Cabinet of Dr. Caligari - Pixelation/Tiling issues (1 Viewer)

Got this blu today and am very disappointed. The overall image and restoration is nice but there is pixelation throughout the film in the dark areas of the screen. It is most pronounced in the dark areas when the camera irises in during closeups. If you have the disc, look at the start of chapter 3, it is very noticeable on the silhouetted backs of the audience watching Caligari on stage. I assume this is due to a mastering error. The bitrate dips very low in some places, often corresponding with the digital tiling. I'm shocked that Kino would release this title with such obvious issues. Unless I happen to have a disc from a bad batch, I assume all discs are affected. Can anyone else who has the disc confirm? I will probably return my disc to Amazon and hope that Kino issues a replacement disc.

Sounds like you are having problems with your player.. Perhaps try switching in a new HDMI cable.

bigshot said:

Sounds like you are having problems with your player.. Perhaps try switching in a new HDMI cable.

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I tried it on 2 players (Oppo 103 and a Sony). Oppo is connected to a projector, Sony to a 52" LCD. Exact same on both players and only on Caligari. And only in the darker areas in certain shots.

From the screen comparisons on DVDBeaver it looks to me like the gamma is lower on the Kino than it is on the MoC. A gamma set too low can reveal compression issues in dark areas like you are describing, because they appear brighter than they should. If you can adjust the gamma on your set, increasing it may help to hide the pixelation (and give what is likely a more accurate overall picture).

That makes sense, the gamma does look off. The blacks are too bright. I did lower my brightness setting and it helped, I didn't try messing with the gamma. If that is the case then Kino should re-issue the disc because the arifacts are very obvious. I'd still like to hear from someone else who has the disc.

I watched it yesterday on my 40" HD and it looked great for a movie almost a 100 years old! I didn't notice any pixelation at all. In his review, Robert Harris gave it an enthusiastic thumbs up.

Screen caps or even photos off your screen would be useful. You can still frame on the pixilation, right?

Could be the tints, this film has always had a sort of "pulsating" look to it for me.

bigshot said:

Screen caps or even photos off your screen would be useful. You can still frame on the pixilation, right?

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Yes, I'll snap a few pics tonight.

These are a bit crude because they are from my TV, but you can see what I am talking about.
The first shot is irising out from the woman and you can see digital artifacts in the black area. It is apparent on a projector, LCD TV and LCD computer monitor.

In the next pic you can see blocking in all of the silhouettes. Pic 3 is closer in on the boy with the top hat. It's more noticeable in motion.

View attachment 15059

This is a screenshot from the blu playing on my computer.

Thomas T said:

I watched it yesterday on my 40" HD and it looked great for a movie almost a 100 years old! I didn't notice any pixelation at all. In his review, Robert Harris gave it an enthusiastic thumbs up.

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Can you check the 2 scenes shown above on your disc? The first is at 40 mins 45 secs and the second at the start of chapter 3.

Again, I'm thinking gamma. What is your display currently set on?

Dave MJ said:

Can you check the 2 scenes shown above on your disc? The first is at 40 mins 45 secs and the second at the start of chapter 3.

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I didn't see anything like your screenshots in the second scene. Mine was unblemished though it looks like your brightness level was higher than on my monitor. On the first scene, I just chalked it up to wear and tear on the film (it IS almost a 100 years old) and since it's on the black and not the picture proper, I consider it so minor as not to bear thinking about. But hey, that's just me.

Using a JVC projector, an ALiS plasma and a 1080P LG plasma, I don't see any of the issues your LCD produces.What projector do you have?None of my laptops have BD drives. I could take this BD to my uncles and check his 47" LCD (ccfl) and see what it does. For my taste, even calibrated, that LCD is barely watchable.Is your 52" edge lit? Looks like it.

schan1269 said:

Using a JVC projector, an ALiS plasma and a 1080P LG plasma, I don't see any of the issues your LCD produces.What projector do you have?None of my laptops have BD drives. I could take this BD to my uncles and check his 47" LCD (ccfl) and see what it does. For my taste, even calibrated, that LCD is barely watchable.Is your 52" edge lit? Looks like it.

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I have an Epson 5020 projector, Samsung 52" LCD TV (not edge lit) and a Samsung LCD computer monitor. It shows up clearly on on all 3. None are set with high brightness, I calibrated with the Disney WOW disc. I keep the brightness a couple clicks lower than the calibration. The age of the film would not produce digital tiling artifacts which this definitely is.

I suppose I could just have a bad disc, but that seems unlikely.

Know anybody with a calibrated D-ILA/LCoS or DLP projector. Or a plasma?Samsung LCD have a long history of black banding problems.

The iris shot looks to me like they cleaned up dirt and speckles in the black areas by applying a video iris on top of the one in the film, just a little bit outside the diameter of the film one. If your black levels were set right, you wouldn't see that.

schan1269 said:

Know anybody with a calibrated D-ILA/LCoS or DLP projector. Or a plasma?Samsung LCD have a long history of black banding problems.

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It's not banding, it's pixilation which changes with each frame and is only present on certain scenes. And it's consistent and in the same places on all 3 systems I have tried. None of my other comparable silent titles (from Criterion for example) have the same issue. It's just on Caligari. So I am convinced it is a disc issue, not a a display or player issue.

You might see banding in the screenshot when it is not full screen. I am not seeing any banding issues on the blu.

bigshot said:

The iris shot looks to me like they cleaned up dirt and speckles in the black areas by applying a video iris on top of the one in the film, just a little bit outside the diameter of the film one. If your black levels were set right, you wouldn't see that.

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They look like pixilated compression artifacts and they move around frame to frame. It would be much more obvious if you saw it in motion, but I don't know of a reliable way to demonstrate it on here. My black levels are set correctly and it is visible on my Epson projector, Samsung TV, and Samsung and Dell computer monitors. And it's not on every iris and dark area, most of them are good. Those shots above are some of the worst examples. These artifacts should not be this bad regardless of black level and adjusting it is only partially effective

I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions, but this is not a problem with any of my displays. I am extremely, obsessively picky about PQ (hence why I noticed this). It is a problem with this disc. Whether it is just my disc or widespread is the question. I can't believe no one else has noticed it. I'll be returning the disc for a replacement and if that one still has the issue I will just forgo owning the title.