Old Receiver better than the New One (1 Viewer)

DwayneHoward · Aug 17, 2014

Over 20 year ago, when I was in college, I bought a Kenwood KR-V8040 Pro-Logic receiver and a pair of DCM TimeFrame 600's. Music and movies was how I entertained myself between work and school

Yesterday, I bought a Yamaha RX-A8030. And I'm asking myself why? I'm blown away by how dead this receiver is ! Need to figure out what happened so I can replace it with something worth having.

With the 20-year-old KW, I could select Bypass to get away from any form of DSP. I had A speakers, B speakers, and A&B speakers to choose from. I had a simple "Loudness" dial that helped bring punch to the sound, even at low volume levels. Combined with my Onkyo EQ, I could dial it in to really excellent sound. When I added 2 powered subwoofers, I had killer sound, but couldn't go past 25% volume because of the reduction in impedence causing overload.

With this new $800 amp, I actually have Subwoofer outputs, but no sub power compared to bridging them to the old system. I had to rig my EQ to work with this POS. I have no simple control or anything else to bring the sound to life. I had to select some "Analog" DSP setting

to get anything close to sounding like music. Supposedly, I have nearly 800 watts of power to drive the TM's, subs, and the Klipsch rear speakers I added. Lamo ! WTF is this ? I can't get the punch, but have distortion I've never had before.

All I need is great sounding music and decent sounding surround for movies, and couldn't care less about all the other crap. Anyone know of an amp worth having, or should I find more creative ways to make use of my old Kenwood ?

JohnRice · Aug 17, 2014

You seem to be putting things together incorrectly and don't understand what things are called. If your subs are "powered", then they are powered. They don't need other power.It sounds like maybe "good" sound to you is heavily EQ applied. So nothing else is likely to be what you consider to be good.

schan1269 · Aug 17, 2014

I have TF600 with TF 350 and a surroundscape that used to be run on a 6080. It was balls to the wall. Now have an Onkyo 708. Still balls to the wall.Learn some correct terminology and we can help you figure out what you've done wrong.

gene c · Aug 17, 2014

New receivers are very complicated compared to your 20 year old Kenwood. You need to sit down and read the manual to see all that it has to offer. New receivers have "Zone's" instead of A and B speakers. They also have their own internal equilizers (Yamaha calls theirs YPAO) which they can adjust by themselves to smooth out room acoustics. Or you can adjust them manually if you prefer. Some also have seperate bass and treble controls for each channel so you have many different ways to screw with the sound

.

The volume controls are also quite a bit different changing from Absolute (0 to 99) to .Relative (-80 to +18) They're more like an earthquake scale starting very soft and really ramping up as you turn the knob to the right.

But you need to learn how to setup the silly thing properly which can take a week or two, sometimes longer. You went straight from a 428 Cobra Jet with a big 'ol Holly carburetor to a 4.6 Modular with double overhead cams and electronic fuel injection. Adjusting things the old way just doesn't work anymore. Give it some time.

TimmyBosko · Aug 18, 2014

gene c said:
New receivers are very complicated compared to your 20 year old Kenwood. You need to sit down and read the manual to see all that it has to offer. New receivers have "Zone's" instead of A and B speakers. They also have their own internal equilizers (Yamaha calls theirs YPAO) which they can adjust by themselves to smooth out room acoustics. Or you can adjust them manually if you prefer. Some also have seperate bass and treble controls for each channel so you have many different ways to screw with the sound .

The volume controls are also quite a bit different changing from Absolute (0 to 99) to .Relative (-80 to +18) They're more like an earthquake scale starting very soft and really ramping up as you turn the knob to the right.

But you need to learn how to setup the silly thing properly which can take a week or two, sometimes longer. You went straight from a 428 Cobra Jet with a big 'ol Holly carburetor to a 4.6 Modular with double overhead cams and electronic fuel injection. Adjusting things the old way just doesn't work anymore. Give it some time.

Exactly this!! I went from a old (1989 I believe) Technics receiver, EQ and CD player with Bose AM 5 acoustamass speaker system to a Yamaha RX-V477, 2 Energy CB-20 Fronts and a Klipsch Sub Woofer and all I can say is Wow just Wow.. I never knew any music or movies could sound so friggin good. I am more of a 80's hair band kind of guy but my wife likes country. I was never fond of country until I got this new HT system. Now I love listening to Country as well as my music. I don't necessarily love the country song it self but wow the bass, the highs the voice all of it.. It's just amazing..

Once you get your new system figured out you will see what I am talking about. These forums are a great resource.. Don't be afraid to ask..

DwayneHoward · Aug 18, 2014

Appreciate you guys taking the time...

I definitely jumped the gun on this post. I bought the unit without the remote so have practically no access to the controls until I receive it in a week or so.

Ya, the subs are powered - on the Kenwood, I was connecting one to the A speakers, L&R, and one to the B speakers L&R. I have no specs to tell me how this affects impedance. Running in parallel, output was fantastic, but my Kenwood would go into protect mode past 1/4 volume. So, I hooked everything up serial, and the output dropped to zilch - really dead sound.

I really didn't want to replace the Kenwood - it's a great receiver. Just trying to add subwoofers for the first time, and it created problems. Anyway, I'll enjoy having Surround sound over the old ProLogic, IF I can get good sound quality listening to music.

Anyway - thanks for the advice. Lemme get the remote so I can start working with the menu. I'll repost later.

DwayneHoward · Aug 18, 2014

schan -

I have TF 600's in front. Been great speakers. The subs seem to reflect off the large panels with that parabolic rear - sounds like all the base is coming from the DCM's.

In the back I have a couple Klipsch ref's I just bought. Nothing fancy.

BUT - I'll need to repair my Timeframes ! One of the 6.5's is flapping in the breeze. I'll need some advice, if you know anyone with experience. How to find a "matching" replacement driver, whether or not I have to replace the crossovers also, and hopefully be an upgrade to the speaker system. Lemme know what you know. I'll send you some gold stars or something.

JohnRice · Aug 18, 2014

DwayneHoward said:
Ya, the subs are powered - on the Kenwood, I was connecting one to the A speakers, L&R, and one to the B speakers L&R.

Then you are probably connecting it wrong. You can sometimes connect a powered sub to speaker level outputs, but you shouldn't. If your new receiver thinks it has a powered sub connected, which it probably does if you bought it used, that is the reason the sound is flat. There is no bass getting through, no matter how many subs you connect, if it isn't connected correctly.

You can NOT hook up a bunch of stuff to a modern receiver, with no remote available, and expect anything approaching acceptable sound.

DwayneHoward · Aug 20, 2014

JohnRice -

Thanks for the input. The old system was a Kenwood Pro Logic with no sub outputs. I had to connect the new powered subs to the speaker lines: one to A, and one to B. I had great sound, but the receiver was cutting off at 1/4 volume because of the drop in impedence/overload on the amps.

When I bought the new receiver, subs hook up to the sub outs. Front and rear speaker connected, no problems. But rather than lively, high output sound, it's hollow, flat, and over-refined because of all the digital hoops.

When I get the remote, I'll definitely be working through the system details. I'll post the results when I actually get to work the menu.

Thanks, man.

gene c · Aug 20, 2014

Also, if you have a two channel setup try the old fashioned analog connection and scratch the digital one. Sometimes it just sounds better. Not always, but sometimes.

DwayneHoward · Aug 22, 2014

Ok,

Got my remote today, went through the setup menus, adjusted for the distances, set internal crossover, etc. It sounds pretty tight.

It has good balance and timing, everything seems right.

I've got it running through my Onkyo EQ. Will try to figure out a way to switch between that and the internal EQ to compare output and quality.

So,
I apologize for my first post. Rather than dissing my new Yamaha unit, I should have been praising the old one. The fact that old Kenwood was handling a 4-ohm load, front and rear speakers, and 2 subs wired to the speaker connects says a lot for that old Receiver. When I hooked up the new Yamaha and wasn't totally blown away, all it really means is the 20-year-old was doing a hell of a job, basically putting-out most of what I'm getting now, at only 1/4 volume.

Basically, the new unit has given me actual surround sound(which is cool) and the HD video throughput. It hasn't added much to audio quality, which is what I'm wanting. Have to look now at adding power and other speakers.

Possibilities I'm considering:
1) new towers up front(would have to build them myself) or beefier rear speakers with good mid-bass.
2) building a new sub
3) adding an external amp to drive any of the above separately

I appreciate all the education I'm getting on this forum. If you have any more advice, or your own experience, thanks in advance.

TimmyBosko · Aug 25, 2014

DwayneHoward said:
Ok,

Got my remote today, went through the setup menus, adjusted for the distances, set internal crossover, etc. It sounds pretty tight. It has good balance and timing, everything seems right.

I've got it running through my Onkyo EQ. Will try to figure out a way to switch between that and the internal EQ to compare output and quality.

I apologize for my first post. Rather than dissing my new Yamaha unit, I should have been praising the old one. The fact that old Kenwood was handling a 4-ohm load, front and rear speakers, and 2 subs wired to the speaker connects says a lot for that old Receiver. When I hooked up the new Yamaha and wasn't totally blown away, all it really means is the 20-year-old was doing a hell of a job, basically putting-out most of what I'm getting now, at only 1/4 volume.

Basically, the new unit has given me actual surround sound(which is cool) and the HD video throughput. It hasn't added much to audio quality, which is what I'm wanting. Have to look now at adding power and other speakers.

Possibilities I'm considering:
1) new towers up front(would have to build them myself) or beefier rear speakers with good mid-bass.
2) building a new sub
3) adding an external amp to drive any of the above separately

I appreciate all the education I'm getting on this forum. If you have any more advice, or your own experience, thanks in advance.

For your audio quality.. What I did with my Yamaha setup was after getting speakers/sub placed where I wanted them, I put the Sub crossover to bypass and
the power up to 50%. Set the corssover in the Rcvr to 80.

Ran the YPAO program. Unhooked that and started testing how it sounded. I did not use the EQ settings that I could change.. I used the pre configured one that was set by YPAO (PEQ I believe).

Then just started making what ever tweaks as needed. The YPAO had my sub at -10 to I bumped it up quite a bit as I prefer more Sub/Bass than most folks.
I have bookshelf fronts so in the Rcvr speaker configuration set those to small.

I use the Prologic preset and wow.. what a fantastic sound.

Hope you can use some of this and it helps.

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