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Do long runs hurt shows DVD chances? (1 Viewer)

Neil Brock

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Look at some of the longest running shows in TV history and how poorly they've fared with releases:


Lassie - 587 episodes (only a best of set)


Death Valley Days - 532 (nothing)


Ozzie and Harriet - 435 (well known issues)


My Three Sons - 380 (2 seasons w/music replaced)


Make Room for Daddy - 343 (2 seasons, 1 butchered)


G.E. Theatre - 293 (nothing)


Burns and Allen - 291 (nothing other than some live PD)


Dragnet (1950s Version) - 276 (just some PD)


Fireside Theatre - 268 (nothing)


Jack Benny - 256 (just some of the live PD shows)


Life of Riley (Bendix) - 217 (nothing)


The Millionaire - 207 (nothing)


77 Sunset Strip - 205 (nothing)


The Lineup (a/k/a San Francisco Beat) - 201 (nothing)


Love That Bob - 173 (nothing)


Adventures of Rin Tin Tin - 164 (nothing)


Bachelor Father - 157 (nothing)


December Bride - 157 (nothing)


Sheriff of Cochise/U.S. Marshall - 156 (nothing)


Ben Casey - 153 (nothing)


Trapper John M.D. - 151 (nothing)
 

Tony Bensley

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Your above posted stats are indeed, most sobering, Neil!


77 SUNSET STRIP is one show that I've especially wanted to see for many decades, as my late older brother's description of this always intrigued me!


Some wishes remain unfulfilled, I guess! Just have to be thankful for what IS available!


CHEERS! :)
 

BobO'Link

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Many of the shows you cite are mired in rights issues, are PD, have poor prints, or supposedly no prints/copies available. Another issue which hurts that group is they are mostly 50s/early 60s shows which apparently are seen as low demand series, mainly because those who remember them are dwindling in numbers and generally don't purchase lots of media, if any at all.


While I *do* feel being long-lived hurts the possibility of seeing a full series release, as many people are not collectors and are quite happy with a season or three, there are long-lived shows which *have* seen full series releases. BUT most seem to be from the 90s or later or are still hugely popular even with the millenial crowd (which seems to be the new target audience for media releases in spite of their leanings towards streaming delivery).
 

The Obsolete Man

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Yeah, Dragnet 5X is hurt only by the fact that it's been in a vault since 1963. If there were video masters readily available, I'd bet Universal or Shout would have released it by now.

I would say long runs hurt older shows. But Law and Order has all 20 seasons available, so the length is t necessarily a problem. As was said above, it's elements, popularity, PD, and other factors hurting the old shows still unreleased.
 

Frank Soyke

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Neil Brock said:
Look at some of the longest running shows in TV history and how poorly they've fared with releases:


Lassie - 587 episodes (only a best of set)


Death Valley Days - 532 (nothing)


Ozzie and Harriet - 435 (well known issues)


My Three Sons - 380 (2 seasons w/music replaced)


Make Room for Daddy - 343 (2 seasons, 1 butchered)


G.E. Theatre - 293 (nothing)


Burns and Allen - 291 (nothing other than some live PD)


Dragnet (1950s Version) - 276 (just some PD)


Fireside Theatre - 268 (nothing)


Jack Benny - 256 (just some of the live PD shows)


Life of Riley (Bendix) - 217 (nothing)


The Millionaire - 207 (nothing)


77 Sunset Strip - 205 (nothing)


The Lineup (a/k/a San Francisco Beat) - 201 (nothing)


Love That Bob - 173 (nothing)


Adventures of Rin Tin Tin - 164 (nothing)


Bachelor Father - 157 (nothing)


December Bride - 157 (nothing)


Sheriff of Cochise/U.S. Marshall - 156 (nothing)


Ben Casey - 153 (nothing)


Trapper John M.D. - 151 (nothing)
Good points made by all. There are multiple reasons why these shows are unavailable and the length of the runs is one, although it certainly doesn't help. We all know the main reasons why 77 and Ozzie and Harriet remain unreleased but some others on here the studios flat don't care about. Trapper John MD is a Fox show and since they can't be bothered to release even their most requested titles, I don't see this ever coming out. CBS is now out of the b/w show biz so I'm sure they have zero interest in putting out more My 3 Sons, Ben Casey, Or The Millionaire.

Most of the others on here are pre 1960 and they frankly won't sell well enough regardless of the number of eps in the run. Most of the DVD buying public has zero interest in shows like December Bride or The Line-Up and most people under 50 sadly enough don't even know who Jack Benny Is anymore.

If a company can be fairly certain of a profit, it number of episodes is little deterrent. Look at Dark Shadows. It had a huge number of eps but it was a cult show with a huge fan following so it was worth their investment to put it out. Even shows like Mannix and Mission Impossible had enough demand for CBS to invest in releasing them even though they both had a huge number of eps. This other stuff just doesn't have a demand enough anymore to justify a release.

When you throw in sifting through multiple rights issues, music licensing probs, and finding decent prints or remastering stuff, it just gets to be too much of a daunting task for these distributors and probably not worth their time and money. The number of eps just adds to all that, but it's not the main factor IMO.
 

bmasters9

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Frank Soyke said:
Trapper John MD is a Fox show and since they can't be bothered to release even their most requested titles, I don't see this ever coming out.
I don't know if even Shout! will release it, after what has apparently happened with L.A. Law. I thought that all of that series would come out.
 

Regulus

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I've acquired all but seven episodes of Lassie via "Alternate Sources".. This show was well into its "Ranger" years when I was introduced to the dawg, soon thereafter I discovered there were two other "Versions" of this show "Bouncing Around" namely the "Jeff's Collie" & "Timmy and Lassie" series. It wasn't until the advent of the Internet did discover this was one HUGE series, and not three different series. It turned out when this show was syndicated, the buffoons who "split" this series LEFT out the episodes where the puppy changed owners! Namely seasons four, nine, ten and eleven (seasons 8-10 had some "Experimental Episodes" made by the producers, who realized "Timmy" was growing up, and he wouldn't be a kid forever). It wasn't until I came across the 'boots was I able to put all the pieces together. It shames me to have to acquire various shows via "Alternative Means" because whoever owns the series refuses to release it via official means. :angry:
 

LeoA

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We've also had a number of long-running shows make it out in their entirety.


But sadly, I definitely see the scale of some of these larger series as an issue. More discs and more expensive packaging per release, more remastering work for each release, sales traditionally decline from season to season, no viable option for a complete series release, etc.


I hope that some of this finds its way out eventually, and several others that are in-progress or stalled out today continue.
 

Neil Brock

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There's reportedly a 50-50 chance that Make Room For Daddy (which is handled for the Thomas estate by SFM) may make it out on MOD. Thankfully, the folks doing the 16x9 transfers for them convinced SFM to at the same time do a set of transfers in 4x3 complete, not cut by 5+ minutes like the ones being done for COZI. So, fingers crossed, we may at some point be able to get access to the show remastered and uncut. Of course excluding seasons 1-3, which are serving a life sentence in television prison with no chance of ever being paroled. But at least those 90 shows have the 78 episodes of Amos 'n' Andy to keep them company for eternity.
 

Rick Thompson

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Another problem with the 50s and 60s shows is that many of them used music tracks from catalogs, and tracking down the rights can be difficult -- assuming that the sources were properly documented and the the records were maintained in a usable shape. Even a show like The Fugitive tracked music (except for the original Pete Rugolo recordings), which led to the infamous new scores for seasons 2-4. It was only because The Fugitive had a big following that (a) CBS/Paramount would spend the money to commission a new score, and then (b) would spend the money to research, obtain the rights to, and then restore the great bulk of the original music. I can't see that happening with most of the shows on that list -- Trapper John, M.D. being the obvious exception given its 1979-1986 vintage. Shows had to have original scores by then.
 

Nick*Z

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Shout! Factory's L.A. Law franchise was, frankly, a disaster. The image virtually unwatchable. Let's get one thing clear - actually two. First, L.A. Law was shot of film and edited on tape. But the original film elements are still somewhere to be had, and ought to have been reassembled and remastered before finding their way to home video. As TV monitors get larger and more sophisticated there is NO room for shoddy workmanship on home video. The digitized look gets magnified and looks atrocious.


Now, a lot of the shows you are referring to in this post are pre-tape era and would certainly benefit from new hi-res scans for Blu-ray or even a DVD release (although, once done in hi-res, there's really no point to even doing a DVD release). It's time and money, folks, and feasibility that is at stake. Will these shows make back the money invested in them to upgrade the content? The longer the show the more unlikely it is to find its way to home video these days. If they do they will come out looking more like L.A. Law and that's frankly an insult to the people who worked on these shows and made them such an indelible part of our TV land culture. But NO ONE will want to see them if they look as bad as L.A. Law does. Releasing it just to say it's out is a poor policy which should either be abandoned or spell the kiss of death for more vintage TV product on DVD and Blu-ray. No economy in a bad transfer. None at all!!!
 

Corey3rd

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The price of redoing post production is rather steep especially for 177 episodes. This is something the rights holders of LA Law need to do and not Shout! Factory. The only show that has done a complete post overhaul for HD is Star Trek the Next Generation and they already had a cable deal for the new transfers to eat the costs - not to mention the Blu-rays. Is there a channel willing to pay a premium price for LA Law HD?


Nick*Z said:
Shout! Factory's L.A. Law franchise was, frankly, a disaster. The image virtually unwatchable. Let's get one thing clear - actually two. First, L.A. Law was shot of film and edited on tape. But the original film elements are still somewhere to be had, and ought to have been reassembled and remastered before finding their way to home video. As TV monitors get larger and more sophisticated there is NO room for shoddy workmanship on home video. The digitized look gets magnified and looks atrocious.


Now, a lot of the shows you are referring to in this post are pre-tape era and would certainly benefit from new hi-res scans for Blu-ray or even a DVD release (although, once done in hi-res, there's really no point to even doing a DVD release). It's time and money, folks, and feasibility that is at stake. Will these shows make back the money invested in them to upgrade the content? The longer the show the more unlikely it is to find its way to home video these days. If they do they will come out looking more like L.A. Law and that's frankly an insult to the people who worked on these shows and made them such an indelible part of our TV land culture. But NO ONE will want to see them if they look as bad as L.A. Law does. Releasing it just to say it's out is a poor policy which should either be abandoned or spell the kiss of death for more vintage TV product on DVD and Blu-ray. No economy in a bad transfer. None at all!!!
 

Dave Lawrence

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Neil Brock said:
There's reportedly a 50-50 chance that Make Room For Daddy (which is handled for the Thomas estate by SFM) may make it out on MOD. Thankfully, the folks doing the 16x9 transfers for them convinced SFM to at the same time do a set of transfers in 4x3 complete, not cut by 5+ minutes like the ones being done for COZI. So, fingers crossed, we may at some point be able to get access to the show remastered and uncut. Of course excluding seasons 1-3, which are serving a life sentence in television prison with no chance of ever being paroled. But at least those 90 shows have the 78 episodes of Amos 'n' Andy to keep them company for eternity.

I hope it works out, and even a 50-50 chance is better than I would have hoped for at this point. Fingers definitely crossed. I'll also avoid oncoming black cats if necessary. :)


And after that, perhaps the single season of Make Room for Granddaddy? (Not trying to sound greedy; just thought I'd throw that hopeful idea out there.)
 

Neil Brock

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Corey3rd said:
The price of redoing post production is rather steep especially for 177 episodes. This is something the rights holders of LA Law need to do and not Shout! Factory. The only show that has done a complete post overhaul for HD is Star Trek the Next Generation and they already had a cable deal for the new transfers to eat the costs - not to mention the Blu-rays. Is there a channel willing to pay a premium price for LA Law HD?

Really. And who the hell is picking up the cost for such a project? Shout? For a show that sold so well that they aren't continuing it beyond season 3? Fox? Good luck with that. People who come up with these ideas must live on another planet.
 

MatthewA

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It is only in the US where LA Law has stalled; in the UK you can buy the whole series.


But the studio's shortsightedness is not limited to one particular show. In fact, it extends to just about every TV series they ever shot on film pre-1990 except M*A*S*H and Lost in Space. The only show they actually got off their duffs and did new transfers on was Rhoda, which they didn't actually produce but merely own, and that was only after the outcry after Season 1 looked such a mess and had precious few uncut episodes.


All of Fox's Shout! Factory acquisitions have stalled for reasons that are beyond comprehension. Maybe Olive will finish some of the shows Shout! started.
 

Dave Lawrence

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It is only in the US where LA Law has stalled; in the UK you can buy the whole series.
As far as I know, it's still stalled in the UK, too. The Season 7 release date has been pushed back multiple times for over a year. The current release date is July 20, but I expect that to be postponed, too.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009TR7AQW?keywords=la%20law%20season%207&qid=1436153793&ref_=sr_1_1&s=dvd&sr=1-1

I've purchased the Region 2 releases for Seasons 4, 5 & 6, so at least I have a version (albeit not Region 1), but it's disappointing that even the Region 2 releases appear permanently stalled.


All of Fox's Shout! Factory acquisitions have stalled for reasons that are beyond comprehension. Maybe Olive will finish some of the shows Shout! started.
That would be nice.
 

bretmaverick2

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The reason that most shows stall are not "beyond comprehension".

It is the most easily understandable of reasons -- LOW SALES. As much as we all want to believe that the shows we love are beloved by multi- thousands of others, my guess is that actual sales show otherwise.

And my guess is that we fans would scream loudly over a single season of , for example, LA LAW at $125 per season to get it in the perfect form that fans 'demand'.

We are expecting companies to risk a whole lot of capital on properties that don't have the legion sized cult followings that we each wish our favorite shows had.
 

FanCollector

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Low sales are the primary factor, of course. But there are still some stalled series for which more has to be at play. Green Acres is a good example. When the first three seasons were released, they sold well enough to appear on some annual bestseller lists for TV-on-DVD titles. There were no missing elements for the latter seasons that would have cost significantly more than the earlier ones. We can all name literally dozens of series that have come out and surely had lower sales figures than Green Acres. The corporate situation with MGM and Fox, and then whatever difficulty there is on agreeing to a licensing deal, has certainly contributed to the stalling of Green Acres. Sure, if it sold tens of millions of copies, those other factors wouldn't matter, but I think it is sometimes oversimplifying to say that series with low sales stall and series with high sales don't.
 

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