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Issues With Subwoofer. Any Advise Appreciated (2 Viewers)

jksman

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Hey Guys. New member here.

I tried to search online a resolution to my problem, but was unsuccessful so I came here.

For the last two years I've had a Tangent EvoE8 subwoofer and a Pinnacle 9 speaker soundbar hooked up to my Yamaha RX-V573 receiver. I've had no major issues over this time, except with for the rare occurrence where watching a movie high bass audio would cause my subwoofer to sound like thunder (and I would generally just turn down the volume on the unit at this time).

The other day I turned on my tv and noticed the audio sounded different and discovered there was nothing coming through the subwoofer. I shut off the receiver unplugged everything, then retried and again there was nothing coming through the subwoofer. In the receiver menu I turned on the test tone, and the L/C/R channels worked but there was nothing registering for the SW channel. On the Back of the subwoofer you can turn on/off and it has a green light when on, all of these seemed to be working, so it was receiving power. This made me think it also could be something wrong with the receiver? However, when I tried to connect my iPhone up to the subwoofer again there was zero sound/indication the subwoofer is working.

Wondering if anyone has any ideas to test/verify/fix what the problem may be. Where I live there is only a Future Shop and a local audio dealer. Neither of which sell Tangent, seemed overly helpful when I called, and both were going to charge a $50+ just to look at the unit. So before I bring in to get fixed (if it's even worth getting fixed) i'd like to pinpoint what the problem may be.

Thanks people
 

Robert_J

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The power light comes on but still no sound. That sounds like the amp is OK and it may be a driver issue. Gently press the cone down and listen for any scratching. That could be a sign that your voice coil has overheated or you bottomed it out. If it moves without noise, then remove the driver and test the resistance of the driver with a multi-meter. Don't have one? Use a 9v batter and touch it to the terminals to see if the driver moves. No resistance or the driver doesn't move then you have a broken tinsel lead.

the rare occurrence where watching a movie high bass audio would cause my subwoofer to sound like thunder
That is a sign you are asking too much from your sub.


Let us know how these tests turn out.
 

jksman

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Right on, that sounds like I can give that a try. Thanks for the advise and I'll let you know how it turns out.


The power light comes on because I have it plugged into the wall outlet, so it's still receiving power.
 

Robert_J

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Usually if you fry the amp, it will not light up even if you plug it into the wall. That's why I am focusing on the driver.
 

ChromeJob

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How old is the sub? I've read others claim that a sub 10 years old or more is likely to give out ... they get a lot of heavy use depending upon the content, I guess.
 

jksman

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Sub is 3 years old. Really only been using for 2.

And really only using for movies and television, not at a high output.


The only things I can think of to being my fault is like I mentioned above, pushing the bass too much causing it to make those thunder like noises (and when this happened I'd turn down the volume on the back of the sub). And also, the sub was always on. When I would turn off the receiver/TV the sub would still remain on, with no audio input, but still on. Maybe this could have burnt something out?
 

ChromeJob

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Check your paperwork, perhaps some components are still under warranty. (E.g. Hsu Research warranties the woofer 7 years, the electronics 2 years.) Definitely check that before you open it up and examine internal components. ;)


Added: Oh. Their site says 2 years. Maybe you should call them anyway ... if you've only used it for 2 years, it should not have died on you. (But I don't know the brand.)
 

Robert_J

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jksman said:
Sub is 3 years old. Really only been using for 2.

And really only using for movies and television, not at a high output.


The only things I can think of to being my fault is like I mentioned above, pushing the bass too much causing it to make those thunder like noises (and when this happened I'd turn down the volume on the back of the sub). And also, the sub was always on. When I would turn off the receiver/TV the sub would still remain on, with no audio input, but still on. Maybe this could have burnt something out?
Since it is a sealed box, you weren't hearing port chuffing. It was either heavy distortion or more likely, the voice coil slamming into the back plate of the magnet. Take an aluminum can and lightly step on it. The sides wrinkle a little. That's what happens when you slam the voice coil into the backplate time after time after time. If you say you only did it once or twice, remember that if you hear that noise for 1 second, that's 40 times if it was a 40hz signal.


Once the voice coil slams like thing things get loose. I've seen the entire coil of wire separate from the former. The coil will distort and rub against the top plate. That rubs off the lacquer causing it to short out. Or you could have pushed it to max excursion and just pulled a tinsel lead loose from the coil. There is no easy repair for that though.


Leaving the amp on all of the time doesn't hurt anything. My sub amp stays on all of the time also because it has no auto off function. It's a pro-audio amp.
 

Robert_J

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ChromeJob said:
How old is the sub? I've read others claim that a sub 10 years old or more is likely to give out ... they get a lot of heavy use depending upon the content, I guess.
If a sub is not pushed past its mechanical limits and the foam surround doesn't deteriorate then it will last for decades. After refoaming my Earthquake 15's, they played like the day I bought them in 1991.
 

ChromeJob

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Hrm. A review of the NXG BAS-500, the reviewer said he couldnt get it to distort,[1] due to good circuitry. This makes me wonder what's up with this brand then.


[1]

..."Let's just get this over with," I thought to myself as I loaded the Terminator: Salvation Blu-ray. I figured the NX-BAS-500 would choke on this movie's super-dynamic soundtrack, especially in the scene involving the attack of giant robot, then robo-motorcycles chasing a jumbo tow truck, then a couple of A-10s attacking a robo-hovercraft. I calibrated my system (Sunfire CRM-2 left, center, and right speakers with CRM-2BIP surrounds) then turned up the sub an additional +2 dB.

But the NX-BAS-500 not only didn't choke, it sounded great. Even when I pushed the volume up to the limits of my 150-watt-per-channel AudioControl Savoy amp, I heard no distortion, no compression, and no port noise from the NX-BAS-500.

"OK, let's take it up a notch," I thought, loading Star Wars, Episode II: Attack of the Clones. The opening scene is one of the toughest bass tests in moviedom, beginning with loads of bottom-octave (20-40 Hz) energy from a passing spaceship, then intense second-octave (40-80 Hz) energy when the ship explodes. No problem for the NX-BAS-500....


See also


[2]

The good points certainly outweigh the bad points though. The limiter is a classic example; I don't recall a single time that either the driver or port made any disturbing sounds. Even when pushed it seemed intent on remaining composed. Considering some of the material I threw at it that's a noteworthy accomplishment.


[3]


Not critiquing, I'm pretty naive about subs,... just wondering ... how easy is it to do this kind of damage to good quality subs?
 

schan1269

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ChromeJob said:
Hrm. A review of the NXG BAS-500, the reviewer said he couldnt get it to distort, due to good circuitry. This makes me wonder what's up with this brand then.
Not critiquing, I'm pretty naive about subs,... just wondering ... how easy is it to do this kind of damage to good quality subs?

Regardless of cost/build quality, over driving kills every driver.
 

jksman

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So I done the cone test, gently pushing into it, there was no scratching, no noice. Felt like it had a normal spring back. I have not tested the driver however. From what it's sounding like it, seems as it may be the driver.

I don't know too much about the tangent brand, I actually purchased online as I was advised it was a very good deal. I'm located in Canada and nowhere near me do they service this brand (and as stated I'm over the two year warrenty anyway).

I guess I'll have to decide on replacing the driver, if that is truly the issue. And if it's worth it in that case. Would this be a tangent specific part? Because if so, I imagine may end up being cheaper to replace with a new /better sub.
 

ArmSC

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It it's the driver you have three options that I see.
  1. Get a new factory unit if you can. This will make it sound like it did when you got it. Probably the "best option" if you can get a replacement part from them.
  2. Get a replacement driver different than the factory driver. You need to do some research to try to match it up to the enclosure/amp the best you can. If done right I've seen good results for not a lot of money. $50-70 for a decent driver and you're in business. You can spend over a $100 and a lot of the time you're still going to be ahead of the game depending on cost of a whole new sub.
  3. Get a whole new sub. Easiest option because you know it will work and you could probably get an upgrade in the process. The question is budget.
 

jksman

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I am doubtful that I will be able to get a replacement part direct from Tangent. Not saying it won't happen, I have a feeling it will not pan out.


Replacing the driver from another factory sounds like the best option (assuming that it is a driver issue). Before I look into that I will definitely open it up to check if a lead fell off (again assuming that is something I am capable of doing). I've never opened up a sub or a speaker so not sure what I am looking for, but if something fell off I guess it would be semi-obvious.


Not to segway from the initial theme of this topic. But I've always been curious if i would get noticeably better results by using the same receiver (Yamaha RX-V573), the Pinnacle sound bar, sub and then adding surround speakers. It's not a big area, so would i get that much more benefit from the rear speakers? The reason I ask is, if I upgrade and get a new sub, I'll likely talk myself into rear speakers.
 

Robert_J

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Replacing the driver from another factory sounds like the best option (assuming that it is a driver issue). Before I look into that I will definitely open it up to check if a lead fell off (again assuming that is something I am capable of doing). I've never opened up a sub or a speaker so not sure what I am looking for, but if something fell off I guess it would be semi-obvious.
Like Sam said, if the lead fell off then you will see it. There should be 2 wires connecting the actual driver to the amp. I think the Tangent site said this was a cast frame driver so there are probably push terminals. They are the silver things in the picture below.

E8v4-001.jpg



The next step is to check the tinsel from the terminal to the coil. That's the 2 wires shown below. Some are attached to the spider in the picture below while others are free floating.

19272d1265918299-dead-mal-x-18-img_0090.jpg



Past the tinsel leads, you really can't see anything else. If the wire leading down to the coil is broken or burned through then the driver is dead.

Klasco-p1-Voice-Coil.jpg
 

jksman

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Thanks a lot Robert. That's exactly what I need. I'll take a look this evening and post some pictures of my findings. Then perhaps I'll uncover the issue.
 

ChromeJob

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jksman, on 13 Mar 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:
Not to segway from the initial theme of this topic. But I've always been curious if i would get noticeably better results by using the same receiver (Yamaha RX-V573), the Pinnacle sound bar, sub and then adding surround speakers. It's not a big area, so would i get that much more benefit from the rear speakers? The reason I ask is, if I upgrade and get a new sub, I'll likely talk myself into rear speakers.

Rear speakers? For movies, yes, modern DD, DTS, and BD formats make liberal use of rear channels.

For music, not so much, unless you like Yamaha's various DSP treatments.
 

schan1269

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ChromeJob said:
Rear speakers? For movies, yes, modern DD, DTS, and BD formats make liberal use of rear channels.

For music, not so much, unless you like Yamaha's various DSP treatments.
Not heard DVD-A, SACD nor BD-A apparently...
 

Mike Frezon

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Right. It depends on if you plan on listening to multi-channel music.


I am a big fan of aggressive multi-channel music mixes.
 

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