MADHOUSE (1974) - Kino Lorber BD audio problem (1 Viewer)

Hello all,


Just got hold of the much-anticipated BD of MADHOUSE, my favourite Vincent Price film.


Unfortunately, the film's audio is clearly out of sync. Not by much (maybe 4 to 8 frames), but enough to be very noticeable.


I've tried it on several different players with the same results, so it's definitely a disc problem.


The special features are perfectly in-sync, so I'm guessing it's not a problem with my disc alone.


If anyone else has the disc, the first chat between Robert Quarry and the PR girl, just after Price's breakdown scene, makes the problem very clear.


I wonder if Kino Lobber are aware yet?

The MGM DVD looks right on to me.

davidmatychuk said:

The MGM DVD looks right on to me.

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The MGM DVD is fine. It's the new Kino Lorber BD that seems to have sync issues.

If this is an issue then I hope that this is addressed soon. Vincent Price/Peter Cushing MADHOUSE is a title that I really want but I will delay ordering until I hear more.

aPhil said:

If this is an issue then I hope that this is addressed soon. Vincent Price/Peter Cushing MADHOUSE is a title that I really want but I will delay ordering until I hear more.

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Absolutely. I fired up the disc again today to make sure I wasn't dreaming. It's definitely out of sync. The fact that the extras are perfectly in-sync implies it's a definite problem with the film file on the disc - not a replication error on my disc alone.


(The only slightly strange thing is that DVD Beaver didn't mention this in their review).


Hopefully once the disc is officially released this coming week more people will get on the case...

Will is absolutely right about this sync issue. Like DVD Beaver, I reviewed it online as well but didn't make mention of it because I thought I was either imagining it (I know that sounds weird) or perhaps it was my fps setting. I noticed it in some scenes more than others, but I'm glad Will brought it up here. Maybe we can inform Kino to see if they can do something about the matter.

MisterLime said:

This is source and its the way it appears on the negative - some scenes are a little out of sync. The old MGM release also has the same issue and there were reviews that mentioned it.

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I'm inclined to believe that, and Mr. Lime would know! I only noticed it in a couple of scenes.

So most of the movie is in sync?


Sorry to be so picky. I'm out of town for awhile,


but I do have the old MGM DVD at home,


but likely never watched it as it was (surprisingly) not anamorphically enhanced.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Madhouse-Blu-ray/124425/


The review does make mention of it too, but it seems to be on the negative.

I just watched the MGM DVD again, and I saw no sync issues at all at any time, not from bad post-dubbing, not from bad encoding, none. Now I'm tempted to get the Blu-Ray just to see if maybe the non-anamorphic DVD is obscuring sync problems that I would readily notice on the Blu-Ray. What is WRONG with me?

MisterLime said:

This is source and its the way it appears on the negative - some scenes are a little out of sync. The old MGM release also has the same issue and there were reviews that mentioned it.

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Thank you for the reply, MisterLime. It's good to know that this isn't a problem with the disc, per se. I agree that if it was a simple issue, then the same delay would be displayed throughout the entire picture. As it isn't, the delay fluctuates, certainly implying it's a problem inherent to the original neg.


However, I must agree with David's comment above. I've owned the Columbia Tri-Star VHS and the MGM DVD (and watched them both MANY times, including the DVD just a few months ago) and have never noticed any sync issues. It's perfectly possible that the extra clarity that the BD gives enables the viewer to more readily see A/V anomalies, but this does seem like rather an extreme case.


Either way, if you and Kino Lorber say it's fine, I'm happy. It's a shame though, as the video quality and extras are truly superb. It's wonderful to have this minor-masterpiece in HD at last.



UPDATE - I really hate to contradict what MisterLime is saying, but I've just checked the MGM DVD. It displays none of the audio sync issues present on the Kino BD.

How about some proof ? Are you able upload some scenes from the DVD and blu ray and lets see some evidence ? Im just curious about this really

David Steigman said:

How about some proof ? Are you able upload some scenes from the DVD and blu ray and lets see some evidence ? Im just curious about this really

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I don't have the equipment to enable me to upload clips. However, many people are reporting the same thing. Have a look at the Madhouse forum on Blu-ray.com for many similar experiences.


I must reiterate: Having re-checked the MGM DVD, it definitely does NOT have the sync issues that feature on the Kino BD. I've tried the MGM disc on 3 different players, and the audio is perfectly synced on all of them.


Incidentally, I have been unable to locate any old reviews to back up MisterLime's statement that "The old MGM release also has the same issue and there were reviews that mentioned it". Again, I hate to contradict him, but this currently looks more like a transfer error than some inherent issue. If, for some reason, the sync issue exists in the master supplied by MGM, then it's still an error.


As I said above, MADHOUSE is one of my favourite horror films of the 70s, having discovered it on VHS in the mid-80s. Kino have added some wonderful extras to the disc (that I never thought I'd see in the first place), and it's such a pity that a small error has compromised the entire presentation. That's why I'm so keen on highlighting this!

Does the source material look the same, or has it been cleaned up maybe? If Kino was using the identical master to the MGM DVD, I think that would prove that the fault was with the encoding for the Blu-Ray. And if MGM supplied Kino with a different HD master, then I would assume that the problem stems from that.

Will*B said:

I don't have the equipment to enable me to upload clips. However, many people are reporting the same thing. Have a look at the Madhouse forum on Blu-ray.com for many similar experiences.


I must reiterate: Having re-checked the MGM DVD, it definitely does NOT have the sync issues that feature on the Kino BD. I've tried the MGM disc on 3 different players, and the audio is perfectly synced on all of them.


Incidentally, I have been unable to locate any old reviews to back up MisterLime's statement that "The old MGM release also has the same issue and there were reviews that mentioned it". Again, I hate to contradict him, but this currently looks more like a transfer error than some inherent issue. If, for some reason, the sync issue exists in the master supplied by MGM, then it's still an error.


As I said above, MADHOUSE is one of my favourite horror films of the 70s, having discovered it on VHS in the mid-80s. Kino have added some wonderful extras to the disc (that I never thought I'd see in the first place), and it's such a pity that a small error has compromised the entire presentation. That's why I'm so keen on highlighting this!

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As far as I see you are the only one making this claim in both threads - here and bluray.com , I wouldnt say that you in both forums counts as *many people* . Ok seriously I do see a couple of posters.. I do understand where youre coming from , honestly..

Yes I read the review - he says its slight as does a good friend on mine who also reviewed the movie. He doesnt consider it to be as major or earth shattering as you're making it and also LOVES the movie. I did notice the 57:10 sync issue, but at least for me, I can deal with it. If the entire movie was way off, which has happened then I would contact the studio. The last Harry Potter film that I ordered from WBshop was so out of sync, I had to request another bluray.

Even the Halloween 4 sync problem on the box set wasnt as bad as members made it out to be. I guess *Serious* depends on the point of view.

Sounds similar to the sync issues on the On the Beach blu-ray.

Great news from Kino!


"It has come to our attention that Kino Lorber’s Blu-ray of MADHOUSE (1974) has some errors in the audio synchronization. We are reviewing the master materials now, and determining how significant the problem is. We will also determine whether the dialogue can be re-synched without compromising the timing of the music and sound effects, since the issue appears to be in the source elements. Based on what we find, Kino Lorber will decide whether or not to re-author the disc and set up an exchange program for the first-pressing discs. Thank you for your patience and your continued support."

I'm very, very happy to see Kino look into this matter, it's an absolute favorite of mine too, and I do hope they can fix it!

I watched it last night and while there are a couple of moments in the opening 5-10 minutes where the sync is sloppy, it looks like it was a typical (cheap) Amicus/AIP production where half the dialogue was post-synced and at least one or two of the actors are re-voiced. If not mentioned by other viewers, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. Whether it's "always been that way" or not, I can't say as I don't have the DVD to compare it to.