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Next level projection mapping (1 Viewer)

Chuck Anstey

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In The Running Man the big fight at the end between Ben Richards (Arnold), Amber, and Captain Freedom (Jessie Ventura) in the movie was shown as real-time face mapping of Ben Richards and Amber onto stunt people to fake the fight.
 

Sam Posten

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Huh. I'm pretty into effects tech and I don't remember hearing about that. I think they did something similar when Oliver Reed died during filming of Gladiator.
 

Chuck Anstey

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There is a misunderstanding. It wasn't done by the filmmakers for the movie, it was done "in movie" and so shows a future where they could use one person to do the movements and then map another person's face / body onto that person realtime, hence Killian was able to fake Ben Richards death in a death match with Captain Freedom even though Ben Richards was really with the rebels. That's why the woman's line "You didn't have to kill them.", meaning the stunt people portraying Ben and Amber and why the team was picked up for another season. So The Running Man was a glimpse into the real future.
 

Cees Alons

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Sam Posten said:
Is completely CGI

Yes and no.

The CGI version is "projected" on Andy Serkis playing the part (and delivering the voice - actually the voices) while wearing a sort of surface 2D wire suit.

He once described it as getting the make-up after, instead of before playing the part on location (or stage).


Cees
 

Johnny Angell

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Some of the comments have gotten me confused. I've always thought projection mapping consisted of projecting an image onto a subject, even a living subject to produce effects. Apparently it gets pretty big around Halloween time as people project images onto their houses or other subjects.

What I've always thought Andy Serkis does and was also done for Avatar is that actors' motions are captured in fine detail, including faces, but beyond the motion capture costumes they wear, they are not altered. Stuff is not projected onto them. The motion capture data is then used to create King Kong or the Navi.

Some comments here are saying the effects were projected onto actors. Can you clear this up for me.
 

Sam Posten

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Yes and no.

The CGI version is "projected" on Andy Serkis playing the part (and delivering the voice - actually the voices) while wearing a sort of surface 2D wire suit.

He once described it as getting the make-up after, instead of before playing the part on location (or stage).


Cees

I don’t think this is correct at all. I’d love to see articles on that. They do record facial motion capture by projecting light at the face similar to how an iPhone X can but the cgi is not overlaid on his face.
 

Cees Alons

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In the case of Gollum (and Cesar in The Planet of the Apes) Andy Serkis played the part - and then after the takes, his motions, his voice, his facial expressions, were replicated on CGI versions of Gollum and Cesar (who don't exist, of course). In a way it's still totally him, but it just no longer looks like him. I don't know how to put the effect properly in words, that's why I used "projected" (inside quotes).

In this youTube-clip you can see some of it (beware: if you absolutely hate politics, there's some present-day fun you may not want to see, it's at the end; just cut it after you've seen Cesar).




Here's another and older explanation of the method(s):




Cees
 

Sam Posten

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That's not projecting onto his face. It's a green screen effect where you can have as many copies in the scene along with the original actor as you'd like.

They could even replace his own face with Gollum's in the resulting video. But it isn't being projected back onto him in the real world.

Apple has real time face swap on the iPhone X now. It's in the video output. It doesn't project back onto your face.
 

Cees Alons

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......But it isn't being projected back onto him in the real world.

True. It's on the film.

It is "projected" (replaces his image) by CGI in the frames of the movie they made of him.
He himself compared it to wearing an ape-suit and having an ape-face make-up (which we would now consider ridiculous) and described it as getting make-up and being dressed after the performance instead of before it.


Cees
 

Sam Posten

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Right, but that in no way is related to projection mapping. Projection mapping uses front projectors to put light into real world locations temporarily changing their look. What you are talking about is real time animation which creates characters in a virtual world. Those characters can be displayed on a panel or projected, but they are not projected back onto the capture subject.

Not that that can't be done too! But the tech to do so is not mature and only works with the subjects own dimensions. You can't make the subject look bigger or smaller.
 

Johnny Angell

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In the case of Gollum (and Cesar in The Planet of the Apes) Andy Serkis played the part - and then after the takes, his motions, his voice, his facial expressions, were replicated on CGI versions of Gollum and Cesar (who don't exist, of course). In a way it's still totally him, but it just no longer looks like him. I don't know how to put the effect properly in words, that's why I used "projected" (inside quotes).

In this youTube-clip you can see some of it (beware: if you absolutely hate politics, there's some present-day fun you may not want to see, it's at the end; just cut it after you've seen Cesar).




Here's another and older explanation of the method(s):




Cees

OMG, the tweets were funny. I had always assumed the his voice was heavily processed, but Andy does it live and it really sounds like Gollum!
 

Cees Alons

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Ha, ha, yes.

He did something similar in a BBC show, years ago, when he and Peter Jackson were interviewed.
They spoke normally for some time, until Jackson said something more or less remarkable. Andy reacted "He'ss the Massster", or so, in a perfect Gollem voice. Hilarious effect, massive surprise and laughter all through the audience.

The way Andy Serkis sees it, he is just playing the part.
In yet another movie (I just can't remember the title just now) he did the same thing, playing the part in a suit with coordinate markings all over it. There were takes from it in a program I saw. I don't know if he wore something like that in the movies we're discussing here.


Cees
 

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