New construction home theater configuration input requested (1 Viewer)

I am building a new home. It will be pre-wired and speakers will be installed. I have three zones to consider--family room (5.1 set up), patio (stereo), master bathroom (stereo). The patio has a CAT6 run from the family room that will be used to send the HDMI signal. I plan to use DirecTV as my television provider.


My desire is to be able to have three separate programs/music choices playing in the three different zones, and I want to be able to watch two different programs on the two televisions (family room and patio)


I will provide the televisions, separately. I am looking at the Sony 850C for the Family Room and will use an existing television outside.


The Home theater company that my builder uses has provided me a quote to provide the equipment and installation. I also went to Best Buy and had a Magnolia Home theater Consultant provide a quote as well


They have approached the solution in relatively different fashions, and so I am looking for some further input.


The first solution:


1) Sony STR ZA 1000ES AV receiver

2) Sony BDP-S5500 blue ray player

3) URC MX780 remote

4) URC MRF350 RF base stations

5) Episode EA AMP 8D 70A eight channel amplifier (for patio)

6) HDBaseT HDMI Extenders

7) EA-MII-2D-35 Amplifier (for master bathroom)


The second solution:


1) Marantz NR1605 AV receiver

2) Samsung - BD-J5900/ZA blue ray player

3) Rocketfish 4 Pair Stereo Speaker Selector

4) Logitech 915-000224 Remote

5) SONOS Connect Amp

6) Niles Cat5 MDMI Balun receiver/Transmitter


I can obviously modify/adjust both solutions. Cost is of course a factor, and the difference between the two solutions is about $2,000.


I am looking to the expertise of the group to provide input, feedback, questions, and to shoot holes in the two solutions.


I appreciate your expertise and comments.


Thanks.

First quote.

Sony AVR? Really? What else they got?
8 channel amp for the patio? Are they attempting to future proof you(in case you want to expand to 3 more areas)?

Second quote

Anything other than a Samsung.

And neither of them is offering up a 9 channel as a solution?(9 channel AVR would do this all by itself. Pioneer even has Zone 4 HDBaseT)

First, welcome to the Forum!


I’m guessing that the first solution is the more expensive one.


Just looking at pictures of the rear panels of the AVRs, I’m not entirely sure that either option will accommodate your video needs. I’d suggest studying the manuals to see if they can send a separate high-def video signal to the secondary zones. Typically multi-zone gets complicated real fast when high-def video is involved.


Aside from that, I like the first option because it has enough amplifier channels to power all the secondary speakers (I doubt they're using all those channels just for the patio). The second option is “cheaping out” with the speaker selector. Not the greatest idea.


As you probably know, it’s a bad idea to connect lots of speakers to an amplifier because it over loads it. For example, four pairs of 8-ohm speakers get you a 2-ohm load. (As a point of reference, 0 ohms is a dead short.)


The speaker selector allows connecting multiple speakers while maintaining a proper 8-ohm load, but nevertheless the amplifier’s power (aka wattage) output is distributed to all those speakers. So while each speaker gets say, 100 watts in stereo, if you’re running four pairs each speaker is only getting 25 watts. That’s not much power. So you end up cranking up the volume to compensate.


So basically even though the amp has a reasonable 8-ohm load, it’s running wide open (or close to it) all the time to get those speakers to a respectable volume level. If you intend to use all these zones regularly, it’s going to shorten the life of the AVR.


Make sense?


Regards,

Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:

First, welcome to the Forum!


I’m guessing that the first solution is the more expensive one.


Just looking at pictures of the rear panels of the AVRs, I’m not entirely sure that either option will accommodate your video needs. I’d suggest studying the manuals to see if they can send a separate high-def video signal to the secondary zones. Typically multi-zone gets complicated real fast when high-def video is involved.


Aside from that, I like the first option because it has enough amplifier channels to power all the secondary speakers (I doubt they're using all those channels just for the patio). The second option is “cheaping out” with the speaker selector. Not the greatest idea.


As you probably know, it’s a bad idea to connect lots of speakers to an amplifier because it over loads it. For example, four pairs of 8-ohm speakers get you a 2-ohm load. (As a point of reference, 0 ohms is a dead short.)


The speaker selector allows connecting multiple speakers while maintaining a proper 8-ohm load, but nevertheless the amplifier’s power (aka wattage) output is distributed to all those speakers. So while each speaker gets say, 100 watts in stereo, if you’re running four pairs each speaker is only getting 25 watts. That’s not much power. So you end up cranking up the volume to compensate.


So basically even though the amp has a reasonable 8-ohm load, it’s running wide open (or close to it) all the time to get those speakers to a respectable volume level. If you intend to use all these zones regularly, it’s going to shorten the life of the AVR.


Make sense?


Regards,

Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Click to expand...

Wayne--Thanks for the feedback.


I have a couple follow ups from your response...and forgive me, my level of expertise here is basic.


Yes, the first option is the most expensive.


As I understand it, the Sony AVR proposed in the first solution does have 2 HDMI outputs. As I understand it, the secondary amplifier is exclusively for the master bathroom, as the plan is to use secondary zone power from the main AVR for the patio.


On the second option, the solution uses a SONOS amplifier for the patio and bathroom power. But as I understand from the designer, this solution will not allow me to have two different sources playing in each location.


Both solutions plan for a DTV receiver for the family room and a secondary one for the outside (placed inside with the other components). The second solution does not include a remote capable of supporting the patio DTV, so I am still stuck using a second remote to control the outside channels.


I appreciate the feedback. I ultimately want the best solution at the best cost, and I do not want to get into this and realize after the fact that I do not have the capabilities that I desire.

schan1269 said:

First quote.

Sony AVR? Really? What else they got?
8 channel amp for the patio? Are they attempting to future proof you(in case you want to expand to 3 more areas)?

Second quote

Anything other than a Samsung.

And neither of them is offering up a 9 channel as a solution?(9 channel AVR would do this all by itself. Pioneer even has Zone 4 HDBaseT)

Click to expand...

I wondered about the 9 channel solution, too..in the first case, they are proposing a 7 channel solution for the family room and patio, with an additional amp for the bathroom...I think this was a cost play as much as anything. In the second solution, they proposed a SONOS amplifier.

for the secondary rooms. Again, I think this may have been a cost playm and the designer REALLY pushed the SONOS capabilities.

If "cost" was a factor...

Worst Buy(which anybody that knows what they are doing knows Worst Buy was the 2nd one) should have shown you the RX-A 3050.

It, the Denon X5200(a, wa, whatever), the forthcoming Onkyo/Integra and Elite 9/11 channel AVR...

Would do this, entire, audio and 2nd Zone video set up...

By themselves.

The only 9 channel 2015 AVR out there, right now, are the Denon flagships(5200/7200) and the Yamaha.

schan1269 said:

If "cost" was a factor...

Worst Buy(which anybody that knows what they are doing knows Worst Buy was the 2nd one) should have shown you the RX-A 3050.

It, the Denon X5200(a, wa, whatever), the forthcoming Onkyo/Integra and Elite 9/11 channel AVR...

Would do this, entire, audio and 2nd Zone video set up...

By themselves.

The only 9 channel 2015 AVR out there, right now, are the Denon flagships(5200/7200) and the Yamaha.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback, so the RX-A 3050 is a $1900 receiver, so is the Denon X 5200....this may be why a 7.2 plus amp solution was proposed...can I get what I want for closer to $1,000?

$2000=does everything by itself(with Apple or Android apps)

$1000+some amp/s($250-$500)+ HDMI matrix($75-$100)+ some remote($200-$400)=does everything, but nowhere near as simple to use.

You are the one that wants 2 zones of video and another audio zone.

On your patio...

Is the TV and the speakers to be considered separate...or as 1?

If separate...the $2000 "use the AVR capable of doing this by itself" is the better solution.

schan1269 said:

$2000=does everything by itself(with Apple or Android apps)

$1000+some amp/s($250-$500)+ HDMI matrix($75-$100)+ some remote($200-$400)=does everything, but nowhere near as simple to use.

You are the one that wants 2 zones of video and another audio zone.

Click to expand...

Okay....great feedback here, thank you...so questions...your comment regarding a remote....are you saying a 9 channel receiver's remote will mitigate the need for a universal remote...yes, that will save $2-400....and 2 HDMI outputs mitigates the need for an HDMI matrix (if i only want to output to 2 video sources, right?


Really great feedback...

schan1269 said:

On your patio...

Is the TV and the speakers to be considered separate...or as 1?

If separate...the $2000 "use the AVR capable of doing this by itself" is the better solution.

Click to expand...

On the patio, if I understand the question, I want to be able to view/listen to a different source.

Onkyo/Integra has the best remotes. The "app control" is what you'll use on the patio and 3rd zone.

But yes...the remote included in a $2000+ AVR will run the entire show...in the 5.1 area(unless you want remote control lighting, curtains...then, you still need an outside remote)

The higher up AVR have in internal HDMI matrix(Pioneer includes HDBaseT which mitigates the need for the AVR end cat6 balun. But, the 2015 Pioneer isn't out yet...and it will cost $2300-$3000, depending which one you want). Since that matrix is internal...the AVR app has switching control via the app(which you technically have at $1000, but not as simple).

scottmoberly said:

On the patio, if I understand the question, I want to be able to view/listen to a different source.

Click to expand...

Not what I am asking. You need to understand...

1. The TV and audio can be used separately.
2. Do they need to be?

The patio, if ran through the television PERMANENTLY, could simply feed an external amp...to then feed the patio speakers. (this option allows the "$1000 7.1 AVR")

Or...

You can run 2nd Zone feed...twice.

Video to the TV(over HDMI/cat).
Audio(permanently, if you want) ran off two channels of the AVR(which is why I'm stressing the 9 channel AVR).

scottmoberly said:

Lots of good help here...thank you....so, checking on line....I have found a couple outlet options that may come close to meeting my desired needs...would love some feedback....thoughts on the Onkyo TX-NR929 or the Marantz SR7008.

Click to expand...

You haven't said anything about 4K. Neither of those two AVR(because they are 2+model years old) is going to allow 4K streamed/disc/UV.

Obviously Atmos/X isn't on the menu. 4k is the question...

schan1269 said:

You haven't said anything about 4K. Neither of those two AVR(because they are 2+model years old) is going to allow 4K streamed/disc/UV.

Obviously Atmos/X isn't on the menu. 4k is the question...

Click to expand...

Well, yes, I do plan to use a 4K television...haven't thought about the necessity there...

With 4K...

2015. 2014 and older, for you...don't exist.

(that isn't, exactly, accurate...

2014 Onkyo/Integra have HDCP 2.2. But that 2.2 is overlaid on, essentially, HDMI 1.4. So a 2014 Onkyo, NR1030 and up, will pass a "dumbed down" 4K signal. HDR and other 4K improvements won't work...unless you stick to 2015)

scottmoberly said:

Thoughts on the Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A2050. $1,599 from Crutchfield.

Click to expand...

I forgot that one is 9 channel(7.1.4* Atmos/X is the current "buzz", leaving "2nd AVR down" out of common remembrance...).

It should do everything you need...

*most Atmos/X installs have been "self doers" doing 5.1.2 on a budget or maxed out 7.1.4 requiring AVR/prepro that support 11 total channels.

So stuff "at nine channels" tends to be afterthought....(2050 can't do 7.1.4)

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