Rio Bravo versus El Dorado (2 Viewers)

Just posted a poll to gather which film the membership thinks is a better film, Rio Bravo or El Dorado?

Yup, no doubt Howard Hawks went to the well twice after Rio Bravo. But who could blame him, as El Dorado is (arguably) a stronger film than Rio Bravo. Perhaps he was thinking the third in the trilogy would be the strongest yet (but something we all know now did not happen). Chisum and Cahill were just poorly produced, poorly directed vehicles. I've always felt that these two films almost represented a return to B westerns for Duke. Luckily he finished his distinguished career with one of the greatest westerns ever...The Shootist!

jim_falconer said:

Yup, no doubt Howard Hawks went to the well twice after Rio Bravo. But who could blame him, as El Dorado is (arguably) a stronger film than Rio Bravo. Perhaps he was thinking the third in the trilogy would be the strongest yet (but something we all know now did not happen). Chisum and Cahill were just poorly produced, poorly directed vehicles. I've always felt that these two films almost represented a return to B westerns for Duke. Luckily he finished his distinguished career with one of the greatest westerns ever...The Shootist!

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Arguably, as I think Rio Bravo is a superior film with better acting in it.

Robert Crawford said:

Arguably, as I think Rio Bravo is a superior film with better acting in it.

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I've always liked El Dorado better myself, although that's probably the minority view. I'm a big Ricky Nelson music fan, but never thought very much of his performance in Rio Bravo. Anyway, they're both very good films and, heck, I even like Rio Lobo.

John Hermes said:

I've always liked El Dorado better myself, although that's probably the minority view. I'm a big Ricky Nelson music fan, but never thought very much of his performance in Rio Bravo. Anyway, they're both very good films and, heck, I even like Rio Lobo.

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Elvis made a mistake turning down that role.

MCCLOUD said:

Great discussion concerning my favorite actor John Wayne! Rio Lobo is actually my all time favorite Western and probably 2nd all-time favorite movie! Rio Lobo is different from Rio Bravo and El Dorado in my opinion. Only the last 20 minutes or so is very similar with the hold up in the jail and ending prisoner exchange and it is not exactly the same. The first 30 minutes takes place during the Civil War and is nothing like Rio Bravo or El Dorado. Following this the movie is basically different from Rio Bravo and El Dorado until the last 20 minutes or so with the jail and the prisoner exchange. Rio Lobo, Rio Bravo, and El Dorado are all favorites of mine and I would give all of them a 10 on a 1 to 10 scale with 10 being the highest rating! However, Rio Lobo is my favorite! I am glad John Wayne made all of them!


GOD BLESS!


ROBERT

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It just goes to show you that film appreciation is a very subjective thing.

Robert Crawford said:

It just goes to show you that film appreciation is a very subjective thing.

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Indeed, and I think Chisum is a marvellous film! I'm surprised to find some people think so little of it! I'll probably buy that German Blu-ray disc before long.

Robert Crawford said:

Arguably, as I think Rio Bravo is a superior film with better acting in it.

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Fair enough Robert...here's a comparison of the two films, and why I think El Dorado is superior:

Costars:

Robert Michum vs Dean Martin - both fine actors, but the nod goes to Mitch
James Caan vs Ricky Nelson - this one is not even close. Big stretch believing Ricky Nelson as a fast shooting gun slinger
Arthur Hunnicutt vs Walter Brennan - this one goes to Brennan
Angie Dickinson vs Charlene Holt - Again, Angie gets the nod
Ed Asner vs John Russell - Asner gets the nod here, based on his part had more meat to it than Russell 's did.

So we're pretty even in costars, so now it comes down to really the most important aspect of the two films...storyline and direction. To me, Rio Bravo is a much slower paced, leisurely shot film. You could make yourself lunch during certain scenes, and upon your return not have missed much at all. Hawks stays with certain scenes far too long, especially after the point of the dialog has already been established. Examples would be Feathers rambling speeches to no one in particular, or Pedro trying to explain about why she did not catch the stage. A 2 hour and 20 minute film that really could have been better served at 1 hour and 45 minutes.

El Dorado is much tighter, and has way more action. And let's face it, as Duke was always fond of saying, people don't go to see him star in drawing room dramas.

I prefer El Dorado, but then I saw it at the cinema. I've only ever seen Rio Bravo on the telly. And the Blu-ray of El Dorado may be a wee bit over-scrubbed, but it does look very nice, whereas the Blu of Rio Bravo looks wrong. I can't quite put my finger on it, the picture looks busy & over saturated, something very wrong there.

That whole 'Do you remember this hat?' scene in El Dorado when James Caan shows up is great.

I can't say which one I like better, Rio Bravo or El Dorado. Both were rated with 10/10 in my collection.

When both films were screened on TV (in a period of about 20 years) we (Brother & Father) watched them every time and had such a good time.


Rio Lobo on the other hand I didn't see as many times as the other two. I like it less, but I rated it 8/10. So it is a good film nonetheless.

The Cowboys and Big Jake are Wayne's best films of the seventies!

jim_falconer said:

Fair enough Robert...here's a comparison of the two films, and why I think El Dorado is superior:

Costars:

Robert Michum vs Dean Martin - both fine actors, but the nod goes to Mitch
James Caan vs Ricky Nelson - this one is not even close. Big stretch believing Ricky Nelson as a fast shooting gun slinger
Arthur Hunnicutt vs Walter Brennan - this one goes to Brennan
Angie Dickinson vs Charlene Holt - Again, Angie gets the nod
Ed Asner vs John Russell - Asner gets the nod here, based on his part had more meat to it than Russell 's did.

So we're pretty even in costars, so now it comes down to really the most important aspect of the two films...storyline and direction. To me, Rio Bravo is a much slower paced, leisurely shot film. You could make yourself lunch during certain scenes, and upon your return not have missed much at all. Hawks stays with certain scenes far too long, especially after the point of the dialog has already been established. Examples would be Feathers rambling speeches to no one in particular, or Pedro trying to explain about why she did not catch the stage. A 2 hour and 20 minute film that really could have been better served at 1 hour and 45 minutes.

El Dorado is much tighter, and has way more action. And let's face it, as Duke was always fond of saying, people don't go to see him star in drawing room dramas.

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I don't necessary agree with your comments regarding the comparison of the casts, but I'll refrain from arguing my point as this thread about Cahill has been derailed enough.

On second thought, I decided to start another thread regarding this Rio Bravo versus El Dorado discussion. I'll be back to take up this argument again.

Robin9 said:

Indeed, and I think Chisum is a marvellous film! I'm surprised to find some people think so little of it! I'll probably buy that German Blu-ray disc before long.

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German Blu-ray?

I like Rio Bravo and El Dorado about the same. Ricky Nelson is the weak link in Rio Bravo but Walter Brennan more than makes up for it. I didn't know Presley was offered the Nelson role, that would have been interesting.

The transfer is better on El Dorado.

I have made some of these points before but, although Rio Bravo is the best by far, I prefer Rio Lobo to El Dorado. First, I think the pace of the movie is better timed. The civil war preface is very exciting, then it moves to an exciting saloon shootout where George Plimpton gets shot (see this great behind the scenes take on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUVM_DVpyGA), and the small town and the final trade off/shootout. Although James Caan is a very good actor, I found him wooded, stiff, and unlikable in El Dorado. Plus the whole knife expert thing doesn't work for me. In addition, there are some comedy elements in El Dorado that really work, and that is helped tremendously by Jack Elam who hands down was a much better actor than Arthur Hunnicutt, and very good at comedy. Third, I really like Christopher Mitchum. He was also in Big Jake, and I think he did really good support in Wayne films. Although I can't recall seeing him in anything else, he comes across as very likable and you feel you already know him. It's too bad he didn't find a good television vehicle. As for Jorge Rivero, who everyone pans, I thought he was ok, and the script uses his hammy hunk vibe to good effect when the gorgeous Jennifer O'Neill starts laughing after he says to her, "Kiss me before we die." Lastly, I saw Rio Lobo at a small town drive-in with my Dad on rerelease back in the 70s. I'll always remember watching it there. BTW: Jorge Rivero shows up in a Columbo episode, "A Matter of Honor," and the episode is practically an encyclopedia of actors of Latin origin from Wayne films. In addition to Rivero, there's Ricardo Montalban (The Train Robbers), A Matinez (The Cowboys), Emilio Fernandez (The War Wagon), Pedro Armendáriz Jr. (Chisum) (also the son of Pedro Armendáriz (from Three Godfathers)). I don't know if the casting was intentional.

mark brown said:

The Cowboys and Big Jake are Wayne's best films of the seventies!

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Couldn't agree more. The Cowboys should have been his final film as he hands over to a new generation. My favourite of his western films.

Keith Cobby said:

Couldn't agree more. The Cowboys should have been his final film as he hands over to a new generation. My favourite of his western films.

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You can't be serious with Duke still having The Shootist to make 3 years later. I love The Cowboys, and it deserves every accolade it receives (I actually just watched the BD again today). But to say this should have been his final film knowing he still had The Shootist in his repertoire is just wrong. The Shootist is not only Duke's best film of the 1970s, but maybe his greatest acting performance in his long 50-year career.

jim_falconer said:

You can't be serious with Duke still having The Shootist to make 3 years later. I love The Cowboys, and it deserves every accolade it receives (I actually just watched the BD again today). But to say this should have been his final film knowing he still had The Shootist in his repertoire is just wrong. The Shootist is not only Duke's best film of the 1970s, but maybe his greatest acting performance in his long 50-year career.

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It's all a matter of opinion, Jim.