Total Newbie (1 Viewer)

Hi guys,


I really need some advice. I'm trying to put together a Home theater system that will not only look decent but more imporatant sound great. I've already made a start by buying the Onkyo TX-NR838 7.2-Channel Network A/V THX Receiver HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2. I had planned to use them with some very old Toshiba solid wood speakers that I at one time was going to get rid of and took to and audiophile store and they recommended to rework them as they thought that they were great speakers. I wanted to incorporate them into a 7.2 setup but I need some help.


Here are the specs:

Toshiba SS-X9

Enclosure: 291/" Highx18"widex14 3/4 Deep

15" Woofer with heavy duty magnet

5" middler

4" tweeter

Piezo horn

Frequency response 48 hz to 28,000 Hz

Recommended Maximum Amp Power (watts Rms / Channel 150 watts)


The reason I put this up is because the fellow who sold me the Reviever won't comment on these Speakers other then to say I need all new stuff, and he is recommending:


The SAT3's in White and include the mounting bracket that is fully magnetic allowing you to completely position the angle of the speaker where you need it. I would use the Energy CC10 Center possibly under the TV for the best Center for your system design. Last but not least is the Energy ESWC10 Subwoofer. The White speakers are smaller but far better buil

1ea CC10
1ea ESWC10
4ea SAT3 White

So while not commenting on the Toshiba speakers he simply blew past them and recommended a system that didn't incorporate ther Toshiba speakers. Either he doesn't think they are good enough, or he wants to sell me all new speakers. I don't doubt his intergrity but he is in the business to sell and I would like a more unbiased opinion.

The room the system is going in is 16 x 18 with a high catherdral ceiling which is why he said he recommended the Sat's for cieloing monnt. Since I'm totally a newbie in this I really need some solid advice. If it would help I have pics of the room and the Toshiba speakers I could upload but after reading allot on this site I suspect the pro's here wouldn't need them so I'm starting by asking this question first.

Thanks for your help
Krissy

The problem with those Toshiba speakers is they will not sound anything like the Energy center speaker you're thinking of buying, or anything else you might consider. They might be great older speakers but the front left and right speakers need to be timbre matched to the center speaker for seemless dialog. Often times the three front speakers are playing the same sounds so they need to sound as close to each other as possible. Imagine having two different speakers for the front left and right channels and listening to your favorite albumn or cd. They might both be excellent speakers, but when playing them both at the same time...probably not good together. Same holds true for the center speaker.


Perhaps you can use the Toshiba's in another room as a two channel stereo setup?


In any event, if you buy Energy speakers that match the CC10 (like the CB10 or CB20 bookshelves, or the CF50/CF70 tower speakers) the whole sytem will sound more cohesive and better in the long run.




The 838 might be a whole lot of receiver for those Energy speakers. Maybe a 737 or 646 might have been more then enough? That would have left more $$$ for better speakers.

gene c said:

The problem with those Toshiba speakers is they will not sound anything like the Energy center speaker you're thinking of buying, or anything else you might consider. They might be great older speakers but the front left and right speakers need to be timbre matched to the center speaker for seemless dialog. Often times the three front speakers are playing the same sounds so they need to sound as close to each other as possible. Imagine having two different speakers for the front left and right channels and listening to your favorite albumn or cd. They might both be excellent speakers, but when playing them both at the same time...probably not good together. Same holds true for the center speaker.


Perhaps you can use the Toshiba's in another room as a two channel stereo setup?


In any event, if you buy Energy speakers that match the CC10 (like the CB10 or CB20 bookshelves, or the CF50/CF70 tower speakers) the whole sytem will sound more cohesive and better in the long run.




The 838 might be a whole lot of receiver for those Energy speakers. Maybe a 737 or 646 might have been more then enough? That would have left more $$$ for better speakers.

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Gene,

Thank you, That makes perfect sense to me. I take it however that you would stick with all Energy rather then the True-audio Sat speakers that would ceiling mount which he has in there as a mix of two different brands of speakers? I think that's what I'm reading from you anyway although I may be misinterpreting.

Yes I can use the Toshiba speakers in my basement entertainment center so it's not like there going to be wasted. With all that being said are there any particular brands of speakers that you favor more then Energy or True-audio, and I'm certainly not locked into anyone in particular so if you have a source that you trust online I'd be more then receptive to a referral. I think I saw somewhere on this site that one of the experts is also an online sales source, but I'm not sure of that without looking though all the posts again. I don't have and unlimited budget but I do want to try and pair something with the receiver that will take advantage of it's capabilities.


I think your also correct that I may have been guilty of overkill on the receiver I bought, which is why I wish I had found this site before I bought anything, but that's water under the bridge at this point. I absolutely am grateful for your advice and very appreciative. I build gaming computers and root and repair Smartphones for people as a hobby, and so I know sometimes it's hard to deal with a newbie like I am with this stuff, so I'm thrilled that you took your time to respond..


Thank you very much,

Krissy

It's not as important to match the surrounds to the fronts/center. A little more so if you listen to a lot of surround sound music.. In-ceiling speakers are passable for surrounds but not really ideal for fronts or the center. And most of us prefer larger speakers then the SAT3's for the fronts and center.


There are literally hundreds of speaker brands to choose from, many are sold on-line only like AscendAcoustics.com AperionAudio.com SVS.com. Polk (Monitor and RTi), Infinity (Primus) and the Andrew Jones designed models from Pioneer are usually found in the big box stores like Frys and BestBuy and are often recommended around here.


But there soooo many others like BIC, Boston Acoustics and Klipsch.


You can browse around the Speaker Forum for more ideas.

gene c said:

It's not as important to match the surrounds to the fronts/center. A little more so if you listen to a lot of surround sound music.. In-ceiling speakers are passable for surrounds but not really ideal for fronts or the center. And most of us prefer larger speakers then the SAT3's for the fronts and center.


There are literally hundreds of speaker brands to choose from, many are sold on-line only like AscendAcoustics.com AperionAudio.com SVS.com. Polk (Monitor and RTi), Infinity (Primus) and the Andrew Jones designed models from Pioneer are usually found in the big box stores like Frys and BestBuy and are often recommended around here.


But there soooo many others like BIC, Boston Acoustics and Klipsch.


You can browse around the Speaker Forum for more ideas.

Click to expand...

Thanks love, I'll do that!!!

Krissy

If you do use the Toshiba, I recommend Klipsch and BIC Acoustech.

Piezo work best with horn loaded speakers(cause a Piezo is a horn).

schan1269 said:

If you do use the Toshiba, I recommend Klipsch and BIC Acoustech.

Piezo work best with horn loaded speakers(cause a Piezo is a horn).

Click to expand...

Thanks Sam but I've decided that you guys are right and I'm not going to incorporate them in the new system. I'm just going to take my time and find the right match for my receiver. I do, however appreciate your taking the time to respond as I am lost in this stuff. I'll do my homework and get up to speed as I've made a committeemen to Home Theater. Anyway I just built a really strong HTPC and am running Kodi on it so I am committed. Now to find the right product matches.


Krissy

Why are you focused on the Energy speakers? What's your budget for all 5 or 6 speakers plus sub?

This older speakers seem great, if the AVR allows A/B speaker selection, perhaps you could use them for music, then switch to the 5.1 speaker set for movies....


BTW I WOULD NOT mount satellites in-ceiling in a vaulted ceiling room. If at all possible, find correct locations for speakers level with your ears in the MLP.

ChromeJob said:

Why are you focused on the Energy speakers? What's your budget for all 5 or 6 speakers plus sub?

This older speakers seem great, if the AVR allows A/B speaker selection, perhaps you could use them for music, then switch to the 5.1 speaker set for movies....


BTW I WOULD NOT mount satellites in-ceiling in a vaulted ceiling room. If at all possible, find correct locations for speakers level with your ears in the MLP.

Click to expand...

Hi David,


Thanks for your response. I am not necessarily focused on Energy speakers, they were a proposal from the company I bought the reciver from. What I didn't put up here was the pricing structure which from what I can tell is after looking around a bit is pretty decent.

"1ea CC10
1ea ESWC10
4ea SAT3 White

$945.00 Delivered

1ea CC10
1ea ESWC10
2pr CB5

$850.00 Delivered (Brackets would probably cost another $50-65.00 for the CB5's)"

That being said I'm not focused on anything other than getting the best bang for the buck so if you have suggestions I'm open to hear them. As far as the Toshiba Speakers go almost everyone has said that to use them in a way your suggesting but for surround sound I need to match the sub and two front's or the system will not sound right. So everything I'm doing at the moment is researching as much as i can so that I don't mess up with buying the wrong speakers.

I really appreciate your jumping in, to be honest your the first person to suggest I could use the Toshiba's. I had thought originally I could integrate them into my overall system but most people say no, I can't do that. So that's where I am at the moment, researching and reading.

Thanks a bunch
Krissy

It's common for HT enthusiasts to have one set of speakers for movies, and another for stereo. That's why so many AVRs have speaker A/B capability.

You'll get more impartial advice here than from a company trying to sell you product. If your budget will allow, look to SVS and Hsu Research for a sub, they also sell speaker packages that are well regarded. The sub and fronts don't need to be matched, but the fronts and center ought to be ... and if you can get all 5 or 6 speakers from the same maker, so much the better. You can do this at any number of price points.

Be warned though, if you listen to music through really good stand-ready speakers and a sub (e.g. SVS Prime) with bass management enabled on the AVR (directs bass to the sub rather than playing it all through the front mains), you may find you like it better than the old tower speakers.


For roughly $900, I think you could look at getting a BIC F12 or Dayton 1200 or NXG NX-BAS-500 for the sub (lower end, $300 range, but capable), then SVS Prime for left, right, center, then buy surrounds later when you (if you) decide to upgrade the sub. An SB1000 or PB1000 from SVS or VTF-1 from Hsu would last you for years, and support music and movies without breaking a sweat. But those are in the $500 range for a sub. When you start at $500 for a sub, you find depths of bass in movies you've possibly never heard/felt before. (Those tower speakers may produce great bass, but it could be uneven at lower frequencies.)

Here's another strategy. Keep using those towers for your left and right FOR NOW, get an SVS prime or Ultra center channel and a PB1000, enable bass management ... then when you feel like spending more, get new left, right, and surround speakers. Do it in stages. I'm sure a store salesman will scoff at such a piecemeal strategy, but then he's in business to sell you stuff. WE are "in business" to help you find pleasing audio gear that doesn't disappoint or break the bank.

Addendum: Audioholics(.com) put the SVS Prime 5.1 surround speaker set on their 2015 best buy guide. $1000 delivered. All small speakers but good quality for listening to movies. And the SB1000 sub is a fine standalone sub.

Addaddendum: LOL add Sound & Vision (soundandvision.com) to list of fans of the SVS 5.1 set.

Oh btw, SVS offers free return shipping after trying out at home. But their speakers have been highly rated by reviewers, I imagine they don't get a lot returned.

Glanced at the TX-NR838 manual, though it doesn't have Speaker A/B switching, you can use any input on Zone 2 that you can in Zone 1. So for all practical purposes, you could turn the volume off for Zone 1 (5.1 speaker setup) and play music on your older speakers connected to the Zone 2 connections.

ChromeJob said:

Glanced at the TX-NR838 manual, though it doesn't have Speaker A/B switching, you can use any input on Zone 2 that you can in Zone 1. So for all practical purposes, you could turn the volume off for Zone 1 (5.1 speaker setup) and play music on your older speakers connected to the Zone 2 connections.

Click to expand...

Thank you David, that is wonderful advice. Your right so far none of the companies I've spoken to don't have anything more to say the buy, buy buy.!!! I will look at those suggestions in the morning, I took a quick glance a few minutes ago and they look pretty reasonable. I don't know if you have ever heard of a guy on youtube that goes by Z Reviews but I watched a review last night and he did a head to head comparison between Pioneer and several other brands juxtaposed against what he said was some of the best sounding speakers he had ever heard around the 1000.00 price point from a Canadian company called Fluance. Have you ever heard of them??? I know I haven't but they got some very high ratings from Z reviews and Cnet. I was going to take a look at their XL series tomorrow, curious if you know anything about them.


Thank you for being so attentive, I really appreciate this web site more every day



Krissy


PS I just looked at HSU Research and their prices are outstanding, thanks for the lead

You're very welcome. Never heard of Fluance, which doesn't mean they aren't good. I wouldn't take a leap of faith based on a single review. In just a few minutes' searching on this and other forums, you can find if anyone corroborates that YouTube review.

The names I'm familiar with, is because they were mentioned over and over and over again on these forums. When so many people mention a brand, it's worth looking into. Then ... finding reviews on several sites singing the praises of one brand/model or another, now you can buy with confidence. If you Google for reviews of the Fluance, and other brands, you'll shortly see which models have been given good marks from multiple sources.

ChromeJob said:

You're very welcome. Never heard of Fluance, which doesn't mean they aren't good. I wouldn't take a leap of faith based on a single review. In just a few minutes' searching on this and other forums, you can find if anyone corroborates that YouTube review.

The names I'm familiar with, is because they were mentioned over and over and over again on these forums. When so many people mention a brand, it's worth looking into. Then ... finding reviews on several sites singing the praises of one brand/model or another, now you can buy with confidence. If you Google for reviews of the Fluance, and other brands, you'll shortly see which models have been given good marks from multiple sources.

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David,

I totally agree with your analysis and I am very thankful for everything you've suggested. In fact I have a call into HSU Research right now to talk to them. In the meantime I thought you might enjoy seeing the reviews I found on Fluance. BTW I'm not including things like Amazon reviews only reviews from professionals in the field. I think, but I'm sure, you might be surpriesed at what they are saying about Fluance. BTW, in some of the reviews they talk about the fact that Fluance doesn't have a sub, however they have corrected that and like most companies I've looked at they have a selection, depending on your needs, of several sub's. Anyway, I'm curious what your thoughts are after seeing some of the reviews.


Have a great David,

Krissy


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp-mqzXPf3Q&list=FLOaU4pauE6-u_lmV0VRlsEA&index=15



https://wiki.ezvid.com/best-floorstanding-speakers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=25&v=jMuW24ePh1s

Fluance is Canadian. There is no lousy Canadian speaker.

schan1269 said:

Fluance is Canadian. There is no lousy Canadian speaker.

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I totality get that Sam, and at this point unless someone comes up with something better I'm headed their way


Thanks so much for your helop, this is the greatest site with the greatest people anywhere


BEST WISHES

KRISSY

Well, the Audioholics review is worth listening to (even though it's THREE YEARS OLD ). That Ezvid channel is nothing but a bunch of "Top # of..." videos, derivative of other information that I didn't see corroborated (and they said the speaker had "integrated subwoofer" LMAO). I wouldn't trust them to recommend the Top 10 Toenail Clippers. ... That Channel33rpm ... I don't know who that is, anyone else know? Looked like a guy in a room saying the speaker "sounded great." Meh.

YouTube is a community video sharing site where anyone and everyone with a computer and a camera can post something. Be wary of "reviews" that are "click-bait" intended to drive up ad revenue.

When I say, "read reviews," I mean reliable sources like Audioholics, Sound & Vision, Widescreen Review ... respected and established publications. So that said,....

The Audioholics video review mentioned there being no matched center or surrounds for that speaker. Wasn't clear if he was still referring to the appearance, or speakers with similar specs. I can bet that buying a Center channel speaker to complement those towers will not be cheap, or modestly sized. (BTW, if you are thinking of getting any kind of sub, towers with down-firing woofers for a "sub-like experience" are like a pink bow on a boar -- totally unnecessary.)

So ... what? Buying *another* set of towers that doesn't have an identifiable Center channel to go with it? Why? You already have that.

How about this set:

http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/fluance-svhtb-pre

Here's Fluance's center and surrounds being reviewed, I didn't read the review so perhaps the author mentions what Fluance speakers these would complement:

http://www.audioholics.com/surround-sound-reviews/fluance-es1-surrounds

Hmm. Audioholics hasn't reviewed anything from them in a few years. Wonder if anyone else has? Google for reviews, see if Cnet, S&V, Audiophile (?), or other established consumer electronics/home theater/audiophile site has talked about them. A 5.0 set of speakers for $629 (SVHTB) sounds lovely, but Audioholics 2011 or so review of the previous SXHTB set ($299) had some serious "Cons."

Oh, duh. The ES-1 Towers.

http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/fluance-es1

The conclusion was a very bright high (which that monster AVR could tune out), and bass roll off at 150Hz, so you'd need a very good sub that could go up to 200, and probably set the bass mgmt cross over at a omg-that's-high level of 160Hz or so.

Krissy111 said:

I totality get that Sam, and at this point unless someone comes up with something better I'm headed their way


Thanks so much for your helop, this is the greatest site with the greatest people anywhere


BEST WISHES

KRISSY

Click to expand...

My response was for CJ...


I assume you did some research on Fluance...when you found them.


I liken them to the Sony SS line. As inexpensive as you can find...before you hit "junk". I have never seen a Fluance in person...but I expect it to look like its pricepoint. Thin MDF(which is better than thin plywood from 20 years ago) covered in vinyl that doesn't even "pretend".


There is nothing wrong with that.