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A PEEK AT PLAYTIME (1 Viewer)

haineshisway

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Okay, I have just spent the last couple of hours comparing the new transfer of Playtime (from the new Critierion Tati box) against both the old BFI and previous Criterion. This is, of course, a new scan. I have read all the hand-wringing about the "new" color scheme and have seen the caps - the new transfer, according to the caps, seems to have a green wash over everything. And before anyone tells me that it's my computer monitor, for reference the previous BFI and Criterion Blu's caps at least resemble that transfer's very gray and metallic look. So, I was expecting a travesty of the highest order, a completely new blatantly different color scheme.

Let me get right to the point - no. There is no green wash over everything as those caps would indicate - nowhere near. Grays are gray, blues are blue. Are there differences? Yes. It's all in the skin tones - they are completely washed out in the previous BFI and Criterion discs and they are not in this new transfer. Does that adjustment to making the skin tones more accurate destroy the cold grays and blues? Of course not - at all. They are there every step of the way. Where Dr. Svet whatever his name is and whatever his credentials are says the new Criterion is darker than the previous transfer is incorrect. To my eyes, going back and forth between them on my two Oppo players, the new transfer looks a bit brighter. The color is fantastic - rich blues, more accurate skin tones, reds that pop, greens, but it's really not the drastic difference people are telling you. I saw a gorgeous 70mm print of Playtime four or five years ago at the Aero Theater in Santa Monica and this is what it looked like.

More importantly, something was very wrong with the previous Universal/Vivendi "restoration", clearly visible in both the previous BFI and Criterion discs - terrible and weird grain in the opening credits, the likes of which would never have been in a 65mm negative despite them being an optical, lines and scratches, moire patterns on the opening shot of the building and never quite sharp enough. Here we have a rock solid image, no scratches, normal 65mm optical grain (extremely light) and no moire ever. Anyone who was turned off by the reviews and caps posted should have no trepidation here - this is terrific every step of the way, from image to sound. It is my favorite film of Tati and I should think anyone who loves it will be very happy with what they see. You heard it here. :)
 

EddieLarkin

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I didn't really understand the colour complaints either Bruce. Just going off the caps the new colour looked much better to me. I am worried about the blacks though, which appear to be washed out compared to the old transfer:

Old: http://i.imgur.com/2dhHQ0u.jpg

New: http://i.imgur.com/j1qlKSq.jpg

(see bottom left)

Until I get the disc I won't be sure if it's a correctable colour space screw up or just poor blacks in general.

Everything else though looks A-OK. Check out the red head's hair in the same cap on the right!
 

haineshisway

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EddieLarkin said:
I didn't really understand the colour complaints either Bruce. Just going off the caps the new colour looked much better to me. I am worried about the blacks though, which appear to be washed out compared to the old transfer:

Old: http://i.imgur.com/2dhHQ0u.jpg

New: http://i.imgur.com/j1qlKSq.jpg

(see bottom left)

Until I get the disc I won't be sure if it's a correctable colour space screw up or just poor blacks in general.

Everything else though looks A-OK. Check out the red head's hair in the same cap on the right!
The blacks are great - not a problem with them in sight. For me, everything about this is better than the older transfer and that includes the blacks.
 

haineshisway

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Checking out Mon Oncle - BFI against the new Criterion. Interesting. The Criterion overall does look better - stability and contrast-wise. Again, on the Beaver, you'd think in two of the caps there that the entire transfer has been washed in green - not so. There are slight color differences with the BFI being a bit more saturated in the greens and with the Criterion in a couple of sequences having a slight yellow bias, but really slight. Overall though, I give it to the Criterion - it's sharper and just more pleasing to my eye. So far, this box is two for two. Look forward to seeing what the others look like.
 

OliverK

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Judging by the caps of Playtime on the other site the new version walks all over the old one. Yet it is downgraded for supposedly wrong colors. I have to shake my head about that as it looks like a tremendous improvement in all regards - detail, colors, grain structure, and therefore overall look.

No idea where the complaint about it being green comes from - compared to the older transfer that is bathed in blue it obviously would be more green but that is about all and of course a good thing.

The box is already on my list for the next big Criterion sale.
 

RolandL

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Jacques Tati requested for the showing of Playtime at the Paris Empire Cinerama theatre, that the Cinerama screen be removed and a flat screen installed. It was an exclusive engagement, the only theatre in Paris and played from December 17th 1967 to July 16th 1968.

play-time-playtime-french-advance-country-of-origin-arthouse-drama-comedy-rare-original-movie-poster.jpg
 

bruceames

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Black levels do look better in that old version comparison pic above, and it looks a litter brighter as well (not to mention slightly sharper). I tend to agree that the old color scheme fits the character of this movie better. But to get a more informed opinion I will have to buy the set and watch the new version myself (I'll wait until the next flash sale).
 

Douglas R

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RolandL said:
Jacques Tati requested for the showing of Playtime at the Paris Empire Cinerama theatre, that the Cinerama screen be removed and a flat screen installed. It was an exclusive engagement, the only theatre in Paris and played from December 17th 1967 to July 16th 1968.

play-time-playtime-french-advance-country-of-origin-arthouse-drama-comedy-rare-original-movie-poster.jpg
Thank you for that poster. I was in Paris when the film opened and foolishly didn't see the film then. By the time it opened in London it had been cut.
 

OliverK

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bruceames said:
Black levels do look better in that old version comparison pic above, and it looks a litter brighter as well (not to mention slightly sharper). I tend to agree that the old color scheme fits the character of this movie better. But to get a more informed opinion I will have to buy the set and watch the new version myself (I'll wait until the next flash sale).
I think that the intentions of the director and his cinematographer at the time of release should be respected and not what we feel is appropriate.

I wonder if the Criterion supplements or booklet give any insights about the changed color scheme?

It seems that there are some of us waiting for the flash sale!
 

Lord Dalek

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Still find it rather odd that the video release of this is stereo only when Tati used that experimental 8-track system for the 70mm release.
 

bruceames

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OliverK said:
I think that the intentions of the director and his cinematographer at the time of release should be respected and not what we feel is appropriate.

I wonder if the Criterion supplements or booklet give any insights about the changed color scheme?

It seems that there are some of us waiting for the flash sale!
I didn't realize there is proof that the new color scheme was the director's intent. If that's the case then of course that trumps all.

Yeah I only buy on flash sales now. I just buy six months worth at a time now so I always have plenty to watch until the next one. Of course if I snooze and miss one then I'll have to buy during the next B&N sale to tide me over, but it costs me about $4 more per title (as they charge sales tax and Criterion has the rewards points).
 

Tama

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bruceames said:
Black levels do look better in that old version comparison pic above, and it looks a litter brighter as well (not to mention slightly sharper). I tend to agree that the old color scheme fits the character of this movie better. But to get a more informed opinion I will have to buy the set and watch the new version myself (I'll wait until the next flash sale).
I've looked around but haven't yet found any info on if a reference was used to determine the color timing of Playtime for the new remaster. On a personal level I like what I see from the new remastered version color wise over the older disc from what I've seen in the caps. Also the reason the older version looks slightly sharper is because it has been artificially sharpened. Both in motion and on screen caps edge halos are clearly obvious. It actually gives the overall image a flatter appearance in motion.
 

haineshisway

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bruceames said:
Black levels do look better in that old version comparison pic above, and it looks a litter brighter as well (not to mention slightly sharper). I tend to agree that the old color scheme fits the character of this movie better. But to get a more informed opinion I will have to buy the set and watch the new version myself (I'll wait until the next flash sale).
Well, then, if that's what you're seeing then the caps are completely useless. I have watched BOTH discs side by side - the Criterion is sharper, the blacks are blacker and it is slightly brighter. You'd think at some point people would just stop making judgments on caps until they'd actually seen the transfer. It does no one any good.
 

bruceames

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haineshisway said:
Well, then, if that's what you're seeing then the caps are completely useless. I have watched BOTH discs side by side - the Criterion is sharper, the blacks are blacker and it is slightly brighter. You'd think at some point people would just stop making judgments on caps until they'd actually seen the transfer. It does no one any good.

Opinion is sharply divided on the subject and I'd rather not go there. In my experience though the amount of difference reflected in caps (good caps) is almost always confirmed by first hand comparisons in motion. Otherwise sure, then they would be useless. But to me they're not. To each their own. I would also tend to place greater stock in Dr. Svet's opinion than some others.
 

haineshisway

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bruceames said:
Opinion is sharply divided on the subject and I'd rather not go there. In my experience though the amount of difference reflected in caps (good caps) is almost always confirmed by first hand comparisons in motion. Otherwise sure, then they would be useless. But to me they're not. To each their own. I would also tend to place greater stock in Dr. Svet's opinion than some others.
Why would you place greater stock in someone like Dr. Svet? He has no film credentials whatsoever that I know of. He is no different than ANY "reviewer" on that site, or any site. He's a guy with an opinion and I, for one, find his opinions specious for the most part, uninformed and based on nothing, and harmful at worst. But sure, believe who you like and judge on caps. You should have no reason whatsoever to buy this new transfer, unless you don't have the other Criterion Blu-ray. And the world goes round :) Those who know me have come to learn they can usually trust my opinions on these things, and those who don't like what I have to say, don't. Thus it has been, thus it will always be. The same holds true for Mr. Harris. Some listen, some disagree.

I should think the number of people who post bad thoughts after seeing caps, only to come back and say the transfer looks great should speak volumes. But it doesn't. And how do you know the caps posted in this thread are "good." That is the problem.

But whatever works is what works!

Happy Halloween everyone. I'm dressing up like Dr. Svet.
 

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