The Civil War: A Film By Ken Burns (Blu-ray) Available for Preorder (1 Viewer)

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Finally! I definite purchase of this excellent documentary. I hope the next one on BD is Baseball by Ken Burns.

Soooo.....widescreen? Any word on how well this was handled in its "new & improved" AR?

PBS will be showing the new version this September (25th Anniversary), with the blu-ray due out in October.

JoHud said:

Soooo.....widescreen? Any word on how well this was handled in its "new & improved" AR?

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More to come. http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/showtracker/la-et-st-pbs-to-air-remastered-version-of-ken-burns-the-civil-war-20150409-story.html

I'm almost glad now that I never got around to seeing this. Sounds like this will be the ideal presentation. I can't wait.

JohnMor said:

I'm almost glad now that I never got around to seeing this. Sounds like this will be the ideal presentation. I can't wait.

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It's one of the best documentaries ever made.


Also recommend Ken Burns' The War.


I am about to purchase THE WORLD AT WAR on Blu-ray, as I have never seen that and hear nothing but great things about it.

I seem to remember that the bluray and corresponding DVD reissue release of The World at War was cropped to fit widescreen TVs. I quickly bought the old DVD version that doesn't have the cropping, but haven't watched it yet.

JoHud said:

Soooo.....widescreen? Any word on how well this was handled in its "new & improved" AR?

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There isn't any confirmation that it is widescreen at this point--all we have is what the Times article says, that the film was "scanned frame-by-frame for a new high-definition print, which is touted as the first time viewers will get to see the series the way Burns originally shot it".


Obviously, the documentary was shot on film, and broadcast initially in the 1.33:1 TV ratio. What's not clear is if that 1.33:1 image was cropped from a widescreen composition, or if Burns simply composed for 1.33:1 and therefore used the "entire" film. I had always assumed that Burns would have shot and composed for 1.33:1, and that would mean that any widescreen version would be, at best, cropped and reframed, like The World at War, though I suppose it's possible he could have composed for widescreen in case he ended up releasing any of the documentary in cinemas.


Of course, the other, best option, is that the film was shot for 4:3 TV, but the image was cropped and zoomed on all four sides when the 1990 video broadcast masters were made, either accidentally, or because of limitations at the time. This would mean that the new HD versions would retain their OAR, but introduce a small amount of new/different picture information now that any cropping/zooming from the broadcast master is gone.


Personally, I think a cinema scenario is unlikely, and that Burns and PBS could simply be sugarcoating a crop-and-reframe job as the way it was "originally intended" to be shown (meaning: "If TVs were widescreen in 1990, we'd have shown it in widescreen"). I'm especially wary of the new broadcast on PBS, because I don't see them broadcasting the series in 4:3 HD in 2015.


But then, I've become very cynical, after seeing how poorly some 4:3 TV shows have been treated in the HD era, especially after this new, brilliant, "we shot [name of TV series or telefilm] in 4:3 but protected for 16:9, so now the Blu-ray will be 16:9" argument.

McCrutchy said:

There isn't any confirmation that it is widescreen at this point--all we have is what the Times article says, that the film was "scanned frame-by-frame for a new high-definition print, which is touted as the first time viewers will get to see the series the way Burns originally shot it".


Obviously, the documentary was shot on 35mm film, and broadcast initially in the 1.33:1 TV ratio. What's not clear is if that 1.33:1 image was cropped from a widescreen composition, or if Burns simply composed for 1.33:1 and therefore used the "entire" film. I had always assumed that Burns would have shot and composed for 1.33:1, and that would mean that any widescreen version would be, at best, cropped and reframed, like The World at War, though I suppose it's possible he could have composed for widescreen in case he ended up releasing any of the documentary in cinemas.


Of course, the other, best option, is that the film was shot for 4:3 TV, but the image was cropped and zoomed on all four sides when the 1990 video broadcast masters were made, either accidentally, or because of limitations at the time. This would mean that the new HD versions would retain their OAR, but introduce a small amount of new/different picture information now that any cropping/zooming from the broadcast master is gone.


Personally, I think a cinema scenario is unlikely, and that Burns and PBS could simply be sugarcoating a crop-and-reframe job as the way it was "originally intended" to be shown (meaning: "If TVs were widescreen in 1990, we'd have shown it in widescreen"). I'm especially wary of the new broadcast on PBS, because I don't see them broadcasting the series in 4:3 HD in 2015.


But then, I've become very cynical, after seeing how poorly some 4:3 TV shows have been treated in the HD era, especially after this new, brilliant, "we shot [name of TV series or telefilm] in 4:3 but protected for 16:9, so now the Blu-ray will be 16:9" argument.

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For people that are cynical about this issue, you at least have a chance to view this new high definition version of this documentary on TV before possibly purchasing the upcoming BD.

Robert Crawford said:

For people that are cynical about this issue, you at least have a chance to view this new high definition version of this documentary on TV before possibly purchasing the upcoming BD.

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Well, with respect Robert, that's sort of a non-solution. While the rebroadcast is great, my only concern is the Blu-ray.


If the BD contains an altered image for the sake of filling a 16:9 screen, then it's always going to contain an altered image. Unless, of course, it's redone, and we have countless examples to undermine that possibility. The bottom line is, realistically, we will have one and only one Blu-ray edition of this series.


And if we're talking about a series that was shot and composed for 1.33:1 (as I suspect we are), then that's how the Blu-ray should be, at least in my opinion.


EDIT: As a side note, the thing that really bothers me about crop-and-reframe TV Blu-ray releases is how much extra money (and time) has to be spent to make the widescreen alterations look suitable. If I recall, that was apparently part of the reason Freemantle wasn't able to afford to release an OAR BD set of The World at War.

The article linked below does state that the new high definition version will feature the same fidelity and framing as the 16mm negative. That would be a 4:3 image I would think.


http://www.channelguidemagblog.com/index.php/2015/04/09/restored-version-of-ken-burns-the-civil-war-will-air-on-pbs-around-series-25th-anniversary/

McCrutchy said:

Well, with respect Robert, that's sort of a non-solution. While the rebroadcast is great, my only concern is the Blu-ray.


If the BD contains an altered image for the sake of filling a 16:9 screen, then it's always going to contain an altered image. Unless, of course, it's redone, and we have countless examples to undermine that possibility. The bottom line is, realistically, we will have one and only one Blu-ray edition of this series.


And if we're talking about a series that was shot and composed for 1.33:1 (as I suspect we are), then that's how the Blu-ray should be, at least in my opinion.


EDIT: As a side note, the thing that really bothers me about crop-and-reframe TV Blu-ray releases is how much extra money (and time) has to be spent to make the widescreen alterations look suitable. If I recall, that was apparently part of the reason Freemantle wasn't able to afford to release an OAR BD set of The World at War.

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I think you've missed my point. The rebroadcast gives you a chance to evaluate whether the BD will have an altered image before its release date. If it does then you can decide not to buy it. That is my only point I'm making here, not whether the BD should be 1.33 or 1.85.

bugsy-pal said:

I seem to remember that the bluray and corresponding DVD reissue release of The World at War was cropped to fit widescreen TVs. I quickly bought the old DVD version that doesn't have the cropping, but haven't watched it yet.

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Yes, I am aware of this.


However, based on the number of reviews I have read, most all reviewers agree that it's not the biggest deal in the world and that for a newbie watching it for the first time in the widescreen format, it won't matter one bit.


The producers supposedly did a fantastic job preserving the presented images under the new ratio. Only interviews with people seem a bit odd as their heads are cut off in some instances.

Dr Griffin said:

The article linked below does state that the new high definition version will feature the same fidelity and framing as the 16mm negative. That would be a 4:3 image I would think.

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Unless it was shot in Super-16 which has an AR of 1.66:1

Unless it was shot in Super-16 which has an AR of 1.66:1

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I'd very much doubt that, although super 16 has been around since about 1970, it was only used for features (super 16 is the same 16mm stock, but single perf. & the soundtrack area is used so the picture is wider, so you could blow it up losing picture info). I was working on the telecine side of TV drama & documentary then, & super 16 started creeping in around 1991-1992 in the UK, & America were very slow to switch to widescreen TV's. If it is 16:9, then I'd think they've done an up & down pan & scan, which I'd think would look fine as it's mostly photos, but I'm sure it'll be 4x3. I've dug out my old DVD set & am going to re-watch it. It's a fantastic series about an amazing (& savage) time.

The Amazon description is quite premature.....

Format: Widescreen

Language: English

Subtitles: English

Number of discs: 1

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Presumably there are more than 1 discs in the set too.

Dr Griffin said:

The article linked below does state that the new high definition version will feature the same fidelity and framing as the 16mm negative. That would be a 4:3 image I would think.


http://www.channelguidemagblog.com/index.php/2015/04/09/restored-version-of-ken-burns-the-civil-war-will-air-on-pbs-around-series-25th-anniversary/

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Yes, I thought I had seen a reference to 16mm before, and indeed, the PBS site for the series also mentions 16mm in an article on the mastering for the DVD. So it looks like that mystery is solved, though it is strange that IMDb mentions 35mm incorrectly, as you would think that, for this work, a basic piece of info such as film gauge would be correct on IMDb by this point.

Robert Crawford said:

I think you've missed my point. The rebroadcast gives you a chance to evaluate whether the BD will have an altered image before its release date. If it does then you can decide not to buy it. That is my only point I'm making here, not whether the BD should be 1.33 or 1.85.

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Ah, I see where you are coming from, Robert.

Ronald Epstein said:

Yes, I am aware of this.


However, based on the number of reviews I have read, most all reviewers agree that it's not the biggest deal in the world and that for a newbie watching it for the first time in the widescreen format, it won't matter one bit.


The producers supposedly did a fantastic job preserving the presented images under the new ratio. Only interviews with people seem a bit odd as their heads are cut off in some instances.

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Well, it may not be the 'biggest deal in the world' but it is still an important issue for some of us. I'm just glad I was able to pick up the dvd edition rather than the blu widescreen version.

I will surely pass on the Burn's blu ray if it alters the OAR.

Hal,


...and don't get me wrong. I am not condoning the practice of altering the original aspect ratio.


I am also not dismissing the concerns of many of you as to what was done with the BD of World At War.


However, for me, it's important that I have it on Blu-ray as I am projecting the image on a 118" screen and the DVD would look inferior.


And again, personally, based on the research I have done (and I did so knowing what was done), I don't think I am going to be bothered by the aspect ratio change. I would imagine those who have already seen this series would.