The Pre-Dolby Digital 5.1 mixes list thread (1 Viewer)

Inspired somewhat by the mono-stereo remix thread, I felt interested in doing a list on all the movies mixed in 5.1 PRIOR to the release of Jurassic Park (when 5.1 digital sound went mainstream since AFAIK Batman Returns, Bram Stoker's Dracula, and Malcolm X were the ONLY Dolby Digital releases in 1992) in 1993. Yes they do exist and many have had their 70mm Dolby System 43 mixes preserved on one home video format or another.


Now caveats...


First, this is based largely off what I've read at in70mm.com's list of blow-ups and that place is far from the most accurate out there (they've also reported their own share of self-contradictory information) so if there are mistakes let me know.


Second, there is the case of the short lived Cinema Digital Sound format. In this case, films that were mixed in 5.1 Six-track Dolby alongside the CDS mix are included, whereas films that were just CDS only are not. Furthermore, not all CDS mixes, case in point Edward Scissorhands, were stereo surround originally


Third, due to it being a 3.0 film that used QS decoding to create the extra rear channels, I'm omitting Tommy, which is technically the first SS film albeit without true 5.0 sound reproduction.


Fourth, I've elected to include 1993 here due to it being the last year where 5.1 non-digital Dolby mixes were fairly widespread (however if the film DID have a digital mix like Last Action Hero and Gettysburg its omitted).


So with that out of the way...


1978

Superman the Movie (A couple prints of this were done as a test to demonstrate if the system would work, extensively remixed in 2000)


1979

Apocalypse Now


1980

The Jazz Singer (Anchor Bay remixed into 6.1)


1981

Dragonslayer (also in Vistasonic)

Superman II


1982

Pink Floyd: The Wall


1984

Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

Supergirl


1985

Explorers


1986

Top Gun (the old laserdisc and NA dvd include the original 5.1 mix, Collectors edition on contain a new 6.1 version)


1987

The Untouchables (unconfirmed)


1988

Who Framed Roger Rabbit? (unconfirmed)

Willow (Unconfirmed)


1989

Black Rain (unconfirmed)

Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

Star Trek V: The Final Frontier (unconfirmed, collector's edition dvd is a remix)

Back to the Future Part II (unconfirmed)


1990


Dick Tracy

Days of Thunder

The Hunt for Red October

Back to the Future Part III (unconfirmed)

Die Hard 2 (unconfirmed)

Total Recall (unconfirmed)


1991


The Doors (old non-anamorphic dvd has this mix)

Hook

The Rocketeer (unconfirmed)

Terminator 2: Judgment Day (1997 dvd has this mix)

Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (soundtrack was later reencoded into Dolby Digital for a test)

Beauty and the Beast (unconfirmed)


1992


Alien3

Lethal Weapon 3 (unconfirmed)

Shining Through

The Last of the Mohicans (unconfirmed)

Aladdin (unconfirmed)

Patriot Games (unconfirmed)



1993 (this was a transition year as Sony would not support Dolby Digital on a regular basis for another year)


Cliffhanger

Geronimo An American Legend

In The Line of Fire

Short Cuts

For DRAGONSLAYER you mention something called VistaSonic. Never heard of this. What is it?

Jim*Tod said:

For DRAGONSLAYER you mention something called VistaSonic. Never heard of this. What is it?

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4-track discrete optical sound format developed by Paramount as a competitor to Dolby Surround. It was only used on Dragonslayer and Popeye.

OK..... I did remember POPEYE having a unique sound process and one which I believe was somewhat problematic. Thanks for the info.

Joseph Losey's "Don Giovanni" (1979)

That was actually the first movie in 5.1 for general release. The soundtrack was recently restored and refined by the original sound engineers from the 16 track masters for video release.

(AFAIK Batman Returns, Bram Stoker's Dracula, and Malcolm X were the ONLY Dolby Digital releases in 1992)

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There were other titles released in 1992 in Dolby Digital besides the ones you cited above, including:

Aladdin
The Bodyguard
Honey, I Blew Up The Kid

The Mighty Ducks

Pure Country
Toys
Under Siege

First, this is based largely off what I've read at in70mm.com's list of blow-ups and that place is far from the most accurate out there (they've also reported their own share of self-contradictory information) so if there are mistakes let me know.

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As the co-author of the 70mm blow-up listing at In70mm.com you referenced, and since you believe that resource is "far from the most accurate," how' bout you tell me what resource is more accurate. Better yet, why not point out any of the errors you claim to have found? I'll have them corrected if you can provide decent evidence/proof.

And what is your source of the "unconfirmed" claims (since none of those titles are claimed to be "pre-digital-sound era 5.1 mixes" in my In70mm listings)?

So let me see if I am understanding what this list is. Is it basically a list of films which had 70mm 6-track stereo with split surrounds?

Superman II didn't have split surrounds.

FanboyZ said:

Superman II didn't have split surrounds.

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It did, according to Dolby Labs' records from that era. What's your source(s) it didn't?

It would also be nice if Lord Dalek, whoever he/she is, would chime back in, as requested.

Mark-P said:

So let me see if I am understanding what this list is. Is it basically a list of films which had 70mm 6-track stereo with split surrounds?

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Pre-Digital Dolby surround

The 70mm films had 6 separate magnetic Dolby(R) tracks, while most films (35mm) had Dolby(R) Stereo which derived a surround channel from a matrix decoder in the cinema processor. You see less and less of these original mixes on home video releases, and the decoders are disappearing from pre/pros and AVRs.

Dr Griffin said:

The 70mm films had 6 separate magnetic Dolby(R) tracks, while most films (35mm) had Dolby(R) Stereo which derived a surround channel from a matrix decoder in the cinema processor. You see less and less of these original mixes on home video releases, and the decoders are disappearing from pre/pros and AVRs.

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I would certainly hope that Dolby Pro-logic is not disappearing from AVR's. There are tons of movies and TV shows that only exist in 2-channel Dolby surround. Can you imagine buying a receiver and not being able to decode Dolby Surround?

Thank you very much for all this information -- it was all news to me®

Mark-P said:

I would certainly hope that Dolby Pro-logic is not disappearing from AVR's. There are tons of movies and TV shows that only exist in 2-channel Dolby surround. Can you imagine buying a receiver and not being able to decode Dolby Surround?

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Dolby wants to do away with ProLogic and have everything processed and repurposed through the Atmos decoder moving forward. If you buy another AVR with Atmos but still only have a 5.1 setup, there will probably be very little difference. I will still hang onto those older AVRs and pre/pros.

It would be nice if Lord Dalek would chime back in and answer my questions. You out there, Lord?

Regarding The Untouchables, from the Theater Alignment Program letter at In70mm.com I found it interesting that the aspect ratio remained 2.35:1 on the 70mm prints. The sound is a little confusing, was the film a 5.1 mix with L,C,R , "boom channels" using either the Re and Le or subwoofer, and surrounds ( that were mono I am guessing). Any clarification?



Addition: The review at Blu-ray.com states The Untouchables had a 70mm 4.1 mix.

Lord Dalek said:

1978

Superman the Movie (A couple prints of this were done as a test to demonstrate if the system would work, extensively remixed in 2000)

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I experienced one of those prints at the Sack 57 theater in Boston. And I mean experienced. I had already seen the film twice in 35mm scope and very nice stereo sound. But nothing prepared me for what I was about to hear. Those opening credits built up and up in sound until the surrounds (the right one first) heralded the whoosh sound of the "S" shield and John Williams score hit it's crescendo. I wouldn't hear anything quite like it again until Jurassic Park with it's DTS intro (and of course, the T-Rex).

Dr Griffin said:

Regarding The Untouchables, from the Theater Alignment Program letter at In70mm.com I found it interesting that the aspect ratio remained 2.35:1 on the 70mm prints. The sound is a little confusing, was the film a 5.1 mix with L,C,R , "boom channels" using either the Re and Le or subwoofer, and surrounds ( that were mono I am guessing). Any clarification?

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Where's the confusion? You're obviously familiar with In70mm.com so why not simply look up "The Untouchables" on the 1987 page of their 70mm blow-up database? The entry there addresses both the film's image and sound formats. (I'm not being snarky; just curious why you wouldn't have checked that page.) Anyway, yes "The Untouchables" was printed with larger frame lines (i.e. a slight letterbox) to preserve the full aspect ratio of its 35mm source, and the audio was Left, Center, Right, plus boom content on tracks 2 and 4 and surround content on track 6, which was the most common track layout of 70mm releases during that era.

I'm more curious to know why Lord Dalek classifies "The Untouchables" as an unconfirmed 5.1 mix. But he/she seems to have take a vacation from this discussion, so we may never know.