Should studios kill off standard definition DVD's? (1 Viewer)

Dave Moritz · Jun 25, 2015

I realize this may hit a hot button with a few people but please read through this first. DVD was a big leap forward and gave us a much needed improvement in video and audio quality over the old VHS tapes! Especially nice when renting a video from Blockbuster or even Netflix when that service came about. We did not have to worry about the VCR damaging the tape or renting a movie that had been damaged. With DVD no more rewinding the movie after every viewing or the next time we wanted to watch the movie. We went from approximately 230 lines of resolution with VHS to 480 lines with DVD and we went from an analog dolby prologic audio mix to discrete 5.1 digital surround sound mixes. Just before DVD hit the market Dolby Digital and DTS surround sound formats where born. VHS and Beta saw the birth of home video and really took off with the birth of DVD discs! DVD's arrived in US Markets around 1995/1996 and the format was a big hit and consumers can still purchase content on DVD discs at local retailers and at online stores as well. Around 2004 the next format was released but once again we had a format war on our hands just like back in the day when VHS and Beta Max battled it out. But then we had HD-DVD and Blu-ray disc fighting it out and we all know what happened then. Blu-ray discs are currently offer the best presentation for those of us that have HDTV's and it may be a strange concept but many people do not yet have an HDTV aprox 10 years after HDTV's with full 1080p HD basically came out.

So now we have digital HD downloads, we can rent a movie using video on demand and we can even stream HD content from a number of different services. We can also buy or even rent high definition movies on Blu-ray discs which has been available for some time now. Vinyl records came out around the 1920's and lasted all the way up to approx 1991 when the left the mainstream. The Compact Disc came about around 1982 and can still be purchased today even though music can be downloaded via the internet. While vinyl records and music CD's have had a much longer lifespan compared to the DVD there comes a time when you ether wonder or have to ask if the format has out lived its usefulness or if should be retired?

Many of us have been involved in audio and or video have seen formats come and go and it is just a matter of progress. Towards the end of 2015 we are looking at having three different formats available and one has to wonder how disruptive and counter productive it might be for three formats to share our local retail space or even the rack space at online retailers. When DVD first came out and for years afterword the format offered the best presentation but now compared to the 1080p blu-ray disc the video depending on the quality of the encode and or transfer can be really bad to ok. There is also all the other ways we can download and or stream content to our computers, blu-ray players, HDTV's and other devices. How much longer should studios keep supporting and releasing content on the old and outdated 480p dvd disc?

Soon we will have a new format that will not only give us a boost in resolution but more color bit rate and wider color gamete. We will soon have a format close to the commercial cinema for the first time and it has the capability to give those with dedicated ht rooms and projection set ups close to the 4K presentation/35mm film quality one would have to go to the theater to get. We already have audio superior to the commercial cinema with audio codex like DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby True HD and uncompressed PCM audio. Along with 1080p Blu-ray that is in millions of consumers homes and with all the other choices consumers have available to them is it finally time to kill off DVD? Maybe what needs to happen is for the DVD/Bluray combos to go away and for the movies to be released in 1080p Blu-ray/UHD Blu-ray combo packs instead. This might get more consumers that have not gotten around to upgrading to HDTV to actually at least upgrade to a HDTV display and to a HD Blu-ray player as well. And maybe even get some to bypass 1080p HDTV displays and go directly to a UHD TV.

So the question is should DVD be allowed to die and has it now so hopelessly outdated that maybe it is time for studios to say goodbye to the DVD? If not around the end of 2015 or the end of 2016, when? Just something to think about!

schan1269 · Jun 25, 2015

Blu-ray will die before DVD.

Carabimero · Jun 25, 2015

Last year I worked on a Blu-ray release, producing special features. I bought seven copies when it came out, thinking they'd make great gifts for five family members and a couple of friends. The problem was....only 2 in 7 of my gift recipients had a Blu-ray player. The rest were still watching DVDs--and happy to do so.

That was a wake up call for me. It's easy to focus only on my job or immerse myself in this forum and get a distorted sense of reality.

JoHud · Jun 25, 2015

DVDs are cheaper to produce, and I imagine still keep pace with blu-ray sales when both are released in tandem featuring the latest Hollywood feature.

Also re-releasing a film on blu-ray would often entail remastering a film in HD, and some studios are still to lazy/cheap to do that on a large scale.

Radioman970 · Jun 25, 2015

Carabimero said:
Last year I worked on a Blu-ray release, producing special features. I bought seven copies when it came out, thinking they'd make great gifts for five family members and a couple of friends. The problem was....only 2 in 7 of my gift recipients had a Blu-ray player. The rest were still watching DVDs--and happy to do so.

That was a wake up call for me. It's easy to focus only on my job or immerse myself in this forum and get a distorted sense of reality.

ditto. my niece doesn't have a blu ray. many of my listeners don't have blu ray players. hell, one old guy who has listened to me for 25 years plays VHS, records and cassettes, has no PC or internet... lol

Thomas T · Jun 25, 2015

One of my best friends downloads movies and watches them on her 17" computer screen, two others have DVD with no intention of upgrading to blu. My next door neighbor doesn't even own a DVD player! Too many HTFers live in a bubble. In the real world, DVD is good enough. They couldn't give a rat's arse about 4K or UHD blu.

What you're suggesting is a form of "blackmail", an attempt to force consumers to upgrade by removing the product they use. DVD will die a natural death when there's no longer a market for it. I know I sound like a broken record but the "golden age" of physical media is over. We are the last of the physical media generation. The future generations will be downloading and streaming.

Robert Crawford · Jun 25, 2015

Dave Moritz said:
I realize this may hit a hot button with a few people but please read through this first. DVD was a big leap forward and gave us a much needed improvement in video and audio quality over the old VHS tapes! Especially nice when renting a video from Blockbuster or even Netflix when that service came about. We did not have to worry about the VCR damaging the tape or renting a movie that had been damaged. With DVD no more rewinding the movie after every viewing or the next time we wanted to watch the movie. We went from approximately 230 lines of resolution with VHS to 480 lines with DVD and we went from an analog dolby prologic audio mix to discrete 5.1 digital surround sound mixes. Just before DVD hit the market Dolby Digital and DTS surround sound formats where born. VHS and Beta saw the birth of home video and really took off with the birth of DVD discs! DVD's arrived in US Markets around 1995/1996 and the format was a big hit and consumers can still purchase content on DVD discs at local retailers and at online stores as well. Around 2004 the next format was released but once again we had a format war on our hands just like back in the day when VHS and Beta Max battled it out. But then we had HD-DVD and Blu-ray disc fighting it out and we all know what happened then. Blu-ray discs are currently offer the best presentation for those of us that have HDTV's and it may be a strange concept but many people do not yet have an HDTV aprox 10 years after HDTV's with full 1080p HD basically came out.

So now we have digital HD downloads, we can rent a movie using video on demand and we can even stream HD content from a number of different services. We can also buy or even rent high definition movies on Blu-ray discs which has been available for some time now. Vinyl records came out around the 1920's and lasted all the way up to approx 1991 when the left the mainstream. The Compact Disc came about around 1982 and can still be purchased today even though music can be downloaded via the internet. While vinyl records and music CD's have had a much longer lifespan compared to the DVD there comes a time when you ether wonder or have to ask if the format has out lived its usefulness or if should be retired?

Many of us have been involved in audio and or video have seen formats come and go and it is just a matter of progress. Towards the end of 2015 we are looking at having three different formats available and one has to wonder how disruptive and counter productive it might be for three formats to share our local retail space or even the rack space at online retailers. When DVD first came out and for years afterword the format offered the best presentation but now compared to the 1080p blu-ray disc the video depending on the quality of the encode and or transfer can be really bad to ok. There is also all the other ways we can download and or stream content to our computers, blu-ray players, HDTV's and other devices. How much longer should studios keep supporting and releasing content on the old and outdated 480p dvd disc?

Soon we will have a new format that will not only give us a boost in resolution but more color bit rate and wider color gamete. We will soon have a format close to the commercial cinema for the first time and it has the capability to give those with dedicated ht rooms and projection set ups close to the 4K presentation/35mm film quality one would have to go to the theater to get. We already have audio superior to the commercial cinema with audio codex like DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby True HD and uncompressed PCM audio. Along with 1080p Blu-ray that is in millions of consumers homes and with all the other choices consumers have available to them is it finally time to kill off DVD? Maybe what needs to happen is for the DVD/Bluray combos to go away and for the movies to be released in 1080p Blu-ray/UHD Blu-ray combo packs instead. This might get more consumers that have not gotten around to upgrading to HDTV to actually at least upgrade to a HDTV display and to a HD Blu-ray player as well. And maybe even get some to bypass 1080p HDTV displays and go directly to a UHD TV.

So the question is should DVD be allowed to die and has it now so hopelessly outdated that maybe it is time for studios to say goodbye to the DVD? If not around the end of 2015 or the end of 2016, when? Just something to think about!

They better not as not every film title has good enough film elements available to produce a BD/UHD. Your suggestion is a terrible idea for that reasoning alone besides some other reasoning people will bring up here. I hope you're not suggesting that everybody should adopt these advanced HT technologies that you have enthusiastically accepted as the means you want to view home video products? Any consumer should be able to watch such products at the level their discretionary funds can support doing so as I wouldn't want the home video industry alienating those of us, limited by our discretionary budget.

Keith Cobby · Jun 25, 2015

I have some sympathy with Dave's view. DVD supplanted VHS because the latter had obvious deficiencies and I think blu-ray has not really taken off because DVD is good enough for many (most) people. The same may be said for 4K which is an even smaller incremental step up from blu-ray. Packaged media is on the wane and will become a minority interest as streaming takes its place for non-collectors. I will just reiterate my hope that over the next 5 years the films I really want are released on blu-ray.

atfree · Jun 25, 2015

Only if they provide us with properly mastered BD's of all previously released DVD's

Matt Hough · Jun 25, 2015

I wouldn't mind DVD going away IF TV series which normally are only released on DVD were then switched to Blu. But if the shows would simply not be issued at all if DVD wasn't available, then I would not be in favor of it.

AndyMcKinney · Jun 25, 2015

Dave Moritz said:
So the question is should DVD be allowed to die and has it now so hopelessly outdated that maybe it is time for studios to say goodbye to the DVD? If not around the end of 2015 or the end of 2016, when? Just something to think about!

What do you propose the studios do with shows that were produced on SD videotape and are therefore, locked into 480i (NTSC) and 576i (PAL)? It brings up the old chestnut of putting blu-ray discs on the market that only contain standard-definition content and would just add confusion, and outrage from some. Germany has done this for some things, like Buck Rogers in the 25th Century and it got exactly the reaction I expected: fans were ticked off and accused the video company of trying to "trick" people into thinking they're released the show in HD.

DVD was a no-brainer to replace VHS because it was one standard-definition source replacing another, just that it was higher quality (DVD provided a lot more lines of that NTSC-525 resolution than VHS did). It just wouldn't be the same with blu-ray, so part of why it's still probably best to keep the two formats separate.

Of course, on the other hand, keeping DVD on the market is also perpetuating the slow adoption of blu-ray hardware/software. As has been said by many others, the public think DVD is "good enough" and they're reluctant to change/learn new technology.

The only thing studios could do, I suppose, is release the big blockbuster titles in BD-only, but given the anecdotal evidence that's been provided here, I don't think it would result in mass adoption of BD...it would just result in decreased total sales for the studios.

Wasn't part of the reason for the advent of BD/DVD combo packs for most Hollywood features to try to get people to start getting used to BD and to sort of nudge them toward the format? It doesn't seem to have worked.

No, if studios kill off DVD, then they'll just go whole hog and kill off all physical formats, and I don't think any of here is in a hurry to see that happen.

Alf S · Jun 25, 2015

I think DVD will outlast most everything as far as physical discs go. No way in heck they would ever end this year or next. They will be around until the point that every single American has access to (and utilizes) full high speed internet to stream material to thei TV's and other devices. Until then, folks want their cheap $5 copies of Transformers or whatever else they desire from Wal Mart, Target, BB etc.

Blu Ray made a nice run at things, but I think cost factor and the need to upgrade their TV's really made for a tough road for Blu and even though it is pretty much engrained into the system now, fewer folks are investing in the discs than DVD.

DVD's are for the true masses, then Blu heads into the niche world (HTF type folks) of viewers who demand more, have more $$$ to invest in good equipment etc. As nor the next level of HD materials go, it will be but a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the previous niche of higher end viewers. It will never catch on the way we've seen DVD catch fire. It will be relagted to the select few who have the $$$ to jump into it. Joe Sixpack will never find a use for it unless it's free and easily attainble and doesnt' require more equipment.

To the OP...DVD is here to stay...for a good loooong while.

Worth · Jun 25, 2015

Why would the studios try to force their customers to buy blu-ray or 4K discs? Sony excepted, they're not in the hardware business. It doesn't matter to them what form or format people prefer as long as they keep making money. VHS was phased out because it no longer made economic sense to keep producing it, not because DVD was technically superior. At this point, DVD is the still the de facto standard for physical media, as it continues to outsell blu-ray by a wide margin.

David Weicker · Jun 25, 2015

First of all, are you the guy who suggested that New Coke replace Coke? [emoji10]

But seriously, as a corollary, if studios stop making DVDs, then players will be harder to find and maintain. And that would seriously hurt the millions of existing customers (have you tried to find a cheap VHS player, or even a stand-alone player?). Now I realize that currently Blu-Ray players play both. But the question was raised whether UHD would continue to be backward compatible.

BobO'Link · Jun 25, 2015

Add to all the reasons above that DVD *still* outsells BR by a margin of at least 2 to 1.

Source: http://www.homemediamagazine.com/market-analysis/sales-report-week-ended-061315

Even though the studios would like to see all physical media go away in favor of digital "purchases" (you *do* know you don't really "own" those? They're really just long term rentals - just try to sell/give one away) they're not ready to kill the cash cow.

What I see is:

BR discs frequently cost more (although that's starting to change a bit).

You can't play your BR in Junior's room, the car, the playroom, the portable player (are portable BR players even made?).

Bargain DVD players are *still* 50%, or more, less expensive than the cheapest BR player.

Brick and Mortar stores have significantly reduced the floorspace for *all* physical media (BR, DVD, CD) but those new releases still get end-caps because they sell. The DVD section is typically larger, and better stocked, than the BR section.

As mentioned by Andy, the BR/DVD Combo Packs don't appear to be working like distributors wish and are being discontinued for many releases, especially in the TVonDVD market. I *still* see these being viable for the "collector" and many smaller distributors are using this model with releases priced less than similar offerings from the big boys.

Vinyl hasn't died and is seeing a resurgence in the market, especially with collectors. The same will hold true for CD, DVD, and possibly BR.

The death of physical media is greatly exaggerated.

Randy Korstick · Jun 25, 2015

I'm surprised the original poster kept acknowledging VHS and Beta. Those were useful formats in the late 70's and 80's but they were hopelessly outdated by the early 90's just as the poster shows DVD is now. Laserdisc by 1991-1992 clearly established itself as superior to VHS. At that time there was a huge number of titles out and a steady monthly flow of new releases. Pricing for 65% of the titles fell into affordable list prices of $29.99, $34.99 and $39.99. Of course discounts were available then as now. Laserdisc had 400 lines vs. 220-230 lines of VHS. Laserdisc had uncompressed audio and by 1995 5.1 sound. Laserdisc introduced Audio Commentaries and extra features. VHS did not have audio commentaries and rarely had extra features. Laserdisc introduced Widescreen something VHS rarely had. Laserdisc players also became affordable by this time. But yet just like Blu-Ray Laserdisc remained a niche product that appealed mainly to Home Theater Enthusiast and Movie collectors more than the average person who just wanted to watch a movie at home. For those people VHS was easier to get, rent and use just like DVDs are now vs. Blu-Ray. It always amazed me why people were still using VHS all through the 90's when it was so outdated compared to Laserdisc. Even when DVD came out at the beginning of 1997 there were still large numbers of people using VHS well into the 2000's also amazing. But that's the way it is with technology. When people are comfortable with something that's easy to use they usually don't change unless they are either convinced to change or forced to change. So even though Blu-Ray sales numbers are a little higher than Laserdisc was it is still a niche format and in every way the new Laserdisc. Just as Laserdisc died before VHS, Blu-Ray will die before DVD for all the same reasons.

davidHartzog · Jun 25, 2015

I don't see BDs dying off, but I also think dvds are here to stay. We have cds and vinyl so no reason we can't have dvds and BDs. And dvd is the only way some of the older films will ever make it out of the vaults. Streaming is ok but unreliable, and I wanna watch what I wanna watch, so I have own 3500 dvds and BDs.

Rob_Ray · Jun 25, 2015

It seems to me that UHD BluRay will kill off standard BluRay as the niche format for HT types while DVD goes on as the low-cost alternative for most folks. And there's nothing wrong with that as long as UHD players remain backward compatible with earlier digital formats and can be hooked up to standard HDTVs. I still have lots of older friends and relatives who have yet to upgrade to HDTV. DVD's one advantage for now (and this is dimming with each passing day) is that it upscales nicely when played on HDTVs with quality BluRay players and yet also works perfectly well for those who still have 4x3 sets. DVD isn't going anywhere until the last 4x3 set dies.

Worth · Jun 25, 2015

Rob_Ray said:
It seems to me that UHD BluRay will kill off standard BluRay as the niche format for HT types while DVD goes on as the low-cost alternative for most folks.

I doubt it. For one thing, aside from a handful of perennial big sellers (Gone with the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, Casablanca etc.), it's highly unlikely we'll get any catalogue titles on UHD. And just look at the comments in any of the UHD disc threads - there seems to be limited interest in the format even among the home theatre crowd. Personally, I think UHD is DOA and will soon go the way of D-VHS.

Alf S · Jun 25, 2015

Yep...UHD will fade away just like like all the hi-def audio discs everyone swore was going to be the next big thing in the audio world.

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Should studios kill off standard definition DVD's? (1 Viewer)

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