Problem: Listening to headphones and speakers ... simultaneously. (1 Viewer)

I have an Onkyo TXSR605 HT receiver running two Ohm Walsh 2 (front L&R), no center, Tannoy subwoofer and two ceiling mounted Triads. Inputs include Roku, Cablevision box, Sonos, Wii, Android computer also used for media. I use Zone 2 for remote speakers (apart from those in the Sonos system).


I have hearing loss and would like to use my Sennheiser headphones while my wife and the rest of the family continue to enjoy the speakers. Since the headphone jack on the Onkyo TXSR605 cuts off the speakers. I added speaker wires to the same Onkyo speaker jacks serving the Ohm Walsh 2s end ended them with a 3.5mm jack to serve the Sennheiser. The Sennheiser is wireless (Infrared) and has its own volume control.


Fine except that from time to time, a significant change in sound volume in a film or show will force the Onkyo to turn off. I suspected it was somehow related to the load (Doesn't happen at low speaker volumes). Removing the headphone wiring proved that, but I need headphones to hear properly.


Is there a good work around? This may have been answered elsewhere.


Thanks,


Jerry

I added speaker wires to the same Onkyo speaker jacks serving the Ohm Walsh 2s end ended them with a 3.5mm jack to serve the Sennheiser. ... Fine except that from time to time, a significant change in sound volume in a film or show will force the Onkyo to turn off.

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What you did was connect them in parallel which lowers the impedance the amp sees, as a result the receiver is periodically going into protect mode.



The most straightforward solution for you is to get a receiver with a zone-2 (or A/B) pre-out *and* processes digital input on zone-2. Then connect the zone-2 to a headphone amp, like this one: (There are more expensive options too.)

http://www.amazon.com/FiiO-E6-Portable-Headphone-Amplifier/dp/B005HJWWW8/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1428679888&sr=1-2&keywords=headphone+amplifier

The only problem is that a receiver that has zone-2 preouts and carries a digital signal tend to be in the upper mid line for each manufacturer. But if you're okay with throwing money at it, it'll be an easy solution.

Is the Zone 2 self-powered, or sent to another amp?

If another amp, you could simply install a line level splitter then either...

1. Self powered headphones (ie, wireless)
2. Headphone amp

If self-powered, going external power is the simplest solution.

With the 605, you'll need to analog connect all your sources.

First of all thanks for the speedy responses from Schan1269 and A.I.Anderson


Let's see if I understand my options. The Zone 2 is powered by the Onkyo and as indicated in my post was set up to send output directly to two pairs of 'remote' speakers.


I can't afford to throw the kind of money implied by the solution as described by A.I.Anderson (but thanks for mentioning and also for confirming why the receiver is going into protect mode).


Schan1269, A.I.Anderson - given that my Zone 2 already powers two pairs of speakers in my house (outside the 'theater' area), Could I put an A/B switch immediately external to the Zone 2 output and connected to 1. the headphones 2. the two pairs of speakers outside the theater area. I would add that I would not be simultaneously listening to the headphones while the 'remote' speakers are on so can I assume that the impedance issue that I created by wiring in parallel to the home theater is not relevant if I went this route?


To sum up

Zone 1 would be the home theater.

Zone 2 would link to the A/B switch and be manually flipped to either power the headphones or the two pairs of external speakers.


When watching TV in a family setting (speakers for others and headphone for me), Zone 1 and Zone 2 would be set in the remote to the same video sources and the A/B switch set to headphones.


If the above is feasible would I run into any issues with syncing the sound coming through the headphones on zone 2 with the video from zone 1?


I'm a newbie at this so i hope I've understood what I've read.


Thanks,

Jerry

To sum up

Zone 1 would be the home theater.

Zone 2 would link to the A/B switch and be manually flipped to either power the headphones or the two pairs of external speakers.

Click to expand...

That should work as long as you're getting the output on zone-2 that matches zone-1. Like both Sam and I mentioned, many receivers only output analog to zone-2, but if you're getting the signal there now, then great.


I was also worried about over-driving the headphones, but as long as you keep the signal down when you use zone-2 for headphones it should be okay. Be careful there though, the headphones will get very loud very quickly using receiver power.


A big "also" note - if I'm reading you correctly and you have two sets (four speakers) running from the zone-2, you are already overloading the receiver. It's no wonder adding the headphones tripped it, I'm amazed you had it working with just the four speakers. I suggest you wire the 4 in series instead of in parallel. It will produce lower volume, but will be much gentler on the receiver.

A.I.Anderson,


Re your last reply. No. I wasn't using Zone 2 with the headphones, only the two pairs of remote speakers; I had the headphones in parallel with the Zone 1 Home theater L&R front, my very simplistic reasoning being that whatever was playing on them would play on the headphones without any fiddling with remotes, etc. My forum responses have been to the good advice you gave about Zone 2, something I hadn't considered earlier. Both of those existing Zone 2 speaker pairs have separate Niles wall volume controls if that matters any. Have never had a reset on Zone 2 so assume now front ending with an A/B switch (with A to speakers and B to headphones) will be a non-event.


Will give the A/B switch a try and report back. (Thanks again.

If the AVR itself is powering Zone 2 now...

You have to change it to Zone 2 preouts to another amp...to use your headphones.

Both of those existing Zone 2 speaker pairs have separate Niles wall volume controls if that matters any.

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Aha, now it makes sense! Wall volume controls usually have adjustment to compensate for the lowered resistance.

schan1269 said:

If the AVR itself is powering Zone 2 now...

You have to change it to Zone 2 preouts to another amp...to use your headphones.

Click to expand...

Sam, his zone-2 is powered by the receiver, no pre-outs.

Al.Anderson said:

Aha, now it makes sense! Wall volume controls usually have adjustment to compensate for the lowered resistance.



Sam, his zone-2 is powered by the receiver, no pre-outs.

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Try looking up this AVR before you tell me it doesn't have preouts for Zone 2.

Trying to use the AVR to power headphones using speaker wires...

IS A RECIPE TO DESTROY EVERYTHING.

Al.Anderson said:

Aha, now it makes sense! Wall volume controls usually have adjustment to compensate for the lowered resistance.



Sam, his zone-2 is powered by the receiver, no pre-outs.

Click to expand...

Try looking up this AVR before you tell me it doesn't have preouts for Zone 2.

Trying to use the AVR to power headphones using speaker wires...

IS A RECIPE TO DESTROY EVERYTHING.

schan1269 said:

Try looking up this AVR before you tell me it doesn't have preouts for Zone 2.

Trying to use the AVR to power headphones using speaker wires...

IS A RECIPE TO DESTROY EVERYTHING.

Click to expand...

Of course I did. What I didn't notice was that it has both.


I disagree on the disaster part (although I recommended against it), but that's immaterial because with the line-outs he can just use an inexpensive headphone amp (an example of which I linked too earlier). The downside of course is the OP will have to go into setup mode every time he wants to swtich back and forth between headphones and powered zone-2 for his speakers.

There's always not overly expensive stuff like - http://www.amazon.com/Lepai-LP-2020A-Tripath-Class-T-Amplifier/dp/B0049P6OTI/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1428758782&sr=8-8&keywords=headphone+amplifier

PS - Jerry - welcome to the forum. How do you like your Ohm Speakers? In a secondary systems for 2-channel only (at least for now - I do have in-ceiling surrounds), I have Ohm Microwalsh Talls.

Here's a pic of the Ohms

I have had the Ohm Walsh 2's since they came out in the early eighties ('83?) and as I mentioned they serve well as the left and right speakers in my home theater. I bought a second used pair in the late nineties for about $300 the pair for one of my Sonos Zones (it has an older Onkyo (1998 vintage) powering them). To my tastes, they are still amazing speakers and the size of the 'sound stage' made the lack of a center channel speaker (no room for it aesthetically) moot.


I haven't kept up with Ohm line. What do you think of the micro Walsh Talls?

I really like the Ohms. Always liked their speakers since they first came out. Had a friend who had Ohm Fs. I have multiple systems and had the electronics but not settled on speakers in the spare system I posted a pic of above. If you look at the upper right of the photo you can see the door frame for the diagonally placed door for that room. I was going to get Magnepan MMGs but when I looked at the wall (and the other side of the room is no better as it has a bi-fold closet door diagonally placed and that clost goes under the stairs to the upstairs bonus/guest room) and got a small entertainment unit (I think it is about 48 inches wide). The sub is a Rel Strata III which I just use the high level connection (Neutrik Speakon connected to the amp which is behind the TV) and it's built in crossover so it just fills in the bass the mains don't reproduce. Someone posted an ad on another forum local for me for the lightly used speakers as I was about to close on the current house and I jumped on the deal as they are perfect for a small bedroom especially with the sub. I dragged out the RTA to re-adjust the sub volume the other day and moved the speakers several inches forward.

To Schan1269 and A.I.Anderson,


Please recall that I am a newbie for anything beyond attaching cables and speaker wires (which is how I got into the headphone protection mode loop). The following is a picture of the rear panel of the Onkyo TX-SR605. It shows re Zone 2, RCA jacks for Zone 2 as well as the speaker connections. The only mention of pre-out in the manual is for the subwoofer.





That all said, what is the recommended solution? I'm not sure I fully understand but are also saying that putting an A/B switch on the speaker wires so that when the switch is thrown to headphones on Zone 2 is also a bad thing to do? These are the headphones btw: http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-Set830-TV-Assistive-Listening/dp/B002LZUYE4/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1428766452&sr=8-15&keywords=sennheiser+tv+headphones

PS - that cheapo amp is just an example of stuff at low price points. Probably something like http://www.amazon.com/Audiophile-headphone-amplifier-quality-parts-Altoids/dp/B00GPV7AH4/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1428766432&sr=8-13&keywords=headphone+amp


is something that may suit your needs better as it has an input for your source (you may be able to for example split the output from the component you most often use for headphone listening with an adapter going into where they show the MP3 player in the pic) and has an output for the headphones.

Here's another thing that is not horribly expensive:


http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/50-6182

The only mention of pre-out in the manual is for the subwoofer.

Click to expand...

There's also a zone-2 line-out at #20 on the diagram, which for all intents and purposes is the same thing as a pre-out. I missed it because I'm not used to receiver's having both a regular powered output AND a line-out.

That all said, what is the recommended solution? I'm not sure I fully understand but are also saying that putting an A/B switch on the speaker wires so that when the switch is thrown to headphones on Zone 2 is also a bad thing to do?

Click to expand...

Sam is saying running the headphone off of the powered output ("zone-2 speakers") is a horrible thing; I'm saying it's not a good idea. (The powered output is too powerful for your headphones.)


You can connect a speaker amp (like the one I linked and also some of the other recommendations above) to #20. Problem is that you can only use one of the zone-2 line-out or the zone-2 powered output at the same time. So when you wanted to switch between zone-2 speaker and zone-headphones you'd have to go into the receiver set-up. That's not horrible, would take 5 minutes; but if you do it often it might wind up being a PITA.