Bryan Tuck
Screenwriter
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2002
- Messages
- 1,984
- Real Name
- Bryan Tuck
There was a thread for Blu-rays with missing original mono tracks, but I wanted to see if we could put together a list of Blu-rays in which dialogue, music, or effects have been dropped, significantly altered, or even added on the primary audio track.
For example, on the BD for The Last Starfighter, a specific music cue is conspicuously absent during the scene in which Beta first reveals his half-formed face. Not poorly mixed, not de-emphasized, just plain gone.
Another example would be The Dark Crystal, in which several instances of incidental dialogue have actually been added to the soundtrack. I guess it's possible that these lines were present in the 70mm mix, but I am confident that they were not in the theatrical 35mm mix.
A word on differences between 70mm and 35mm mixes: I'm sure others could comment more definitively on this, but from what I've read, it's always debatable whether or not a 6-track 70mm mix from the 70s or 80s should be considered "definitive," as often sound mixers would make some final adjustments to the 2-channel 35mm version and would then consider it to be the "final" mix. At any rate, if there is some question over that, I'll note it in the list.
Also, I think this list should be limited to tracks with significant subtractions from or additions to the actual audio elements. If it's just a basic remix, even with possibly a different balance of the elements, but with no noticeable missing or added dialogue, music, or effects, it doesn't count. Also, if the original mix (or something resembling it) is available on BD, I'll make a note of that as well.
I know this is kind of nit-picky, but it seems to happen quite a bit, and it constitutes a genuine alteration to a film on the "version of record," at least as far as the general public is concerned. And this is going to be mostly US releases, but if there are some significant problems on releases from other countries, we can definitely include those, too.
A final note: Films such as The Exorcist or the Star Wars films were given significant audio overhauls for their "Special Edition" releases. However, since the films have been so heavily altered both visually and aurally, they kind of go without saying, so I haven't included them. However, E.T. has been included, since the Blu-ray seems to primarily use the 2002 Special Edition mix on the otherwise original cut of the film.
Please feel free to correct any misinformation here.
------------------------------------------
AN AMERICAN TAIL - When Fievel meets the orphaned mice, two of them have completely different voices than in the original version (possibly an older dialogue element than was used for the final mix of the film). Additional sound effects, dialogue, and "walla" are added throughout. End credits music is edited differently ("Somewhere Out There" starts later, and the violin solo near the end is removed).
ANNIE (1982) - In the alley where Annie finds Sandy, Annie punches a boy multiple times in the stomach and he grunts. Grunts are missing on the Blu-ray.
BACK TO THE FUTURE - Doc's line when he first sees Marty ("You made it!") is apparently from a different audio take than in previous versions. On the VHS/laserdisc, he practically shouts the line; on the DVD/Blu-ray, it's more subdued. (This could possibly be a difference between the original 70mm and 35mm sound mixes).
BACK TO THE FUTURE PART II - Strickland's shotgun sounds like a different effect than in original mix.
A CHRISTMAS CAROL (1951) - During the scene between Mrs. Dilber and old Joe (Christmas Yet-To-Come), the audio drops completely out for about a second, removing part of Mrs. Dilber's line (the words "for reaching it out" are gone). The full line can faintly be heard on both commentary tracks.
CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (1980 SPECIAL EDITION) - In the opening scene, while the project leader is looking in the cockpit of the recovered plane, Laughlin's line "You! Listen to me, will ya?" is missing.
CONAN THE BARBARIAN (1982) - Missing choral elements in score during opening attack scene
THE DARK CRYSTAL - Extra dialogue in several places throughout. (Ex: The line, "Oh, it will make you young again, Sire," is extended to include "...and as Emperor you deserve it." Possibly heard in 70mm mix, or could be from an older dialogue element, but definitely not in the theatrical 35mm mix.)
E.T.: THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL - 7.1 track appears to be sourced primarily from the 2002 Special Edition, with added sound effects in certain spots (which now don't correspond to anything). Most noticeable is the altered sound design and different ADR during the first medical scene. 2.0 track on the BD appears to be the original mix.
ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK - In the 5.1 remix, the music drops out for a few seconds after Snake pulls the President off the train (about an hour in). Music has been added to the Broadway scene. Sound effects are missing in the last shot as Snake destroys the cassette. Original mix included on MGM BD, but Scream Factory's 2.0 track is a downmix of the 5.1.
GOLDFINGER - On the "original" mono track, the end credits music fades out before the final drum hit that ends the song. (This is a bit of a cheat, as the "primary" 5.1 track does play the song out.)
GREASE - 5.1 track sourced from the 1998 remix with numerous changes throughout, including awkward music edits and the addition of reverb and background vocals to some songs (some of which are out-of-sync with picture).
THE GREAT MUPPET CAPER - Some minor differences during "Happiness Hotel," lyrics added to "Night Life," Muppets' "checklist" scene scored differently, and most noticeably, Miss Piggy's trademark "Hi-yaaaah" as she crashes through the window and leaps off the motorcycle is missing. (I think these changes have been on every VHS, DVD, and Blu-ray since the 1993 VHS release).
HALLOWEEN (1978) - During first Loomis scene, extra thunderclaps and rain are added throughout. Original mix included on some BDs (mono track on 35th Anniversary Edition is a mislabeled downmix of the remix; corrected on box set version).
HALLOWEEN 4: THE RETURN OF MICHAEL MYERS - Several sound effects are missing. Thunderclaps during opening credits, door buzzer sound in following scene, among others.
THE HOBBIT (1977) - (DVD only) Numerous sound effects are inexplicably missing throughout. (This is another cheat, since it's only on DVD, but the error is so glaring, it's worth listing.) Recent "Deluxe" DVD edition has the same issue.
JAWS - New sound effects added throughout the film. Original mix included on BD.
THE LAST STARFIGHTER - Music cue during the reveal of Beta's half-formed face is completely missing (it can be heard on the commentary track). Music cue could have been missing in 70mm mix, but seems unlikely.
LEGEND (US VERSION) - Missing music cue after Darkness's line "Something troubles me." Rough sound editing during transition into following scene (could be reflecting the 70mm mix).
MAD MAX - On the 5.1 "Australian English" track, when Max starts dragging Johnny by his handcuffed ankle, some of Johnny's groans are heard a few seconds later than they were originally, and his line "Careful, my ankle! My foot, man!" is missing. "Original Theatrical Australian English Mono" track on MGM Blu-ray is apparently a downmix of the 5.1 remix. 2.0 track on Scream Factory BD is a stereo downmix of the 5.1 remix. It's unclear if the MGM SE DVD contains the actual original Australian mono, as Johnny's line is there, but some of the sound effects seem to be from the remix and others seem to be from the original.
PINOCCHIO - A couple of lines were missing from the song "Give a Little Whistle" on both the 5.1 and the "original" mono. Corrected on later pressings.
PSYCHO (1960) - Some newly recorded foley in certain scenes, particularly in the shower scene, and also in the basement scene near the end. Original mix included on BD.
ROCKY - Near the end, the piano cue at the end of the final round (during the lines "Ain't gonna be no rematch," "Don't want one.") is missing. Original mix included on BD.
STAR TREK - THE ORIGINAL SERIES (Ep. "The Devil in the Dark") - About 28 minutes in, as Kirk sees the Horta coming through the wall, a few seconds of music is missing on both the 7.1 and "original" mono tracks. (Ep. "The Menagerie, Part II") - When Pike has a vision of himself on Rigel 7, in front the castle, extra music is heard on the 7.1 track that wasn't there before. Music on the mono track is as it always was before.
STAR TREK III: THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK - As the Bird of Prey is flying away from the Genesis Planet, a loud "cracking" sound as part of the planet breaks away is missing, and has been since the DVD releases. The effect can be heard underneath the Nimoy/Bennett commentary, but not the Moore/Taylor commentary. (This could be another 35mm/70mm difference.)
SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE - New sound effects added throughout the film. Original mix included on theatrical version BD, though possibly incorrectly encoded.
THE TERMINATOR - New sound effects added throughout the film, and some music cues are mixed differently.
THE TIME MACHINE (1960) - When George stops in 1917, as he's looking at the dust on his clocks, the creak just before we see the mice is much quieter than it was before. (According to IMDB, there was a 4-track stereo mix for this film in addition to the mono, so the difference could date back to that.)
THE WIZARD OF OZ - Dorothy's stutter "Oh Tot- Oh Toto" is truncated on both the 5.1 and the "original" mono. (This was possibly an error in the original sound design, but the fix is still an alteration.)
YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE - Numerous sound affects are added throughout the film. Original mix included on BD.
For example, on the BD for The Last Starfighter, a specific music cue is conspicuously absent during the scene in which Beta first reveals his half-formed face. Not poorly mixed, not de-emphasized, just plain gone.
Another example would be The Dark Crystal, in which several instances of incidental dialogue have actually been added to the soundtrack. I guess it's possible that these lines were present in the 70mm mix, but I am confident that they were not in the theatrical 35mm mix.
A word on differences between 70mm and 35mm mixes: I'm sure others could comment more definitively on this, but from what I've read, it's always debatable whether or not a 6-track 70mm mix from the 70s or 80s should be considered "definitive," as often sound mixers would make some final adjustments to the 2-channel 35mm version and would then consider it to be the "final" mix. At any rate, if there is some question over that, I'll note it in the list.
Also, I think this list should be limited to tracks with significant subtractions from or additions to the actual audio elements. If it's just a basic remix, even with possibly a different balance of the elements, but with no noticeable missing or added dialogue, music, or effects, it doesn't count. Also, if the original mix (or something resembling it) is available on BD, I'll make a note of that as well.
I know this is kind of nit-picky, but it seems to happen quite a bit, and it constitutes a genuine alteration to a film on the "version of record," at least as far as the general public is concerned. And this is going to be mostly US releases, but if there are some significant problems on releases from other countries, we can definitely include those, too.
A final note: Films such as The Exorcist or the Star Wars films were given significant audio overhauls for their "Special Edition" releases. However, since the films have been so heavily altered both visually and aurally, they kind of go without saying, so I haven't included them. However, E.T. has been included, since the Blu-ray seems to primarily use the 2002 Special Edition mix on the otherwise original cut of the film.
Please feel free to correct any misinformation here.
------------------------------------------
AN AMERICAN TAIL - When Fievel meets the orphaned mice, two of them have completely different voices than in the original version (possibly an older dialogue element than was used for the final mix of the film). Additional sound effects, dialogue, and "walla" are added throughout. End credits music is edited differently ("Somewhere Out There" starts later, and the violin solo near the end is removed).
ANNIE (1982) - In the alley where Annie finds Sandy, Annie punches a boy multiple times in the stomach and he grunts. Grunts are missing on the Blu-ray.
BACK TO THE FUTURE - Doc's line when he first sees Marty ("You made it!") is apparently from a different audio take than in previous versions. On the VHS/laserdisc, he practically shouts the line; on the DVD/Blu-ray, it's more subdued. (This could possibly be a difference between the original 70mm and 35mm sound mixes).
BACK TO THE FUTURE PART II - Strickland's shotgun sounds like a different effect than in original mix.
A CHRISTMAS CAROL (1951) - During the scene between Mrs. Dilber and old Joe (Christmas Yet-To-Come), the audio drops completely out for about a second, removing part of Mrs. Dilber's line (the words "for reaching it out" are gone). The full line can faintly be heard on both commentary tracks.
CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND (1980 SPECIAL EDITION) - In the opening scene, while the project leader is looking in the cockpit of the recovered plane, Laughlin's line "You! Listen to me, will ya?" is missing.
CONAN THE BARBARIAN (1982) - Missing choral elements in score during opening attack scene
THE DARK CRYSTAL - Extra dialogue in several places throughout. (Ex: The line, "Oh, it will make you young again, Sire," is extended to include "...and as Emperor you deserve it." Possibly heard in 70mm mix, or could be from an older dialogue element, but definitely not in the theatrical 35mm mix.)
E.T.: THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL - 7.1 track appears to be sourced primarily from the 2002 Special Edition, with added sound effects in certain spots (which now don't correspond to anything). Most noticeable is the altered sound design and different ADR during the first medical scene. 2.0 track on the BD appears to be the original mix.
ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK - In the 5.1 remix, the music drops out for a few seconds after Snake pulls the President off the train (about an hour in). Music has been added to the Broadway scene. Sound effects are missing in the last shot as Snake destroys the cassette. Original mix included on MGM BD, but Scream Factory's 2.0 track is a downmix of the 5.1.
GOLDFINGER - On the "original" mono track, the end credits music fades out before the final drum hit that ends the song. (This is a bit of a cheat, as the "primary" 5.1 track does play the song out.)
GREASE - 5.1 track sourced from the 1998 remix with numerous changes throughout, including awkward music edits and the addition of reverb and background vocals to some songs (some of which are out-of-sync with picture).
THE GREAT MUPPET CAPER - Some minor differences during "Happiness Hotel," lyrics added to "Night Life," Muppets' "checklist" scene scored differently, and most noticeably, Miss Piggy's trademark "Hi-yaaaah" as she crashes through the window and leaps off the motorcycle is missing. (I think these changes have been on every VHS, DVD, and Blu-ray since the 1993 VHS release).
HALLOWEEN (1978) - During first Loomis scene, extra thunderclaps and rain are added throughout. Original mix included on some BDs (mono track on 35th Anniversary Edition is a mislabeled downmix of the remix; corrected on box set version).
HALLOWEEN 4: THE RETURN OF MICHAEL MYERS - Several sound effects are missing. Thunderclaps during opening credits, door buzzer sound in following scene, among others.
THE HOBBIT (1977) - (DVD only) Numerous sound effects are inexplicably missing throughout. (This is another cheat, since it's only on DVD, but the error is so glaring, it's worth listing.) Recent "Deluxe" DVD edition has the same issue.
JAWS - New sound effects added throughout the film. Original mix included on BD.
THE LAST STARFIGHTER - Music cue during the reveal of Beta's half-formed face is completely missing (it can be heard on the commentary track). Music cue could have been missing in 70mm mix, but seems unlikely.
LEGEND (US VERSION) - Missing music cue after Darkness's line "Something troubles me." Rough sound editing during transition into following scene (could be reflecting the 70mm mix).
MAD MAX - On the 5.1 "Australian English" track, when Max starts dragging Johnny by his handcuffed ankle, some of Johnny's groans are heard a few seconds later than they were originally, and his line "Careful, my ankle! My foot, man!" is missing. "Original Theatrical Australian English Mono" track on MGM Blu-ray is apparently a downmix of the 5.1 remix. 2.0 track on Scream Factory BD is a stereo downmix of the 5.1 remix. It's unclear if the MGM SE DVD contains the actual original Australian mono, as Johnny's line is there, but some of the sound effects seem to be from the remix and others seem to be from the original.
PINOCCHIO - A couple of lines were missing from the song "Give a Little Whistle" on both the 5.1 and the "original" mono. Corrected on later pressings.
PSYCHO (1960) - Some newly recorded foley in certain scenes, particularly in the shower scene, and also in the basement scene near the end. Original mix included on BD.
ROCKY - Near the end, the piano cue at the end of the final round (during the lines "Ain't gonna be no rematch," "Don't want one.") is missing. Original mix included on BD.
STAR TREK - THE ORIGINAL SERIES (Ep. "The Devil in the Dark") - About 28 minutes in, as Kirk sees the Horta coming through the wall, a few seconds of music is missing on both the 7.1 and "original" mono tracks. (Ep. "The Menagerie, Part II") - When Pike has a vision of himself on Rigel 7, in front the castle, extra music is heard on the 7.1 track that wasn't there before. Music on the mono track is as it always was before.
STAR TREK III: THE SEARCH FOR SPOCK - As the Bird of Prey is flying away from the Genesis Planet, a loud "cracking" sound as part of the planet breaks away is missing, and has been since the DVD releases. The effect can be heard underneath the Nimoy/Bennett commentary, but not the Moore/Taylor commentary. (This could be another 35mm/70mm difference.)
SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE - New sound effects added throughout the film. Original mix included on theatrical version BD, though possibly incorrectly encoded.
THE TERMINATOR - New sound effects added throughout the film, and some music cues are mixed differently.
THE TIME MACHINE (1960) - When George stops in 1917, as he's looking at the dust on his clocks, the creak just before we see the mice is much quieter than it was before. (According to IMDB, there was a 4-track stereo mix for this film in addition to the mono, so the difference could date back to that.)
THE WIZARD OF OZ - Dorothy's stutter "Oh Tot- Oh Toto" is truncated on both the 5.1 and the "original" mono. (This was possibly an error in the original sound design, but the fix is still an alteration.)
YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE - Numerous sound affects are added throughout the film. Original mix included on BD.
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