No center speaker or a very slim one (1 Viewer)

I am new to Home Theatre stuff.


Yesterday I bought an Onkyo tx sr608 receiver and a B & W 10 inch active subwoofer (both second hand). Today I hooked them up together with my 20 year old B & W 600 i bookshelf speakers and I enjoyed the new sound it created.


Then I added the Philips surrounds (THX certified but only 15 watts) that are still on the wall from our former television. That also sounded quite allright. I enjoyed my Super Audio CD Dark side of the moon from Pink Floyd.


But our new television though (Samsung 48 inch 3D LED tv) doesn't have a place underneath for a center speaker (it isn't mounted on the wall but standing on a cabinet). At the moment I have my amp configured with NO Center, but I am wondering if adding a center might give me more enoyment.

But like I said our tv is standing on a cabinet and the only girlfriend-accepted-way to add a center is to place it behind the tv so that it fires just underneath the tv through the holes of the mount. And then there's is also a Xbox 360 Kinetics sensor blocking the audio.


Could I use my tv's speaker as center? If so, how could I do that. The manual of the televsision didn't give me an answer.


Does any of you people know center speaker that are only 6 cm's broad? I was thinking of buying a Cambridge Audio Minx MIni 22 for a center.


Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Your 608 doesn't have preouts(the Onkyo 70X do) so you can't use the TV, even if it offered the ability.

I would put the TV on a riser. You "might" find a big enough speaker to just sit the TV on, but ever since Samsung came up with that ridiculous stand design...

kareldejong said:

... But our new television though (Samsung 48 inch 3D LED tv) doesn't have a place underneath for a center speaker (it isn't mounted on the wall but standing on a cabinet). At the moment I have my amp configured with NO Center, but I am wondering if adding a center might give me more enoyment.

But like I said our tv is standing on a cabinet and the only girlfriend-accepted-way to add a center is to place it behind the tv so that it fires just underneath the tv through the holes of the mount. And then there's is also a Xbox 360 Kinetics sensor blocking the audio.


Could I use my tv's speaker as center? If so, how could I do that. The manual of the televsision didn't give me an answer.


Does any of you people know center speaker that are only 6 cm's broad? I was thinking of buying a Cambridge Audio Minx MIni 22 for a center.


Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Click to expand...

Well, I used to do one of the things you suggested. Back in the Days of Olde, Dolby Surround (not Pro Logic), the center was phantom. With Dolby Pro Logic, you had Active Matrix processing to direct dialog and sound FX to a center, so I cheated with my big box TV (Toshiba 27" tube), taking Center pre-out from the AVR. Then the TV was augmented with powered speakers fed off the TV (little ones). Later I added Bose 201s.


Problem was this solution was overrun by the technology. With Dolby PL II(x), and later Dolby Digital, the bandwidth of what is directed to the center slipped quickly from limited (1000Hz to 3000Hz if memory serves) to full scale. Even a full-sounding big box TV today wouldn't be up to the job in the day of DVD, let alone Blu-Ray, audio formats.A flat screen doesn't stand a chance.


Point being: your dilemma doesn't have an easy solution. For movies and 5.1 mix music, I believe you truly want a Center speaker that is at least comparable to the Mains. Any half-way compromise will sound like it, and even the design-conscious girlfriend may wonder out loud WTF the dialog sounds so anemic for.


LIke the man said, some kind of riser or other solution that will let you put a beefy Center will pay off. I wouldn't cheap out with a tiny speaker that will fit your current limitations. Find a solution and save up for a nice, muscular Center. How about a new stand that replaces the current cabinet?


Just my two cents.

Do you have a matching (timbre matched) center already to go with your B&W speakers? Mixing and matching brands is a bad idea since they may sound differently. You want a sound in the left and right to be the same as the center.


Would it be acceptable to put the speaker on top of the TV? See my picture below - The speaker is on a shelf that is actually mounted on the TV.

Thanks for your suggestions. I think I am gonna try a Canton CD 50 center first. That center is about 8 cm thick, so i f I lay it underneath/behind the TV, raise the mount of the TV about 2 cm's and put the Kinetic Sensor away (only to place it in front when the childeren want to game, it could fire it's sound from underneath the TV. Okay it isn't a B & W center but only the B & W VM1 could serve this purpose and I am not sure how important it really is to have a center of the same brand as the front speakers. Any other suggestions for a very slim center speaker.


Too bad I can't use my TV's speakers for center purposes. I was hoping the Audio Return Channel option of HDMI could help me out.


Changing the cabinet isn't an option as we bought this one only a month ago and mounting the centre on top of the TV isn't accepted by the girlfriend either


Thanks again for your suggestions.

The TV frame and stand aren't designed to handle extra weight, so I'd be wary of a shelf mounted to the top of the TV. (I may be misunderstanding how that shelf is attached.)

The reason you want a Center channel that is comparable to the Mains (doesn't always have to be the same brand, though some brands will surely design their speakers to match/complement each other), is so that when sounds travel left to right, you don't hear the sound CHANGE as it passes through the center channel.

That and, what i was describing, with modern audio tracks, the surrounds and center are no longer bandwidth-limited. They are full-spectrum channels and need a speaker capable of at least 90Hz to 18kHz reproduction. Having satisfying fidelity is a matter of your taste, so frankly if you're not disappointed in that speaker you're trying, then you've succeeded. (There are audiophiles on forums who will argue to the death that HT fidelity is an absolute of accurate reproduction. A choice to use a smaller Center will grate on them like robot fingernails on a blackboard.)

It's a matter of your intended use. I listen to music in 2.0 format almost entirely, so my Center is used for movies, etc., where 95% of the dialog resides, as well as sound FX.

(Disclosure: I'm not researching your equipment, it's up to you to decide if your choices suit your tastes. If you want me to comment on the specs, please share them here. Thanks.)

Another option is to run your rig in "phantom mode" and toe your front speakers in. It can work very well (I did with Maggies), but the sweet spot tends to be a bit narrow. Worth a shot to save some time and $

ChromeJob said:

The TV frame and stand aren't designed to handle extra weight, so I'd be wary of a shelf mounted to the top of the TV. (I may be misunderstanding how that shelf is attached.)

Click to expand...

The shelf is attached on rails that are fastened to the wall mounting area on the back of the TV. It is also braced on the back of the stand which lessons the load on the TV. It is very secure and has been used by other folks with success.


Karel,


If you are only looking for confirmation of what you want to do, you probably won't find it here. Our mission is to create the most realistic home theater experience possible (at any budget). Mixing speakers or using your TV for the center are 2 things that are a detriment to that goal. However, it is YOUR system and only you have to be happy with it. Just be aware of the issues so you are not wasting your money.


Good luck.

It is possible to use a phantom center channel. I did this myself with Magnepan speakers and had good results. You just need to toe in the fronts appropriately. It does present a somewhat narrow sweet spot, but it is worth trying to save some time and $.

I can't see why you couldn't use a center channel TV shelf or a TV riser to get enough room for the center speaker. It seems like this would be the better way to go if you're wanting it to sound the best it can.

A riser could simply be a piece of wood. One of my bedroom sets is accompanied by a Boston Acoustics TVee25. The stand for the TV barely leaves 3".

The riser?

A no longer used 1.5" rimmed 12x15 cookie sheet.

To match the TV stand itself, I rattle canned the cookie sheet.

Sits on the dresser in the bedroom. Nobody that has looked has thought the cookie sheet was anything but part of the TV stand. Of course, the soundbar is all anybody pays attention to...

A phantom center works in a more limited seating area. I have a 4.1 system (basically a guest room) and when I use it there is no problem as I'm the only one. I have 20 year old B&W P6s in another system (pic below). There was no matching center made. Have a CDM center which is fine (I owned a CC6 center many moons ago when I had the speakers in another house in another room and that was good too and not overly big). Was going to sell the 3 B&Ws (just for a change) but I have so many systems and it doesn't see tons of use so I ordered a wider bridge for the furniture (pic below) and am going to move the 55 inch TV to the guest room and move the 50 inch TV to the below system (it will fit perfectly and I'll only be a bit over 7 feet away and only have to move the speakers a couple of inches). I'm going to make a center channel stand from one of the old shelves and take the old white B&W LM-1s (which probably could work as a center too for you - http://sanantonio.craigslist.org/ele/4927464793.html and they have an integrated bracket/stand) from my office as side surrounds on stands and use the in-ceiling speakers I have for Atmos. The CC6 specs are here - http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_3_2/v3n2c.html


View attachment 17706

Here's a CC6 center channel - http://www.tmraudio.com/product/bw-cc6-center-channel-speaker

This is a pic of the basement in my old house with LM-1s mounted on their integrated brackets for height channels.

schan1269 said:

A riser could simply be a piece of wood. One of my bedroom sets is accompanied by a Boston Acoustics TVee25. The stand for the TV barely leaves 3".

The riser?

A no longer used 1.5" rimmed 12x15 cookie sheet.

To match the TV stand itself, I rattle canned the cookie sheet.

Sits on the dresser in the bedroom. Nobody that has looked has thought the cookie sheet was anything but part of the TV stand. Of course, the soundbar is all anybody pays attention to...

Click to expand...

That's an awesome idea...never would have thought about that.

TV Risers are a great idea if you need to make room for a center. They are not difficult to make and if you want to buy one there's tons of choices - e.g.

http://www.amazon.com/OFC-Express-Stand-Shaker-Cherry/dp/B0035LEQW4/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1426537482&sr=8-12&keywords=tv+riser