately.

Once Onkyo(and Integra) gets on the ball with 2015...should end up a banner year.

Lack of HDCP is leaving 2014 AVR gathering dust on their boxes...

The 5009 is 2014...
 

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
schan1269 said:
Yes A4L is reputable(we have numerous threads mentioning them).

I've noticed pricing(including NewEgg and TigerDirect etc) on refurbs has dropped lately.

Once Onkyo(and Integra) gets on the ball with 2015...should end up a banner year.

Lack of HDCP is leaving 2014 AVR gathering dust on their boxes...

The 5009 is 2014...

But the 5009 will do 4k pass through just fine, correct? As long as it's hooked up to a 4k UHBD player and a 4k TV it would be fine, correct? It's not really a concern for me in the foreseeable future, but I'm just curious. Thanks.
 

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
So I think I'm settling in on the Denon S710 and the Marantz 1506. I've disregarding the Yamaha, despite the build quality, due to only one 4k input (for possible future use), lack of two subwoofer pre-outs, and lack of Audyssey and multiple crossover points. The advantages of the S710 are the extra back surround channels should I ever want to go back to 7.1 and additional power, but as you said that wouldn't really add much if anything. For the record, I used 7.2 with my 1712 and honestly didn't feel like the back surrounds added much depth and kind of preferred 5.2. The Marantz seems to have a slightly better build quality and circuitry. If the Marantz were $450 or less, I would go with it, hands down. Which would you choose?
 

JohnRice

Bounded In a Nutshell
Premium
Reviewer
HW Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2000
Messages
18,925
Location
A Mile High
Real Name
John
Personally, I just like the solidity of Marantz compared to the other brands available these days. I'd be inclined to get the greater power of a 5009 or 5008 rather than a compact (15xx) model. I'm also completely unconcerned with 4K, so it's not a priority for me. Worst case, if it became important, just get a player with 2 hdmi outputs and run one directly to the TV, which might even be the standard way to do it.
 

Salacious Ackbar

Supporting Actor
Joined
Aug 17, 2015
Messages
513
Real Name
Josh
I did end up with the Yamaha A550. I got a great deal on a new unit and I've been very happy with it thus far. It's built like a tank and the sound excellent and very natural. Love it. Thanks everyone for all of the help.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Forum statistics

Threads
356,812
Messages
5,123,607
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
1
Top